Moving on from Vallejo Model Air

[7thSon]

So I have the whole line of Vallejo Model Air paints since about 5 years back, and I've been painting with them using a brush primarily.
I just recently picked up painting minis again after a few years break, and started using my VMA's again.
The thing is, I realized I'm not quite enjoying painting with them, at least not for basecoats or anywhere where I feel that quick and easy coverage would be nice - the VMA's take 4-5 layers to get coverage in most cases.
I confirmed this when I grabbed a VGC bottle I happened to have and compared painting with that to VMA - instant coverage with 2 coats or less... ahhhh.. thats what I think paints should be like.

In short I am looking to get another range of paints for brushwork, I will still keep the VMA's because they're awesome for airbrushing once I get around to that.
However I'm not married to the idea of VGC just because I have a few bottles of it, I've been reading a lot of good things about Scale75, their Scalecolor and Fantasy & Games range both seem to have gotten very good reviews.

So to my list of thoughts and questions:

• I asked Scale75 if there is any difference between the Scalecolor paints and the Fantasy & Games range, they said there is none except for the hues. However I recall some people writing about Fantasy & Games drying to a glossier finish than Scalecolor. Does anyone have first hand experience of these paints and can shed some words about how they are in comparison?
• I've ordered single bottles to sample paints from P3, Scalecolor, Fantasy & Games as well as a metallic from DarkStar. Is there anything besides the way the paint handles and works that I should know, or try to observe, things like "Scalecolor takes a lot of shaking to get it mixed properly" which I think I read somewhere.
• Has anyone compared VGC and Scale75 paints? How are they in comparison to eachother? I've read that VGC is pretty hit and miss when it comes to quality consistency, is this still true today.

I only paint single models for display, so if anyone has any general recommendations about paints for that, I'll gladly take any advice.

 

[Dragonsreach]

All the above are excellent paints, my only proviso is that certain Scale 75 paints do require a great deal more agitation due to spreading easily in between use. The Black I picked up as an emergency repair paint was brilliant a first use but standing around has led it to separate.

I’ve also found that mixing VMA & VMC matching colours gives a better flow from brushes and a lovely smooth finish.

 

[MAXXxxx]

scalecolor vs fantasy and game: different hues and fantasy-n-games is satin compared to the scalecolor's matt finish (but if you are like me, and varnish the finished models, then it's a non-issue)

- to know: shake them like crazy , and someone suggested, that the excess binder that's on the top could be get rid of (just push until paint comes out of the bottle, instead of the clear liquid) and them the rest behaves better, but.... I don't know if in the long run it'll be missed, so for now I stick with the shaking instead of removing excess.

VGC vs scalecolor: just a reminder it's only my opinion, but VGC sucks (actually compared to everything else, so P3, scale-s, coat'd'arms, gw, vac, vmc all are better)

Even though not liked for some reason, but at least for basecoats the GW-base line is brilliant even if pricey. I like to use them much better for that than any other paints. (but for transitions, etc I stick with the usual VMC-VAC-Scale75-Rackham-P3-s).
Plus if in the Eu try out some of the "Schmicke" paints, they are smooth (originally for AB, but great for anything besides basecoats)

 

[7thSon]

All the above are excellent paints, my only proviso is that certain Scale 75 paints do require a great deal more agitation due to spreading easily in between use. The Black I picked up as an emergency repair paint was brilliant a first use but standing around has led it to separate.

I’ve also found that mixing VMA & VMC matching colours gives a better flow from brushes and a lovely smooth finish.

Have you experience that the separation of the Scale75 paint can be "fatal"? That is to say, have you always been able to mix it back into action, or does it risk congealing permanently?
My VMA metallics seem to have had a really bad time in their pots the past few years when they've just been sitting, and getting them truly mixed again is not possible since a lot of the pigment has congealed.

 

[7thSon]

scalecolor vs fantasy and game: different hues and fantasy-n-games is satin compared to the scalecolor's matt finish (but if you are like me, and varnish the finished models, then it's a non-issue)

- to know: shake them like crazy , and someone suggested, that the excess binder that's on the top could be get rid of (just push until paint comes out of the bottle, instead of the clear liquid) and them the rest behaves better, but.... I don't know if in the long run it'll be missed, so for now I stick with the shaking instead of removing excess.

VGC vs scalecolor: just a reminder it's only my opinion, but VGC sucks (actually compared to everything else, so P3, scale-s, coat'd'arms, gw, vac, vmc all are better)

Even though not liked for some reason, but at least for basecoats the GW-base line is brilliant even if pricey. I like to use them much better for that than any other paints. (but for transitions, etc I stick with the usual VMC-VAC-Scale75-Rackham-P3-s).
Plus if in the Eu try out some of the "Schmicke" paints, they are smooth (originally for AB, but great for anything besides basecoats)

Would you care to elaborate on why VGC sucks? I only have a few bottles, but they seem okay (curious as my experience with VGC is very limited)?
I'm really leaning heavily towards getting Scale75 paints next, I just haven't decided on whether it should be the Scalecolor range or Fantasy & Games.
I do varnish my model after painting, but getting a super matte finish before varnishing would be pretty nice too.
Other than the difference in finish after drying and the hues, Scalecolor and Fantasy & Games are the same?

 

[MAXXxxx]

- VGC: the quality of it dropped around 2010. Simply the paint is not a fine as it was, separation and bad batches are more common (or I just have really bad luck with them)
- for some reason (most likely because the binder/thinner used) it's hard to impossible to use them for some techniques (wet-in-wet blending is a pain with them)
- AB, clogs it too easily, while I have not this problem with other brands (including VMC, VMA so it's only a game color thing) even if the VGC is thinned way more than the others

personally I think getting whole paint lines if a waste of money and space. For example from the 64+ colors in the scale color you'll use about 20-30 regularly, the others will slowly dry out in their bottles. It's the same for all brands, not Scale specific (This is why I don't see the point in buying the 160+ color GW mega paint set, the AP mega paint set, the different 72 color Vallejo sets, etc).
So I think it's better to get the colors you like instead of buying the whole display and not even touching half the colors in the following few years.
BUT... both Scale75 bundles look sooo good. Hard to keep buying it just for that look.

Yeah other than those 2 they are pretty much the same.

Maybe the best setup: buy the scalecolors range and then the individual colors you like or need from the FnG one (or vice versa).

 

[7thSon]

- VGC: the quality of it dropped around 2010. Simply the paint is not a fine as it was, separation and bad batches are more common (or I just have really bad luck with them)
- for some reason (most likely because the binder/thinner used) it's hard to impossible to use them for some techniques (wet-in-wet blending is a pain with them)
- AB, clogs it too easily, while I have not this problem with other brands (including VMC, VMA so it's only a game color thing) even if the VGC is thinned way more than the others

personally I think getting whole paint lines if a waste of money and space. For example from the 64+ colors in the scale color you'll use about 20-30 regularly, the others will slowly dry out in their bottles. It's the same for all brands, not Scale specific (This is why I don't see the point in buying the 160+ color GW mega paint set, the AP mega paint set, the different 72 color Vallejo sets, etc).
So I think it's better to get the colors you like instead of buying the whole display and not even touching half the colors in the following few years.
BUT... both Scale75 bundles look sooo good. Hard to keep buying it just for that look.

Yeah other than those 2 they are pretty much the same.

Maybe the best setup: buy the scalecolors range and then the individual colors you like or need from the FnG one (or vice versa).

Thank you for the insight into your experiences with VGC, I think I'll opt for Scale75 based on that.

I understand your position on getting entire paint sets, but at the same time I feel it's nice to have the whole range to choose from, and to be honest - I dont think a whole paint set from Scale75 or similarly priced are bank-breaking.
Maybe the biggest problem is that there doesn't seem to be any paints in those ranges I don't like
However I've been looking at the swatches for both Scale75 ranges, and Scalecolor seems a bit like VMA - there are a lot of greys, browns and greens (I don't think I need 6-10 different of each to be honest). So that kind of pushes me more toward Fantasy & Games.
I will definitely test both paints once I get the single bottles I ordered for sampling, but just looking at the ranges I think Fantasy & Games will serve me very well by just adding some metallics in the long run. I would have wished that the Fantasy & Games range also dried to a super matte finish, then I think this would be more of a no-brainer.

Do you know if Scalecolor and Fantasy & Games are equal when used in an airbrush as well?

 

[Chaotic Creations]

Well my entire painting life I have used GW paints only, but now I have come back to the hobby after a long time with the age of internet (haha that’s right, it was that long ago when I used to paint) there is so much more options available... my next paint purchase will be the Scale75 skin tone set, these colours look great. I can’t comment on any other brands, but I believe no matter what brand you get it will take a bit of playing around to get them working how you want them... I find with the GW’s every colour acts different in how you have to thin and work them... I’m guessing it would be the same for other brands too...
for me it will just be trial and error

 

[7thSon]

Well my entire painting life I have used GW paints only, but now I have come back to the hobby after a long time with the age of internet (haha that’s right, it was that long ago when I used to paint) there is so much more options available... my next paint purchase will be the Scale75 skin tone set, these colours look great. I can’t comment on any other brands, but I believe no matter what brand you get it will take a bit of playing around to get them working how you want them... I find with the GW’s every colour acts different in how you have to thin and work them... I’m guessing it would be the same for other brands too...
for me it will just be trial and error

I think you're right, for me one of the key things to get in my next paints is better coverage than VMA, since I really feel that it's not a lot of fun putting on 5+ coats of any given color.
In general I think its exactly like you said, you need to learn the behavior of the paints you have and use.

 

[Chaotic Creations]

Well I find the new GW paint system (I say that cause the line is new to me) base colours are great for obtaining a smooth opaque cover in just a couple of coats... then you could go back to the airs for your glazes etc...
but just face it your going to find it hard with airs to get uniform colour without heaps and heaps of coats without spraying them, because they are formulated to be super thin to prevent clogging up in the gun... good luck in your adventure trying out new brands, I know personally im excited to experiment with new things

 

[Ddmkr]

Scale75 paints are great and I would highly recommend them if you're aiming for display quality painting, but it's best to order one/two single colours (if you have that possibility) to check if you like the way they behave.
I'm using many brands (Scale75, Vallejo (MC/MA/GC), P3, Citadel, Warcolours, Army Painter) and I like VGC the least of the bunch. They seperate very quickly on the palette, their pigmentation is not that good and I find them to be very watery straight out from the bottle (not that it's a bad thing, sometimes I just prefer to start with thicker paint and control dilution level myself) but some of the colours are nice, I'll give them that. I think there are better alternatives than VCG.

 

[7thSon]

Scale75 paints are great and I would highly recommend them if you're aiming for display quality painting, but it's best to order one/two single colours (if you have that possibility) to check if you like the way they behave.
I'm using many brands (Scale75, Vallejo (MC/MA/GC), P3, Citadel, Warcolours, Army Painter) and I like VGC the least of the bunch. They seperate very quickly on the palette, their pigmentation is not that good and I find them to be very watery straight out from the bottle (not that it's a bad thing, sometimes I just prefer to start with thicker paint and control dilution level myself) but some of the colours are nice, I'll give them that. I think there are better alternatives than VCG.

Great to get another recommendation for Scale75. Just out of curiosity; what brand do you personally favor most?

 

[shaun5603]

I have and use scale both color line and fantasy line. Can’t say enough good things a about them. There ink set is allso a great addition to paint collection.

 

[7thSon]

I have and use scale both color line and fantasy line. Can’t say enough good things a about them. There ink set is allso a great addition to paint collection.

Do you have any preference for one over the other? Pros and cons?

 

[Ddmkr]

Great to get another recommendation for Scale75. Just out of curiosity; what brand do you personally favor most?

Scale75 is my favourite.

 

[shaun5603]

Do you have any preference for one over the other? Pros and cons?

They both serve a purpose and work well together. Fantasy line tend to be little thinner and have better flow to them. There Brighter and end up with stain finish. Per there website it’s a different formula. You can mix them together to create interesting hues, but they end up with a stain finish. Scale color is super matt and rich, brush or AB work you will give good coverage. Where your layer either range over top the color blend nicely and you can see the transitions.

I bought both collection sets, which gives me a great range of colors, and it’s not overwhelming and waste. I normally would only paint few days out of the year dude to traveling months on end for work. So dealing with separation issues was big concern. For the scale color there my older set about 4yrs now the separate more than fantasy line. Adding a steel ball and few drops of scale thinner to them and using a paint mixer there good as new. Fantasy line (2yr) I haven’t had a issue with, mainly I cause I got injured and stuck stateside so I have more time to paint and do upkeep on the paints.

On to some cons
Had a bit of learning curve to them on thinning and AB work, but I over came it. It was painful at first but once I spent enough time with them and learn how the behave on wet pallet dry pallet and AB work, I won’t be switching to other brand any time soon.
They need to be shaken/mixed more than any other brand out there. I think anyone who has used them will agree to this lol. I invested in a paint shaker, and dropped steel ball into them it helps. When you shake/mix them if you see clear liquid coming out first, remixe them. That’s the binder. Fantasy line doesn’t have that issue as bad as color line does.

Thinning for AB work, I have .5 for most work, so on average I do 10 drop paint 4-5 drop thinner, (optional 1 drop flow improver)
.2 for shade highlights. I do 10 drop paint 6-7 drop thinner and work up in glazes.

Brush work you can thin with water no issues, or liquidtex glaze medium it’s same thing as any model paint brand medium just you get more and it’s cheaper.
fansty lines are thinner so you require more layers, but still take to thinning with out running and breaking down.

metals, are some of the best. For both brush and AB. I use them and AK extreme metals. Back to scale metals they super fine Pigmente won’t clog AB even my .2 also there no enamel so no issues with smell or extra thinner cleaners.

Scale75usa is there stateside store, great customer service. Only thing they don’t always have the spray primer I think it’s due to supply issue as getting to USA isn’t easy or cost effective.

Last thing I add, is if you decide to go with them check out there painting guide the steampunk one great learning tool. There new book the painting made easy isn’t as good in my opinion. I have both but felt I learn more from the steampunk one.

 

[MAXXxxx]

Last thing I add, is if you decide to go with them check out there painting guide the steampunk one great learning tool. There new book the painting made easy isn’t as good in my opinion. I have both but felt I learn more from the steampunk one.

The painting easy is just a collection of small tutorials from the paint sets (flesh, nmm, red, green, ...)
The steampunk one is great and I wait for the next one (busts).

aaand little off, but both easy and steampunk are available on the net as non-official pdf-s.

 

[7thSon]

They both serve a purpose and work well together. Fantasy line tend to be little thinner and have better flow to them. There Brighter and end up with stain finish. Per there website it’s a different formula. You can mix them together to create interesting hues, but they end up with a stain finish. Scale color is super matt and rich, brush or AB work you will give good coverage. Where your layer either range over top the color blend nicely and you can see the transitions.

I bought both collection sets, which gives me a great range of colors, and it’s not overwhelming and waste. I normally would only paint few days out of the year dude to traveling months on end for work. So dealing with separation issues was big concern. For the scale color there my older set about 4yrs now the separate more than fantasy line. Adding a steel ball and few drops of scale thinner to them and using a paint mixer there good as new. Fantasy line (2yr) I haven’t had a issue with, mainly I cause I got injured and stuck stateside so I have more time to paint and do upkeep on the paints.

On to some cons
Had a bit of learning curve to them on thinning and AB work, but I over came it. It was painful at first but once I spent enough time with them and learn how the behave on wet pallet dry pallet and AB work, I won’t be switching to other brand any time soon.
They need to be shaken/mixed more than any other brand out there. I think anyone who has used them will agree to this lol. I invested in a paint shaker, and dropped steel ball into them it helps. When you shake/mix them if you see clear liquid coming out first, remixe them. That’s the binder. Fantasy line doesn’t have that issue as bad as color line does.

Thinning for AB work, I have .5 for most work, so on average I do 10 drop paint 4-5 drop thinner, (optional 1 drop flow improver)
.2 for shade highlights. I do 10 drop paint 6-7 drop thinner and work up in glazes.

Brush work you can thin with water no issues, or liquidtex glaze medium it’s same thing as any model paint brand medium just you get more and it’s cheaper.
fansty lines are thinner so you require more layers, but still take to thinning with out running and breaking down.

metals, are some of the best. For both brush and AB. I use them and AK extreme metals. Back to scale metals they super fine Pigmente won’t clog AB even my .2 also there no enamel so no issues with smell or extra thinner cleaners.

Scale75usa is there stateside store, great customer service. Only thing they don’t always have the spray primer I think it’s due to supply issue as getting to USA isn’t easy or cost effective.

Last thing I add, is if you decide to go with them check out there painting guide the steampunk one great learning tool. There new book the painting made easy isn’t as good in my opinion. I have both but felt I learn more from the steampunk one.

Thanks for sharing your insights, I think it will be a lot up to testing both ranges when I get my sample bottles. If the Scalecolor range seems like more my thing I guess I might look into ordering loose bottles from it, the Scalecolor range collection seems to have a bit too many colors of the same hue for my uses.
What paint shaker do you have by the way? I've been looking at some Vortex Genie 2's.

The painting easy is just a collection of small tutorials from the paint sets (flesh, nmm, red, green, ...)
The steampunk one is great and I wait for the next one (busts).

aaand little off, but both easy and steampunk are available on the net as non-official pdf-s.

That Steampunk in Miniature book looks amazing, I'm writing it down on my list of things to get. It even has the Jessica Thunderhawk model on the cover, and in the painting guides - I was just looking at it yesterday thinking I need to paint that someday.

Huge thanks to all of you for your amazing input

 

[shaun5603]

It’s call the typhoon paint shaker, some one gave it to me few years back I believe they said they bought it off esty?? Not 100% on where it came from. For the steel balls pretty much every model paint company has them for sale.

 

[7thSon]

It’s call the typhoon paint shaker, some one gave it to me few years back I believe they said they bought it off esty?? Not 100% on where it came from. For the steel balls pretty much every model paint company has them for sale.

Thats actually funny when you find it on Etsy, it's clearly a Vortex Genie that's cleaned up and painted red with a new sticker - he even gimps it by removing the On/Off/Touch selector.
That is to say, its a great machine, but I find it ridiculous that the seller just rebrands it and calls it "his own".