Murder or Mercy?

[Evil Dave]

Doctor, two nurses arrested for Euthanasia during Katrina

It\'s a big deal down here, some say it\'s murder, some say it\'s justified.
The details of the cases are still not out, so the opinions may change, but so far the vast majority down here are siding with the doctor and the nurses.

Now I\'m of the belief, that under extreme conditions (Such as Katrina, which was worse than some battlefields) the law of triage applies. If supplies are limited, there\'s no telling when we\'re getting help, there\'s absolutely nothing you can do for me, and I am in intense pain, I\'m going to want someone to be as merciful.
Far better than letting someone sit in 98-100 degree enviornments, simply dying in intense pain.

 

[RedSevenBlue]

If I\'m in the battlefield and my leg is blown off and we\'re pinned there and can\'t get any medical assistance and by the time we do, I\'ll have died slowly, I would have someone put me down.

 

[treide]

I have to agree with you on this one. From what I heard on the radio, the hospital was flooded, the power was out, and there was no option for transporting the patients out. It was either euthanize the patients or let them slowly die of exposure, dehydration and starvation. Awful situation.

 

[OrkyDave]

this is always gonna be contraversial, and I agree with euthanasia, sometimes its the most humane thing to do, and I was under the impression that its a doctors role to stop suffering.

 

[funnymouth]

hummmm...not to many details.

if im dying in a trench in pain i will die hallucinating in pain - but if someone wants to be put down, so be it.

frankly i dont really buy that it was murder. a doctor and two nurses killing people for no reason....i donno. seems like they made a medical judgement. malpractice, maybe, murder, i doubt it.

 

[supervike]

I always thought it was Youth In Asia...

and I wondered, why do they keep picking on those poor kids.

 

[Ogrebane]

Is this how the American Govornment attone for the fact that they had washed thier hands of katrina. Seriously I think in these situations then Doctors are going to have to make these decisions. Will the government be charged with neglect when they waited for what 3 days or so before they stepped in.

I side with the docs they do the best they can and then get creamed for it. :cussing:

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by Ogrebane
Is this how the American Govornment attone for the fact that they had washed thier hands of katrina. Seriously I think in these situations then Doctors are going to have to make these decisions. Will the government be charged with neglect when they waited for what 3 days or so before they stepped in.

I side with the docs they do the best they can and then get creamed for it. :cussing:

Sorry Dude, having been through it and seen all the events before, during, and after, I cannot lay the blame on our federal government.
Local government, and State government...yes.

And to be perfectly honest, as cruel as it may seem, many of those in New Orleans at the time really have no one to blame but themselves.
They were given a mandatory evacuation, there was transport out of the city, and if worse came to worse they could\'ve walked two to three hours over to the many towns nearby.
The vast majority of people chose to stay, then demanded the government save them from their own irresponsibility. The only ones I have any true pity for are the old people in the retirement homes and the people who were too sick to leave and were already in the hospitals.

 

[No Such Agency]

And to be perfectly honest, as cruel as it may seem, many of those in New Orleans at the time really have no one to blame but themselves.
They were given a mandatory evacuation, there was transport out of the city, and if worse came to worse they could\'ve walked two to three hours over to the many towns nearby.

You will likely find few to support your cries for \"personal responsibility\" here. Poor and elderly people with few possessions and no transport opted to stay with their homes, unwise perhaps, but I cannot blame them in the face of a total lack of centralized planning. The fact that the \"flood plan\" - in a city built below sea level - consisted of \"drive for your lives\" was very bad news for those without anything to drive. There were even some college girls who spent the flood holed up in a dorm: failure to evacuate was not just about race or class but about the American fantasy that everyone has a set of wheels.

And remember some people who tried to walk out of the city were blocked at bridges by armed police, so they wouldn\'t enter the drier, affluent suburb of Jefferson Parish. They got to spend the flood camped out on a sun-baked concrete overpass rather than in a feces-filled stadium (lucky or not?)

Anyway, on topic, I think that facts are few and far between at this point, I sure can\'t guess if those medics were angels of mercy, or just stressed and hasty.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by No Such Agency

And to be perfectly honest, as cruel as it may seem, many of those in New Orleans at the time really have no one to blame but themselves.
They were given a mandatory evacuation, there was transport out of the city, and if worse came to worse they could\'ve walked two to three hours over to the many towns nearby.

You will likely find few to support your cries for \"personal responsibility\" here. Poor and elderly people with few possessions and no transport opted to stay with their homes, unwise perhaps, but I cannot blame them in the face of a total lack of centralized planning. The fact that the \"flood plan\" - in a city built below sea level - consisted of \"drive for your lives\" was very bad news for those without anything to drive. There were even some college girls who spent the flood holed up in a dorm: failure to evacuate was not just about race or class but about the American fantasy that everyone has a set of wheels.

Dude, look at my location, I\'d be willing to buy that if I didn\'t see the thousands of junked cars everyday on my way to work.
Cars that I might add were pulled out of New Orleans after the hurricane.
60 acres of them bumper to bumper.
And that\'s just one spot they\'re dumping them.
I\'d also buy that if I didn\'t have eye witnesses seeing bus drivers begging people to get on the bus and them refusing.

And remember some people who tried to walk out of the city were blocked at bridges by armed police, so they wouldn\'t enter the drier, affluent suburb of Jefferson Parish. They got to spend the flood camped out on a sun-baked concrete overpass rather than in a feces-filled stadium (lucky or not?)

Sure they got blocked, after the hurricane.
They had at least 48 hours before the hurricane even hit to get out of the city.

Trust me dude, I had been going to New Orleans for months on my weekends off to help rebuild, but completely gave up.
The Cradle to Grave mentality is what is killing New Orleans, people like me will not go back to help people who won\'t lift a finger to help themselves.
Believe me the vast majority of Louisianians are supporting my cries for \"Personal Responsibility\", we\'re sick to death of poor pitiful New Orleans.

 

[airhead]

I am certanly glad that I did not have to make those calls. Either way, they will have to live with their decisions & actions.

Dave, my last trip through there (mostly along I-10), MS & AL have done lots of rebuilding as well as lots of LA, yet NO just seems to be sitting around asking \"Where\'s the federal money?\"

 

[Sand Rat]

I was in Houston over the weekend, and the good folks there who have opened their arms to the poor hurricane victems are asking loudly when these thieving bastards are going home. When folks in the Fifth Ward of Houston want you gone, you\'ve sunk pretty low.

KBR actually hired a bunch of them and brought them to Iraq - only to have to send them back to the states when they started stealing everything that wasnt nailed down in the tents.

 

[Spanky]

tough call

Imagine being this doctor and these nurses. Your trapped with pts who are slowly, agonizingly, dying. you see it and its eating you up because you cant do anything to help them. They need constant monitoring and its taking away your help from more viable pts. What do you do? The fact that they used morphine and versed shows tremendous compasion, they could have abandoned them (ethical issue) or stuck a pillow over they\'re face. It seems to me they faced a horrible decision under extreme circumstances. But mercy is still not legal, and being human may still cost them. Sad all the way around.

 

[finn18]

Hmmm..

It\'s illegal to let an animal suffer unnecessarily...

yet...

it\'s also illegal to stop a human suffering unnecessarily???

Crazy if you ask me.

 

[Drake Farstrider]

I think I would have to side with the Doctors and the Nurses on this one. Tuff decision, but one that needed to be made.

 

[freakinacage]

Originally posted by finn18
It\'s illegal to let an animal suffer unnecessarily...

yet...

it\'s also illegal to stop a human suffering unnecessarily???

Crazy if you ask me.

i think you have hit the nail on the head

 

[Thecadian]

if your helping the person whos ill,its right

james

thats what i think anyway

 

[philologus]

As Dave pointed out; the facts are not all in yet. I think that one of the mitigating factors for Americans is that an elderly home in N.O.is being charged for allowing the patients to remain there without doing anything. It seems to some like a double standard.

 

[darthfoley]

Most everything in the States these days seems to be a double standard, unfortunately.

Had to be a rough decision, can\'t imagine what I\'d have done.