nazi miniatures

[hamhamlunchbox]

does nobody think that its kinda sick to buy hitlerjugend and ss miniatures?
dont know bout u guys,but i think its disgusting

there were huge discussions here about a \"us space marine\" but nobody cares about nazi minis?

 

[ScottRadom]

Huh? Really? As an ancestor of some SS soldiers (My Great Uncles were 10th SS) I don\'t follow.

What offends you?

 

[freakinacage]

as opposed to barbarian minis, crusade minis etc?

 

[alextheartist]

I think its fine, afterall films are made about wars and they are immensly popular, why not miniatures...?

In fact i had a great idea today for a hitler mini.
(i have a feeling Scott will like the idea)

Alex

 

[alextheartist]

 

[AinuLainour]

Originally posted by alextheartist

lol and you contributed to the discussion, and THEN posted that. One or the other, my good man, one or the other.

 

[alextheartist]

Ahh, but i have my opinion, but i also realise that it will, like a can of worms come out, then be unable to be put back in.

Other than that i\'m just contrary..

 

[JakeSh]

What about model airplanes and tanks? Miniatures and models are meant to be historical representations, and many of the painters that work on them are history buffs.

Being PC can go too far. Maybe we should start a thread about how miniatures of naked women demean and objectize women. I mean, some people could get really offended by that, you know?

 

[DIablofollower]

I agree with Jake on this one. Being a huge history buff and student, I think that all historical miniatures are great educational and artistic representations of the subject. Even if you do not agree with a certain event or in this case regime, history is there to teach us about the past and allow us to make smarter decisions in the future. Even the not so glorious times should be remembered and well represented.

Looking at it from a more militaristic point of view, the German army was the best in the world at the time, so at least I believe, that there is nothing wrong with representing it in miniature form for its technological and strategic achievements.

Also like it has been said already, what makes it any different from lets say miniatures of Napoleon? After all he was not much more than another tyrant responsible for ending the lives of countless people.

Really as I said before, historical miniatures shouldn\'t be looked at as offensive but as something to draw knowledge and inspiration from.

Sorry about the rant, had to put my two cents in on this one.

 

[Infidel Castro]

Look backwards to go forwards....

 

[Dragonsreach]

World War 2 Wargames have been around far longer then most of the posters on here.
Would you have us remove the German or Japanese references from them?

The Hitlerjugend and the SS are a part of the history of the world, we cannot erase them or their actions. By keeping their existance \"in plain sight\" we prevent (as much as possible) the mentality of \"The Holocaust Never Happened.\"

 

[hamhamlunchbox]

Originally posted by DIablofollower
history is there to teach us about the past and allow us to make smarter decisions in the future.

too bad it doesnt most of the time.

well,you all got good points there,maybe its different for me cuz im austrian.
of course i agree that all of this should be kept in our memory to prevent something like this in the future,but still it seems somehow wrong to me(nazi-minis),just like collecting nazi-flags,uniforms...(i know thats a different story,but still).
there should be another way to keep it alive in our minds,not a game about a real war.

 

[freakinacage]

Originally posted by Dragonsreach
World War 2 Wargames have been around far longer then most of the posters on here.

but not all!?

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by Dragonsreach
World War 2 Wargames have been around far longer then most of the posters on here.
Would you have us remove the German or Japanese references from them?

To be fair, a lot of video games (eg. Day of Defeat) sidestep the problem by making the German side ordinary Wehrmacht soldiers... considerably less problematic for the player.

The Hitlerjugend and the SS are a part of the history of the world, we cannot erase them or their actions. By keeping their existance \"in plain sight\" we prevent (as much as possible) the mentality of \"The Holocaust Never Happened.\"

A very good point. My brother\'s take on wargaming with SS miniatures (he plays Flames of War) was something like \"you can send them to get slaughtered, and lose horribly, and it doesn\'t feel bad. lol His German force are still just regular army, though.

 

[Crayfish]

As Lemmy Kilmeister from Motörhead said \"The germans had the coolest uniforms\" .... I dont see a problem in it, its the past, its all hugs and kisses now right :beer:

 

[groffus]

Why not have them? there were among the greatest troops the world has ever seen. Forget the political side to them.

The same way as we paint Crusaders, US marines, British soldiers. An argument can be made that these are all wrong depending on your nationality and political views.

I for one love to look at all the above, I am looking for good paint skills and great minis, I am not interested in the least in the historical aspect of the mini.

At the end of the day the mini is just a toy soldier/figure that we paint, and that is what we are all here for to look, admire and if possible take some ideas and improve our own skills. Its a hobby nothing more.

 

[tidoco2222]

I sometimes wonder when I see threads along this line that what if WWII had been fought several hundred years ago and not within living memory would therel it still cause as much controversy as it does today. We happily look or buy and paint other historical miniatures that have chequered pasts (ok not so much as the WWII Germanic period).
During the invasion of occupied Europe by the allies the general units of the Wermacht that had SS soldiers attatched to them soon came to respect there bravery in battle, they still hated what they stood for but there prowess in the field could not be denied this was shown in many cases during those final days.
It is part of history (a very sad part, but not a part that should be forgotten or brushed under the carpet because it is a sensitive part).
We should no more deny the right or feel guilty about buying, painting or using this subject matter in our games than we should about buying other historical subjects that had little regard towards the suffering they caused to the people they had fought and conquered.

 

[rolling thunder]

im a ww2 re-enactor and we get the same discussions \"why would you represent SS\" its a very valid arguement and i do both US and SS. my personal view is that as bad as the SS were they were still some of the best fighting units germany had. and we shud rememebr them for both thier fighting prowess and thier mass murder in equal amounts.
but heres the thing for those who say its wrong: at least 1% of the german regular Whermacht were involved in the murders. on the Russian front along that would equal nearly half a million men. So its never as clean cut as you would like. if we didnt do SS stuff then technically we cant do german at all. Or Russian considering what Stalin did to his own people.
As many of you have rightly said we must rememebr the past in all its good and bad otherwise it\'ll just happen again (kinda how we forgot the great depression and look where we are)

 

[supervike]

I guess it depends on what you are buying the miniatures for. (or any Nazi paraphanalia)

Personally, the miniatures I have are because they represent the \'bad guys\' in my little miniature world, the same way I have demons that represent the \'bad guys\' in my fantasy collection, or zombies in my horror, or slavering space aliens in my Sci Fi stuff.

The greater the evil, the greater the hero.

That\'s just me, there are folks who collect that sort of thing for historical perspective, but there are also some people that do so because they admire it.

That scares me a bit I suppose, but it is the price you pay for being in a free-ish society.


I find some of the online laws governing the German people very interesting. How the display of Nazi things could very well land you into hot water.

 

[Amazon warrior]

What, so...

...only the losing side was capable of atrocities and war crimes?

Sorry, yes the SS were bad and they did terrible thing in the name of what they believed was right, but that doesn\'t automatically mean that the allies were perfect beings of shining light, you know. Nothing is ever that black-and-white; in a war, pretty much everyone acts like a dick, regardless of which side they\'re on. It\'s just that the winners usually get to write the story afterwards. I think THAT\'S what\'s important to remember.