Need a little [read: lot] of help [PICTURE HEAVY]

[pradaking]

Hey guys,
Decided to paint some of the 13,000points worth of models i have laying around (i know, bad) and hit a stick in the mud. I am not very good at painting.
Unfortunately, the last 7 years that i have spent collecting and not painting, i have been scouring the net and looking at wonderful pictures of wonderful armies and now that is what i want. I went through my paints and threw out over 35pots (stupid screw top citadel) and restocked on a few. I then chose a paint scheme..... imperial fists (D\'OH!). Assembled and converted the figures, which is by far my favorite part of the hobby.
Now, i once again scoured the internet for articles on how to paint yellow and tried a few tests models last night (foundation paints = highly over rated). Then today i painted a model with the selected method, which was:
Skull White Base (3 coats, uneven and poor coverage)
Golden Yellow solid. (patchy and not paticularly smooth)
Chestnut ink for the crevices. (didn\'t sink into gaps, uneven colouring not sure if it is the correct colour)
Badmoon yellow for the highlights (too bright, i think??)
I was extremely disappointed with the outcome.
I have included a picture. I\'m not so concerned about the errors, i havn\'t gone back and tidied him and i was so disappointed with the yellow i really just rushed through finishing the details. Also, he is supposed to be 4th company, hence the green on the shoulders.
What can i do to improve on the next model? More graduated highlights? Maybe something like golden yellow, wash with ink, drybrush golden yellow again and highlight properly? Drybrushing? I would like to try glazing/dipping methods (as done by blue table painting, because if done right i think it can look really good and smooth), but havn\'t been able to find a good tutorial for it?
It is the application of colour + keepin it smooth which kills me. And the shading which has me stumped. I tried layering up from iyanden darksun, then vomit brown, then macharius orange on the tests and found it did not help with coverage of the yellow and was too difficult to leave the gaps, specially when i need to do 3-4 coats of golden yellow.
I don\'t really want to change to a different paint company, citadel is quick and easy to get.
All criticisms, flaming and abuse welcome.. I need help and the first step is admitting i have a problem
I am in australia by the way.
Cheerio,
Cam.
P.S. For people that have been around 40k for a long time, enjoy the nostalgic space marine miniature. Great models for test schemes =)

 

[pradaking]

highly highly considering changing them to ultramarines or salamanders after this disaster.. as the Japanese said at kokoda \"Advance to the rear!\" ??

 

[freakinacage]

dude, i\'d change if i were you. yellow is a pain. and that amount of yellow will be hell!

 

[Will88]

If you want to use yellow, I would stick with it. However I think that as a start if you are painting a model/ army with such a dominant yellow scheme you could consider priming your models white, and then using a yellow spray paint to get a good yellow coverage (I dunno if GW make a yellow spray, but if they don\'t make sure you get an acrylic one). I would avoid using an ink wash because of your previous problem, but maybe try layering. So shade your yellow by adding a tiny bit of (if my memory serves me correctly) purple. Then to highlight, if you find the contrast between your yellows too much, try mixing them together.
Just a thought, it might help. (If you do spray them yellow then they should look a lot neater). If you don\'t want to spray them you will be forced to thin the yellow down and paint lots of layers to build up a steady colour.

 

[Will88]

Oh, and before you paint the next sections, like the green trim I would repaint them white to avoid looking like you painted the whole thing yellow.

 

[airhead]

First, prime your minis? Paint is not primer. For armies, I\'d get some white krylon primer.

Second, thin your paints. A wise person (and better painter than me) said \"If you can cover it in one coat, your paint is too thick.\" (if it takes more than 3 coats, you may be too thin - except yellow which takes LOTS of coats.)

Third, yellow is not the easiest color in the world to paint. It tends not to cover well at all. It tends to be translucent.

With the chestnut ink (and most of GW\'s inks) thin about 10 drops of water to one drop of ink).

Your work looks neat and tidy and you are off to a pretty good start. Read the articles sections on washes and highlights. Ask questions, post WIP\'s.

 

[pradaking]

Cheers for the response. I THINK i have a method (picture below).
Spray white (one coat plus touch ups)
Paint Golden Yellow (at least 3 coats)
Wash with mix of Roughly 2:2:1 Water/Yellow Ink/Chestnut Ink.
Paint Golden Yellow (1-2 coats)
Highlight 1:1 Golden Yellow/Bad Moon
Highlight Badmoon
Extreme highlight white.
Wash Yellow ink (almost straight out of the pot)

What do people think? Too involved for an army standard paintjob that, realisticly, won\'t look amazing?
What are peoples thoughts on multiple ink washes to build the colour? Not viable with yellow? Or even a thinned Golden yellow?
Am i better off doing ALL of my yellow work, then doing the details or vice versa? i have been doing the details then the yellow, for fear of makin a mistake onto the yellow.
Also, i have read a lot about \"wonder wash\" or \"magic wash\", what is it? Also, i couldn\'t find anything specific about \"glazing\" or \"dipping\", would these work and what are they?
Sorry about the long posts and 101 questions and thanks for your help!!
Cheers,
Cam.

 

[pradaking]

Ok, i have some before and after inking on several methods. If i could get some feedback that would be great!
This is fiery orange [FO] -> brown ink -> FO again -> FO/skull white [SW] -> yellow ink

and


Vomit brown -> Bleached Bone -> SW Highlight -> Yellow Ink

and


Finally SW washed with Yellow ink/Chestnut Ink -> Golden Yellow -> Badmoon yellow -> SW -> Yellow Ink

and


Please bear in mind that each of these parts have 20-30coats of paint by now, so they are looking a little messy. Sorry about poor picture quality also. These are all methods taken from the net. The easiest to paint was the Bleached Bone Method and the Hardest probably the Golden Yellow method.
A question i have is that on the orange one it says to \"highlight to skull white\", does that mean that i should highlight WITH Skull white or mix skull white into the Fiery Orange for several coats until i am using only skull white?
Thanks again.

 

[airhead]

the second from bottom looks pretty good.

I would (for an army)
Prime (krylon white)
base coat medium yellow
wash with a diluted chestnut ink or burn orange paint (way diluted to make a wash)
highlight with a bright yellow (again thin with a glaze medium and only apply to the top areas)

Your highlights look like painted stripes. Thin the paints more. Don\'t paint a stripe, but lay the brush on the side of the tips and pull it across the tops of all the areas. (if you are familiar with water colors, think glaze)

 

[pradaking]

Thanks for the advice.
What is this \'krylon white\' and where can i get it? Could i alternatively use the GW Skull white Spray?
The problem that i have when i wash with a diluted chestnut or chestnut/yellow ink is that it send the yellow dirty and brownish. then i need another couple of coats to bring the yellow back up. Should i be thinning the ink more? It is already roughly 2:3 water/ink.
Also, what is a glaze medium? i still dont think i wknow exactly what a \'glaze\' is.
Cheers again,
Cam.

 

[matty1001]

Heres a thread on painting yellow: http://www.tbforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=19793#post19793

 

[airhead]

Originally posted by pradaking
What is this \'krylon white\' and where can i get it?

I assumed you were in the US. Krylon is a brand of spray paint found in most department and home stores. Try the local DIY store for primers, either home center or automotive touch up.

Could i alternatively use the GW Skull white Spray?

No. GW sprays are water based paints, not primer.

The problem that i have when i wash with a diluted chestnut or chestnut/yellow ink is that it send the yellow dirty and brownish. then i need another couple of coats to bring the yellow back up. Should i be thinning the ink more? It is already roughly 2:3 water/ink.

I thin GW inks about 10 water to 1 ink. You are on the right track, just don\'t go back and cover all that darkened stuff. Thin the ink more so it does not do much more than darken the creases. Then all that is left is a highlight.

Also, what is a glaze medium? i still dont think i wknow exactly what a \'glaze\' is.

Try the local art supply store. Golden, Liquitex, W&N are available here, not sure about there. But they have a bottle of glazing medium. You put a drop of paint in about 10 drops of glazing medium to create a glaze - a very thin layer of paint that is hardly noticible. Many of the top rated minis you see here have 20 or more layes of glazes built up on them with no loss of detail. You can use water for the medium, but some paints do not like to be taken that thin without a bit of emulsifier or additional binder added back in.

Do a search on magic washes and you\'ll find as many recipies as artists here. Basicly suped up water for taking paints very thin without the paints separating. One of the most common uses Klear or similar about half & half with water. Others take water and add retarders and flow improvers (and other bits.)

 

[Will88]

I still think that you should use a spray paint to paint the yellow. It will look much neater and be much quicker than applying the paint with a brush. Remember to prime with white first. I also definitely think that you should not highlight in pure white. Tint it a bit with yellow ink. Skip the last ink stage because it dulls down all of the highlights and shading.

Looks good though, a good improvement from the last model though

 

[pradaking]

What type of yellow spray? Any type of satin finish acrylic? Pretty sure GW only does black and white spray now because of colour match issues.
Thanks again guys. Got another completed miniature.
I used a bit of each ideas.



I still have a bunch of miniatures that are hand undercoated white, so i gotta get through them first.
I then did 2 coats Golden Yellow.
Chestnut/Yellow ink wash over whole model. Thinned it down dramatically and it worked 100x better [thanks airhead!]
1:1 Golden Yellow/Bad Moon Yellow
1:3 Golden Yellow/Bad Moon Yellow
Bad Moon Yellow Final highlight.
NO yellow ink glaze and NO skull white highlights.
Still not particularly happy with the shoulders and not sure what else i should do with the gun and eyes. The black might be a little bit plain?

 

[airhead]

Looks like you are on the right track. Now thin down the ink (10 or even 20 water to 1 drop of ink). get a nice big brush and paint the thing. The ink should settle into the creases and give you some definition for area like the finger joints, panel lines, etc.