Need to get better.

azab350

New member
OK. So I am making this thread asking for help.

I Am looking for some new brushes for a start, I am not a wealthy man, so can't go too expensive, and would like similar size to GW brushes.

Would also like a nice basic easy to use NMM recipe for my Eldar weapons?

I have painted a Wave Serpent except the guns, thing is I have painted the engines in metallics.... Would that be a problem if I want NMM guns?

And finally, how do I make a wet palette?
 

MrPickles

New member
good NMM is mostly tiny blends with paint that is as thin as water. ive been dabbling with it. it's easy enough to do but it takes FOREVER. you have to check how much water-paint is on your brush all the time or it looks really bad. you cant just dip it in and go.

if you ask such other basic questions i question if youre ready for NMM. most will say that you dont mix the two. either metallics or NMM, but not both.

windsor and newton series 7 is really popular. wet pallet is just a container with water, sponge in the water, parchment paper ontop of the sponge.
 

Einion

New member
I Am looking for some new brushes for a start, I am not a wealthy man, so can't go too expensive, and would like similar size to GW brushes.
Bricks-and-mortar or ordering online? US or elsewhere?

There are tons of prior threads with brush recommendations in them, many with links to suppliers like Rosemary & Co. (here you're buying directly from the brushmaker), Dick Blick and other online vendors and their UK equivalents.

Einion
 

azab350

New member
Einion, I Live in the UK, and was hoping a bricks & Mortar store would be better, as I could look at the brushes first...

Mr Pickles, I can't find anywhere in my town that does wet palette paper, is there another name or will normal palette paper be as good?
 

Milosh

New member
Regular old baking paper for cooking, not wax paper but a pan liner. It comes in a roll and available at the grocery store. You don't need a sponge, paper towels work just as well. If you are just starting out don't worry about sable, you can buy some nice cheap brushes at the hobby shop and mess around with those untill you know you will stick with the hobby.
 

MrPickles

New member
Regular old baking paper for cooking, not wax paper but a pan liner. It comes in a roll and available at the grocery store. You don't need a sponge, paper towels work just as well. If you are just starting out don't worry about sable, you can buy some nice cheap brushes at the hobby shop and mess around with those untill you know you will stick with the hobby.

disagree on the brushes. brush quality can make or break painting experience. nothing more frustrating and annoying than a brush that isnt working properly. spend a few extra bucks and get something decent. rosemary and co are supposed to be really good and fairly cheap. i'm going to order some to try out.
 

MrPickles

New member
well i was about to finish my order but rosemary and co charges 11-12 US for shipping.

seems like way too much for something that easily ships as letter mail. ebay people will ship brushes for less then half of that so you might want to grab some army painter brushes off ebay. it will probably be the cheapest bet.
 
Brushes... I say start with a red sable or squirrels hair brush. Since you live in the UK, look for some brush that's around 3-4GBP. No more than that to get started. Synthetics are a bad idea and hobby store brushes are a bad idea. Local art stores are usually cheaper and better. You'll just have to guess for a comparison to the GW sizes because art stores use a different system. that's okay. Just look for logical size brushes. Usually a 3/0, 0, and 2 will get you started. Got about 9GBP.

For NMM metal, there's an easy way that looks partially decent, and then you have the awesome, effect. The easy and fast way is (for any silver, steel, any grey metal) is to basecoat with any midtone grey, use black ink or wash to pick out the shadows, then highlight with white. I use to do this on somem high elves I painted for an army, really fast, really easy.
As for cool, awesome looking NMM, other people are better answering that. I'm working on it still.
Wet palletes are easy to make, but there's tons of ways people do it. The only essential parts are baking paper, paper towels or sponges, and a flat, container of some kind. I use an airtight, plastic container with a flat sponge. All you do is lay the sponge on the container, then the baking paper, then drench the thing in water. the water seeps through the paper, and you're ready to go.
Hope I helped and good luck with your painting!
 

Milosh

New member
I agree on all points about the sable, I'm just saying don't spend $30 on a great brush if you're just going to give up after a few figures. If the hobby is going to be something you will do for a long time than spend the money on the best brushes you can find, they will last you forever.
 

azab350

New member
I have into Warhammer for a few years, and only recently (May) started to really get into it. I do enjoy my painting and I have whole GW brush range bar the 'Evay Metal brushes. Problem I find with them is that they splay after a few models use. That is my main reason of wanting better brushes, and the fact they are like £3-4 a brush...

I have a desire to enter Golden Demon UK so would LOVE to have the tools at hand to get better at painting, as I am getting there. I've started to learn NMM and I have created a nice wet palette that I have started to use.

I will have a wonder up to a local Hobby-Craft to have a ponder at there brush line, any particular brand or size I should go for? (Rosemary & Co, Winsor And Newton etc have been mentioned I see)
 

shakes

New member
Hey, everyone will have different opinions and there all valid, all I can do is give my 2 cents. Brushes are very important, I personally prefer kolinsky sable brushes. I'm not sure but I think the GW brushes are now kolinsky and are actually quite nice. I have two types of brushes, W&N series 7 and GW and lately I find myself using the GW more then my significantly more expensive W&N. Reason for this is that series 7 brushes are made for watercolor and have quite long bristles. I prefer a little more spring in my brush which I find GW is now better for. I paint almost everything with 3 brushes now. I have a large wash brush from GW which I will base coat with. A standard GW brush which I paint 95% of my stuff with including eyes etc on 28mm and lastly a size 0 W&N series 7. The series 7 are deffinetly better quality with finer sable but I find for small miniatures the bristle lengths on the GW are superior. I have also heard alot of good stuff about rosemary and co. but never used them myself. Where I am series 7 start at $16 canadian for a triple 0, are about $40 for something slightly larger then a wash brush, and about $200 for something slightly larger then an old GW tank brush. I'll also add brush care is incredibly important. If you want your brushes to last never compress the bristles, never leave your brush bristle down in water etc, and I would also suggest getting some brush soap. I am not the most careful person with my brushes but I do my best and I havent bought a new brush in about 3 years. My W&N brushes still look like new but my GW brushes are still more then serviceable though do show some slight wear.

NMM - I personally would not mix NMM and TMM. This is just my opinion. You can get alot of control out of metallics depending on your style but no matter what they will always pick up more light then flat paint, or I think they will. NMM done right offers complete control over your light source, that being said even if done seemlesly I think TMM looks better on the table top then NMM. NMM best comes out in display pieces. As for an easy recipe there is'nt really one. If your light control is done right you can use any color and have it look metalic, this is the hard part. Seemless blending doesnt meant your piece is going to have good looking NMM, perfectly blending grey is easy to do, NMM silver is far harder. You have to think long and hard about where your light is coming from, how its going to reflect, where your hotspots are going to be etc, to get realistic NMM. If done wrong it just looks like something highlighted grey or brown or blue, whatever colors you went with. Light doesn't react the same on reflective surfaces as on matte surfaces so you can't just highlight something normally and have perfect blends and expect it to look metallic. Thats a bit of a ramble and just my 2 cents which may or may not be helpful. If you do decide to try NMM i suggest you take a few minutes to look at your model, decide where your light source is, and think about how you think the light will react on your chosen surface. If your looking for inspiration I would check out the following painters gallerys, to name but a few. Razza, Brokenblade, Yellow one, elly3438, and maybe check out automaton aswell to see what you can achieve with TMM using NMM concepts.

Wet Palette - Probably the easiest way and I think it's already been mentioned is to take a sponge, common kitchen one works fine, place it in a shallow tupper wear container, soak it, and cover it with bakers paper. I suggest a tupper wear spo you can put a lid on it and chuck it in the fridge. I've kept mixes going for as long as a week this way with acrylics.

Don't know if any of that will help but hopefully there was something in that ramble, best of luck, happy painting.

Shakes.
 
I personally prefer kolinsky sable brushes. I'm not sure but I think the GW brushes are now kolinsky and are actually quite nice. Reason for this is that series 7 brushes are made for watercolor and have quite long bristles. I prefer a little more spring in my brush which I find GW is now better for.

NMM - I personally would not mix NMM and TMM. This is just my opinion. an easy recipe there is'nt really one.

Wet Palette - Probably the easiest way and I think it's already been mentioned is to take a sponge, common kitchen one works fine, place it in a shallow tupper wear container, soak it, and cover it with bakers paper. I suggest a tupper wear spo you can put a lid on it and chuck it in the fridge. I've kept mixes going for as long as a week this way with acrylics.

Don't know if any of that will help but hopefully there was something in that ramble, best of luck, happy painting.

Shakes.


On brushes, I agree GW brushes have gotten better, but they don't match up as nicely as a WN or Raphael or a Da Vinci or Rosemary and Co. You you like shorter bristles just buy smaller numbers. There's way more spring in the watercolor brushes that GW. Yes, they are Kolinsky sable but they are low graded and poorly constructed. I'm not saying they're terrible, but I just haven't had good luck with them. But I do prefer the large brush and the stipple brush from GW. But everything else I give to other artist kolinsky sables.

On NMM, there is an easy recipe, it just doesn't look anything like the pros. I agree TMP or TMM or however you prefer to call it is much better on the gaming table.

Everything else I agree.
 

shakes

New member
I want short bristles with a wide resevoir is my problem, the brushes from W&N that hold the ammount of paint I want, which isn't much, have to long a bristle for my personal painting style. GW standard is perfect for most of my stuff, admittedly they are not as good a quality, unfortunately W&N does not make a brush with this size of resevoir and that short a bristle. That's not to say there not great for someone else.

shakes
 

RuneBrush

New member
There are a lot of threads on here discussing the various brushes available to mini painters in most parts of the world. W&N tend to be one of the most expensive you can get and there are comparable brushes for less money. The latest GW brushes (which are rumoured to be made by W&N). Personally, I think you should start off with natural fibre brushes from day one (which to their credit, GW ones are now). It was a revelation when I tried my first decent brush and I've never looked back - it's not that they make you a better painter or make it easier to paint, more that you don't get the problems associated with synthetic bristles
 

Einion

New member
azab350 said:
Einion, I Live in the UK, and was hoping a bricks & Mortar store would be better, as I could look at the brushes first...
What part of the country?

It is a good idea to have a look at brushes in person if possible, since even high-end brush brands can have duds - W&N Series 7 being notorious for this now (I say now, it's been this way for more than a decade actually). You will pay more for them though so I would try to buy during sales ideally, since really decent brushes don't tend to be cheap and some are ludicrously pricey.

I don't think you need sable or Kolinsky for miniature painting, they do have many great features and once you've compared them in use to synthetics they tend to show why they're worth the investment, but synthetics are still a perfectly reasonable option for a lot of painting and for some tasks they're a better choice. It's worth mentioning that there are some pros that use only synthetics, to make the point that good results don't require expensive brushes.

azab350 said:
...I can't find anywhere in my town that does wet palette paper, is there another name or will normal palette paper be as good?
Baking parchment (Raytex make a good one if that's available where you are) or heavyweight tracing paper/tracing vellum.

Einion
 
I want short bristles with a wide resevoir is my problem, the brushes from W&N that hold the ammount of paint I want, which isn't much, have to long a bristle for my personal painting style. GW standard is perfect for most of my stuff, admittedly they are not as good a quality, unfortunately W&N does not make a brush with this size of resevoir and that short a bristle.
shakes

Yes WN does, they make the Series 7 "Miniature" Brushes which have exactly what you want, shorter bristles, bigger belly, designed for miniature watercolor but obviously work great in our miniatures too. Da Vinci brushes have nice bellies on them to. Rosemary and Co Series 22 have bigger bellies too. So just look around different brands have exactly what you need. If your into cheaper quality sable that will do you the job, I want to point out Army Painter Wargamer range. Their sable brushes are pretty good, I've had better experience with them than GW. They have bristles like you want, and have triangle handles for easy handling.
 

Tommie Soule

New member
Check out some of the NMM in MY GALLERY see if you like it.
If so ask questions as you see fit.
All recipies are easy really as they are just a list of colours. Knowing where and how to apply the colours is the trick.

Mix NMM and TMM as you see fit, i would and so does alfonso giraldes HERE to great effect.

As for brushes I use GW brushes, affordable and if you search for the good ones in the store you will find some great ones! and GW paints for 90% of the time and switch to W+N when a finer touch is needed.

Any questions ask!

T
 
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azab350

New member
Well, I grabbed myself 3 new brushes, all Windsor and Newton. Saving for some Series 7's. My painting is improving, and that is not down to the brushes, but they are alot smoother to use and seem to be much better and more controllable than the GW brushes.

I picked up

1 - W&N Artists' Water Colour Sable Round
0 - W&N Galeria Round S
00 - W&N Sceptre Gold II 101

I do have to say, I love the Water Colour brush, really really smooth...


Painted 3 mini's so far, and 1 of them is GW, the other 2 are my personal display models.

Should I grab some dedicated brush soap or carry on using cold water with a tiny tiny amount of fairy liquid?
 

Milosh

New member
I have some brush soap that I use at least once a week, it really helps to get paint out you didn't even know was still in there. You would be amazed at what stays in there even with good rinsing. The stuff I use is called "pink stuff" and is liquid.
 
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