New member and a few questions.

[Piotr]

Hello all!

New forum member here!

I have recently found an appreciation of painting miniatures and would love to get started. I have been reading a lot for the past few days and have finally found a few products which I would love to get some advice on. I will mostly be painting Warhammer Fantasy miniatures.

Paint Brushes:

I know that it's probably overkill for a beginner but since money is not really an issue and I am also a perfectionist, so I decided to go for something better than the standard GW paint brushes. From my research I gathered that I do not need a full set from 5 - 0000x as most people seems to find a brush or two they work well with and stick to that. So I went for the following:


da Vinci Serie 10 - MAESTRO Red Sable, 2
da Vinci Serie 10 - MAESTRO Red Sable, 1
da Vinci Serie 10 - MAESTRO Red Sable, -0
da Vinci Serie 10 - MAESTRO Red Sable, -2
http://www.kunstpark-shop.de/Kuenst...nsel/da-Vinci-Serie-10-MAESTRO-Rotmarder.html

I also purchased:

The Masters Brush Cleaner

http://www.kunstpark-shop.de/Kuenst...Dose.html?listtype=search&searchparam=masters

Paints:

I have been reading that although the GW paints are in no way a bad product, they are a bit more expensive and you get less "bang for your buck" in terms of quantity. Also I read that the Caps are not optimal and a drip system is recommended so that not too much paint is wasted. For me it's not a problem that I have to buy more paint, rather that I don't want to have to order paint too frequently.

So with that said, I have decided on:

Vallejo Game Color Set
Vallejo Washes Set

http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/valle...color-set-specialist-set-x16-/prod_10221.html
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/vallejo/vallejo-paint-sets/vallejo-washes-set-8-x-17ml/prod_10225.html

Primer:

Here I am not really sure if the GW White and Black primers are any good or if I should get something better. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.


Few Questions:

1) What do you think about my paintbrush choices? Have I ordered too few sizes?
2) There seems to be a rift in people who dry brush and those who can't even hear the word without tearing their hair out. I would obviously love to learn the non-drybrush way. Is this a mistake? And if I do decide to drybrush in the end, would I need a separate brush for this? I wouldn't want to ruin my Maestro brushes by dry brushing.
3) Any thoughts on the paints?
4) Any recommendations about primer?

and lastly

Anything else you can add in terms of tips would be appreciated :smile:

Thank you in advance!

 

[me_in_japan]

Howdy - welcome to the wonderful world of painting li'l plastic soldiers

As you've no doubt noticed, there are as many ways of painting minis as there are painters. The most important thing is to do what you enjoy. It seems from your post that you'd like to ultimately take things beyond a tabletop level paint job, and with that mind I'd recommend the following:

1) get a decent tutorial video. Personally, I really like Miniature Mentor, but I can also vouch for Jeremie Bonamant Teboul's DVD set (available from Figone, I believe). Or, if you can separate the dross from the quality, YouTube is also worth a look. Whichever you end up choosing, a good basic tutorial on miniature prep, undercoating and base coating will stand you in good stead.

2) get a cheap brush as well as the 4 good ones you've selected. You'll need a cheaper one for stuff like mixing paint on the palette, as well as (ulp) dry brushing. Drybrushing does have its place. The GW painting guides tend to over emphasise its use, but for things like animal fur or rocks (on bases) it's a very valid technique. It knackers your brush, though, hence the need for a cheap one.

3) focus on keeping paint jobs neat at first. This is harder than it looks, but necessary.

4) try not to habitually use washes for shading. Try to think about where light and dark will fall on your mini, and paint them in yourself. This is difficult, but if you get a handle on it it's a clear sign you are moving up in terms of technical ability.

5) eventually, some basic art books about colour theory and light and shadow are useful. I like "Colour and Light" by James Gurney, myself. I have zero background in art, but found it pretty comprehensible. He uses a lot of fantasy subject matter to illustrate his points, too, which I like

There's loads more stuff I could go into - the above is just what popped into my head. I'm sure others will be along with wiser words than I. Tbh, the best advice I can give is: enjoy what you paint.

See ya on the forums


edit : re paint choice: I kinda shy away from recommending big sets because there will always be a good deal of colours in there that you won't use. You'd be better served buying a more limited selection based on what kind o minis you plan to paint then buying other paints later. With the easy availability of paints online, you can get more with just a few clicks, then wait a week and they're in your hands.

Oh! One more thing: make a wet-pallet out of an old Tupperware or blister pack. Get some sponge or kitchen paper. Make it wet. Put it in your Tupperware. Put a piece of baking parchment (non-waxed) on it. Mix your paints on this. The lack of wells makes it very easy to mix colours on the fly, and you will quickly learn how to use colours to shade/light other colors. A wet palette is without a doubt the painting item that improved my results the most.

 

[Piotr]

Thank you very much for your reply. I will get myself a cheap set of brushes and will definitely look at buying some tutorial videos!

I am an amateur photographer with a few courses under my belt in color theory, shape and composition. I am hoping they will help with my painting!

 

[PegaZus]

Thumbs up to the cheap brushes. Kids crafts, pack of more-than-you'll-ever-need for very low price.

Primer. I'm a big supporter of automotive primer; can of white and one of grey. Haven't looked, but black would be good too. But for days that you can't spray, or don't have someplace to do so, get some brush-on primer. I personally don't prefer it, but do use it when I need to reprime an area after finding one more mold line or other such situation.

 

[Chrispy]

1) Get some cheaper ones for basecoats/ inking/ touch up priming. Anything that will have alot of paint on the brush or will go over a lot of surfaces will wear them out. As for your choise of soap, that stuff is great quality, but I get Mona Lisa Pink Soap-

This stuff does everything other brush soaps do- but it has the added benefit of being in liquid form and I've used it successfully to strip a mini.
2) Drybrushing exclusively will give you an overall bad result in painting. I only use it on heavily textured surfaces, like hair or fur. And yes, it is rough on brushes- the best for the job is a Filbert or Cat's Tongue:

Or a simple square brush also works.
3) Overall if buying paints has taught me anything it's that you get what you pay for (most of the time). I've gotten some cheap acrylics and they were the consistency of squeeze butter, did not cover and did not want to mix with water. Also take into account the casing. Screw tops like the older GW ones will force paint into the screw thread, causing it to dry out and you loose product. That said, I work solely with Vallejo, but also use whatever I have from my wealth of art supplies.
4) I go with Rustoelum- I bought some grey car primer and have yet to try it out, but I've read that a lot of resin kit guys use it because it's smooth but still has a surface that paint can stick to.

Remember that the materials don't automatically make you good. Look at any of the Renaissance painters- they basically had to grind and mix their own paints and acrylic was unheard of! However, the reverse isn't true. The world's best painter with crap materials can only do so much. Well, hope this helps!

 

[MAXXxxx]

1. they are about right. you might want one or two extra cheap ones (for stirring paint (in pot or on palette), drybrushing, maybe even for basecoats, where you don't need precision)
2. nah, there is no such big rift , to learn the non-drybrush way: JBT's videos are great, just like Jarhead's beginner workshops, The MiniatureMentor videos assume you already know a few things, but still good.
3. forget the sets (unless you really have money to burn). When I started I also bought the VGC set (72 paints), never used about 30 of them. In retrospect it would have been much better to get only the colors I'd really use.
Ohh and try getting a few extras from other brands too (X20 and X27 from Tamiya for oil/blood effects ; P3 for some of the unusual colors, etc.). As for Metallics try the VMA silvers (gun, steel, silver) they are great (much better than the VGC metals.

4. well... it really depends on how much you use it. As I go through about 1 spray a year, and near me I didn't find anythig better (all I tried were grainier for about same price) I sticked with the GW primers. They are far from the best, but I never had issues with it.
(lately I use the Vallejo white/grey/black through an airbrush, I think their similar product as spray would be good too)

tips:
- as always thin your paint
- get a few extra rolls of kitchen-paper, you'll need them for brush control
- don't forget to clean the water once in a while (before it starts to get moldy )
- have fun, don't rush things. I paint mostly to get some calm in my life, almost like a meditating.

 

[Piotr]

You are all great! Thank you for the replies.

I don't suppose anyone would have a link to an example automotive primer I can order online? After some further reading, I will go for a grey spray. Since it's a spray can, most places will not ship with airmail. I live in Austria, but I have no idea where to get products here. An online store in Austria or Germany link would be fantastic!

 

[VeristicalBlaze]

I would also like to recommend you the Vallejo Model Colours instead of the Game Colours. Game Colours have a slight satin finish and the amount of pigment in them is horrible. Model Colour also has a lot more natural tones, tints and shades.

On the brushes: if you still want to buy Kolinky's; buy Winsor & Newtons Series 7(not miniature!) or Raphael 8404. They're both a lot better then the Da Vinci's in terms of keeping their point and life. I've used all three brands and the Da Vinci's were the newest ones and the first to die too, and I treat all my brushes the same. Also for cleaning the brushes: uses two cups of water, one for the first rough clean and the other after that. Will keep your Kolinsky's a lot better. Only wash the brush with brush soap gently once a 2 months.(depends on how much you paint actually, I paint for about 4 hours thrice a week)

For a good German shop: battlefield-berlin.de carries quite a lot in stock. fredericus rex has Winsor and Newtons and a good amount of other kinds of hobby stuff and stuff for basing.

Germany has probably a Halfords too I think? They are said to have a good automotive primer, but I've never used one of theirs so I can't confirm this.

Good luck with having fun with the painting!

P.S.: Better(or worse, depends ) for your wallet is also looking at other companies that sell minis, I don't want to say you must. But if you like to paint for painting, the world has a lot more to offer then just GW, just look around here in the galleries of CMoN or in the shop and you will find quite a lot already
If you like the style GW uses, Avatars of War might be an option too

 

[Bloodhowl]

You are all great! Thank you for the replies.

I don't suppose anyone would have a link to an example automotive primer I can order online? After some further reading, I will go for a grey spray. Since it's a spray can, most places will not ship with airmail. I live in Austria, but I have no idea where to get products here. An online store in Austria or Germany link would be fantastic!

I don't have any Austrian or German links, but if you go into a DIY auto store they should have spray primers that will work.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Thank you very much for your reply. I will get myself a cheap set of brushes and will definitely look at buying some tutorial videos!

I am an amateur photographer with a few courses under my belt in color theory, shape and composition. I am hoping they will help with my painting!

Being honest; no they won't.
Their use will come later in your skill set, firstly you need to think about painting neatness and accuracy.
Once you've got the basics of getting highlights/shadows etc then start to bring in the complexities of tone, and compostion for the miniatures.

 

[Einion]

da Vinci Serie 10 - MAESTRO

Great brushes, hope you get on well with them. If you don't have any already I would advise getting some cheap synthetics too, not just for gruntwork but for that especially.

The Masters Brush Cleaner

I wish you'd asked about this first as you don't need it, and it's expensive for what it is (although this is a better price for it than some).

Primer:

Here I am not really sure if the GW White and Black primers are any good or if I should get something better. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Heck yes you can do better. The black stuff from GW isn't even primer to begin with! Auto primer is one of the commonest recommendations these days, but other general-purpose primers that you'd get in a DIY centre or hardware store could work well too.

Anything else you can add in terms of tips would be appreciated

The two main painting-related suggestions I'd have would be a double-bath rinsing system (two jars of water) and a homemade stay-wet palette.

Regular, thorough, rinsing is the main way to keep your brushes in good shape and a double-bath system will do this far better than a single jar. Adding a little dishwashing liquid to the first jar is advisable.

Einion

 

[Bailey03]

Seems like you are off to a good start!

2) Yeah, nothing wrong with dry brushing and washes, they both have their place. The issue is when you only use those to get your highlights and shadows. The result is better than nothing but far from great. For display level quality (as opposed to figures you just use for games), most people use semi-transparent layers to blend from shadow to highlight. MiniatureMentor's first video (the complete guide to miniature painting) gives a very nice overview of this. Their other videos, while very good, tend to be more advanced and might be more useful to you after you've had a chance to practice more.

3) Vallejo model color is a good choice. I also really like Reaper Master Series, though they are similar. If you go with Vallejo I'd still recommend ordering some of the Reaper Master Series skin tones. They have a lot more variations on skin than Vallejo does. And there's no problem mixing and matching Reaper with Vallejo (or GW or P3). If you do go with Reaper's skin tones, you might find this tutorial I wrote helpful. It's about painting skin and shows the mixes I use.
http://www.wampforum.com/VB4/content.php?r=3623-Painting-Skin-Tones

4) As others have said, automotive primer seems to be a good choice. I like Dupli-color for white... though I have no idea if it's available outside the US.

5) Yes, make a wet palette!
Also, check out MassiveVoodoo's tutorials (and their models are great inspiration too). Again, many of these cover advanced techniques but they do have a number of tutorials that are great for anyone just starting out. For example, under painting check out the ones in the "basics" and "brush technique" sections.
http://massivevoodoo.blogspot.com/2009/10/tutorial-overview.html

And finally don't forget to have fun! Paint models you like and don't worry if your first, second, or tenth isn't a masterpiece. It takes a lot of practice and almost everyone here, no matter how good, is still learning.

 

[Piotr]

Some fantastic recommendations here! A big thank you to the community for all the friendly help.

I've ordered some Vallejo Model colors as well as some Reaper so that I can compare. Learning by trying is probably the best way.

I've also bought a gray and a white automotive primer from my local auto shop.

I have hijacked one of my wife's old tupperwear for a wet palette. I still need to find some baking paper, as the ones we have at home are all waxed.

Now I just have to order a few more bits (like green stuff, files, cutters, glue) and wait for everything to arrive! It's incredible how much you need when you are starting out!

 

[VeristicalBlaze]

Great! Good luck with it and remember the most important thing is have fun!

This thread is a pretty good sum up for the beginner, maybe sticky it? Would be much easier to immediately send everyone with beginning questions to this thread

 

[Zab]

In Germany, PK pro has a great selection of all kinds of hobby related stuff. not so much on the paint side but just about everything else!

 

[Einion]

I have hijacked one of my wife's old tupperwear for a wet palette. I still need to find some baking paper, as the ones we have at home are all waxed.

If you can't find a suitable baking paper locally qood-quality tracing paper is worth trying instead.

Now I just have to order a few more bits (like green stuff, files, cutters, glue) and wait for everything to arrive! It's incredible how much you need when you are starting out!

If you're buying GS for filling and not actual sculpting then it's really not the best material. MagicSculp is probably your best bet here if you can find it at an acceptable price.

If you need pointers on needle files and other tools don't be afraid to ask, this thread from last year was for members in the UK but it'll give you an idea of good prices to aim for.

It's incredible how much you need when you are starting out!

Yes indeed it is! And you'd be amazed at how many things you might eventually pick up for various jobs... many of them eventually not that useful unfortunately, but you kinda have to try them for yourself to know for sure.

Einion

 

[ced1106]

Since you're new to painting, get the Reaper Learn to Paint Kits. I usually suggest starting with LTPK2: Beginning Skin and Cloth. I also hear good things about Vallejo Air Model Silver as the best acrylic metallic.

Michael's and other craft stores have 40% off coupons, so check there first for painting supplies: Masters Brush, Clear Gesso, Matte Medium, Varnish, etc.

As a beginner, I use size 1 round pretty much all the time. I should use my size 2, but don't, and haven't gotten a size 0 yet.

For primer, I use Rustoleum primer for plastic: black, grey, and white. Once you get the hang of spray priming, see zenithal priming. Primer and paint sold at hobby stores carries a risk of the paint being old.

Drybrushing is just another tool. You'll use a crap brush for this, again from Michael's. Drybrushing is often used in terrain.

 

[Piotr]

Does this look like something I should be getting?

http://www.amazon.de/500ml-Finish-R...=1369134000&sr=8-1&keywords=grundierung+spray

Grundierung is Primer in German

 

[Bloodhowl]

Does this look like something I should be getting?

http://www.amazon.de/500ml-Finish-R...=1369134000&sr=8-1&keywords=grundierung+spray

Grundierung is Primer in German

Give it a try. It "should" be fine. Without a few people providing any first hand accounts of using the stuff, it's hard to say that it WILL be fit for purpose. To minimize any problems, make sure you review/read the previous threads on using spray primers, like this one: http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums...ood-priming-techniques&highlight=spray+primer

 

[Einion]

Piotr, yes that looks like it might do and price is similar to what I usually pay here (also in Euros).

Grey is incidentally my recommended primer colour for most subjects, I think black and white primers are only suited to dark- and light-coloured minis respectively.

Einion