New Painter

[Ryder]

My first post here.
New painter here in need of some advice. Recently got into i-48 combat ,which is fun and low start up cost game. Have been playing with paper figs for the moment. Now that i have the minis painting has started. View attachment 13593 I have questions and some issues to overcome. Have done some reading and watched some videos ,but still need a ton of practice.

The main questions i have at the moment are paint thinning (which seems to be a art in itself ) and brush/paint control (may be wrong term). As far as paint thinning goes ,is there a good way to know when paint is too thin for highlights and shadows ? I am under the impression that you want the paint to be a skim milk consistency and transparent.

But what i have found is when too thin seems to get a chalking appearance after several passes. Using distilled water to thin paint.

My next issues is what i call brush or paint control. Seems like when adding highlights to the top of rounded surfaces that the paint will not go where i want it or if i stop where i want the paint it Will create a very small pool at the end of the stroke , resulting in too much paint in the area.

As i am writing this post i saw a comment on my mini "you seem to be relying heavily on washes to create the Highlight/shadow contrast personally I think working variations of tone of paint would give you a better result" and this is correct. I am using washes cause it seems the highlight is too bright in a certain area and dosen't blend well with the the shadow/basecoat which is why i ask about thinning.

I will ask question on blending after i learn to thin paint better and practiced more.

Any advice would be a great help. And Thanks in advance for all that take the time to help someone learn.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Glad to see you took my advise.

Your question about the paint moving away from where you want it to be is suggestive of too much liquid, the trick is to get the brush loaded (about 1/3rd) of the tip and touch it to a folded paper towel to remove excess moisture, then use it on the model.
Also remember that the point at which you take off the brush is the point where you leave the most paint.

As for using washes don't be put off by what I said Washes can be very helpful, its just getting the hang of how to use them. A lot of painters when starting tend to use them all over the miniature instead of being selective and only Painting the wash where it needs to go. Such as painting it only in the deepest folds as a shadow.
Learning the trick of using the wash as a paint takes practise but thats all anyone needs to apply to start getting better.

 

[Ryder]

Thanks for the advice , might have been loading the brush up too much. I have been loading the brush about 1/2 way and then taking excess off with paper towel.

Cleaned and primed the next mini in the i-48 combat line last night. Hopefully i don't have to strip and repaint as many times as the last one.

 

[Milosh]

You'll get the hang of it. As Dragon said the key is to unload the brush to the point it seems there is nothing left. You can use the "last place the brush was" to your advantage. When painting highlites make sure the brush is going to stop at the highest highlite point. If painting the cheeks your brush stroke will stop at the top of the cheek. This helps create the almost glowing highlites of really well painted figures. The opposite applies with your shadows. Keep painting because you will improve with each new piece.

 

[Ryder]

Thanks for the advice.

Using the posted pic as example ,between minis legs the bubbled out part of the jacket.

Would i start the brush stroke towards the center of the bubble then end at the top , or is that too far to start the brush stroke? (sure i will learn with practice but a starting ref. point is nice to know)

Think that i will base coat the next mini tonight(if i got time) and post in the wip section.

 

[Milosh]

Let me pick something that is more obvious because that area you are talking about is too easy to get confused on without physically showing you. Take the helmet, if doing the highlite your stroke would go from the bottom of the helmet to the top. Shadow would be from top to bottom. Don't use too small of a brush either, use a nice mid-size brush like a 1 or 0 to cut down on visible brush strokes.

 

[Einion]

The main questions i have at the moment are paint thinning (which seems to be a art in itself ) and brush/paint control (may be wrong term). As far as paint thinning goes ,is there a good way to know when paint is too thin for highlights and shadows ? I am under the impression that you want the paint to be a skim milk consistency and transparent.

Thinning paint is indeed a bit of an art in itself. Within certain limits there is no such thing as too thin, the main factors to bear in mind are the practical goals (tabletop standard or a lot better) and the time/results thing (is spending more time worth it, are you getting better results than if you were painting more quickly).

But what i have found is when too thin seems to get a chalking appearance after several passes. Using distilled water to thin paint.

This tends to be a colour thing more than an issue with over-diluted paint - you can literally use paint thinned to the level of dirty water without tending to get a 'chalky' look. There's a lot more on this in previous threads (perennial problem) if you want to read more but one of the key things to watch for is the one mentioned in this current thread on drybrushing.

My next issues is what i call brush or paint control. Seems like when adding highlights to the top of rounded surfaces that the paint will not go where i want it or if i stop where i want the paint it Will create a very small pool at the end of the stroke , resulting in too much paint in the area.

As already mentioned, sounds like the brush is overloaded - broadly speaking damp brush, not wet is what to aim for.

As i am writing this post i saw a comment on my mini "you seem to be relying heavily on washes to create the Highlight/shadow contrast personally I think working variations of tone of paint would give you a better result" and this is correct. I am using washes cause it seems the highlight is too bright in a certain area and dosen't blend well with the the shadow/basecoat which is why i ask about thinning.

A glaze, as distinct from a wash*, is a good way to tone down highlights that have gone too far as well as to smooth out some colour transitions, but it's better to try to avoid the issue in the first place (again, depending on the results and speed required).

*Can be paint at the same dilution, just as a wash it's flooded onto the surface and as a glaze it's laid on in a smooth, even coat from a lightly-loaded brush.

Einion

 

[Ryder]

Thanks for all the advice so far great info.

Last night i base coated part of the mini using very thinned down paint , took a long time. ( can't believe the clock on the wall said 1 am and i wasn't done base coating)

The advice on loading the brush and how the brush should look helped out a ton.

On this mini i will be spending lot more time , gonna go slow and learn better control and how to use the brush and paint to my advantage.

Einion thanks for pointing out the time factor , at this point id like to just be able to paint a mini and have someone say "hey cool mini ! ".

Also in regards to the chalky paint , think the problem encountered was being that i had problems with paint not going where it was needed/wanted and was moving the paint before it totally dry .

And by the time i moved the paint it was semi dry and instead of painting was in a way dry brushing.

Chalky may have been the wrong term now that i look back the word should have been textured (i.e sorta bumpy should have taken a picture of what i met before mini was stripped).

After base coat and first set of shadows i will post mini in wip section (not sure when it will be posted, thought the base coat would have been done last night ) , going to do shadows without the use of a wash.

And again thanks for the advice everyone.

 

[Einion]

Last night i base coated part of the mini using very thinned down paint , took a long time. ( can't believe the clock on the wall said 1 am and i wasn't done base coating)

Painting over black by any chance? This is one of the main reasons people move away from black primer/undercoat, how long it can take to cover. But that aside, unless you're doing a competition-level paintjob you don't need to thin paint excessively for undercoating. Where I'm undercoating by brush I'd often aim for about the consistency of cream, which tends to be the sweet spot between (too) diluted, and hence lacking in coverage, and not dilute enough so that it can be prone to leaving brushmarks.

This does depend a bit on the paint though - some colours are naturally much more opaque than others so you can thin the heck out of them and not take too much of a hit in opacity, but others are notorious for having poor coverage at the best of times so you want to thin them as little as you can get away with.

Also in regards to the chalky paint , think the problem encountered was being that i had problems with paint not going where it was needed/wanted and was moving the paint before it totally dry .

And by the time i moved the paint it was semi dry and instead of painting was in a way dry brushing.

WRT this, if you don't already own one worth picking up a hairdryer to speed-dry the paint between coats. Even with the natural quick drying of acrylic and vinyl paint sometimes you want it to dry even faster.

Einion

 

[Ryder]

Yes am painting over black primer (your Psychic ) Thinking of switching to maybe a grey primer . The reason paint was thinned was i wanted to learn and experiment a bit .

Was gonna start to shade when i looked at the last mini ,maybe there's a better shade color was searching color wheels to find a good color and...

http://kuler.adobe.com/#themes/mostpopular?time=0

Dam that's cool

 

[Einion]

Kuler's pretty good, but every time it comes up I like to point out that it doesn't feature a standard full colour wheel* so all the colour relationships are a bit skewed - Cyan should face Red, Green should face Magenta etc. and as you can see if you check, on Kuler they don't.

In case you're using complements, it's also worth mentioning again that complementary colours on a wheel don't necessarily equal complementary colours in paint.

Einion

*Deliberately, but Adobe won't confirm why.

 

[Ryder]

So many different things to know. Read some on colors ,read on painting , and posting just to get a bit of a grip.

Is there a recommendation for a color wheel or chart that i could buy/download that would help more?

Have to post in the wip section( oh yes gotta read some on photography too) but i'm using a soviet uniform color green style ( will post color # later) looking for a good color for shading the green ( used a dark blue last time was thinking maybe brown this time) .

The catch to this is i would like to use the green as a base then tint/highlight (probably using wrong terms) with a khaki color as from research soviet uniforms were mixed matched old/new uniforms. So id like to have some the green color showing through a bit. Also i would assume that the color to make khaki brighter for the highlights is yellow . Now that i have doubts about colors

Next Mini Posted In WIP section

 

[The Imperial Painter]

This is a good colour wheel http://www.coolminiornot.com/articles/1194-the-mystic-color-theory!

When shading, try the complementary colour for green (which is red). You can mix a dark red with a dark green (or use purely dark red) and apply it as a glaze/wash in the recesses.

Everything else looks good to start with but I would read the page that I have provided a link for and test some of the ideas included in it.

Tom

 

[Einion]

This is a good colour wheel http://www.coolminiornot.com/articles/1194-the-mystic-color-theory!

When shading, try the complementary colour for green (which is red). You can mix a dark red with a dark green (or use purely dark red) and apply it as a glaze/wash in the recesses.

The visual complement of green is actually magenta*, not red. But as I mention above, in practice things don't work like theory suggests they should anyway.

*Any colour wheel which doesn't feature cyan and magenta is missing two key hues and is likely based on red-yellow-blue theory, which is very out of date by now.

Einion

 

[Ryder]

Thanks for the link , my browser must be messed up . Actually was in that section but couldn't get to page 2 in misc section and other sections. May have to ask admin bout that .

Thanks for the advice also einion .