New Style White Dwarf

[dogfacedboy uk1]

I actually assumed when they made the announcement it would be of a digital edition rather than a relaunch...

well thank the gods it wasnt that. hardly exciting at all if that was going to be it lol.

i really am keeping my fingers croseed that they have woken up, smelt the coffee and realised the current White Dwarf is a pile of shit. It was great once and it can be again. Just needs to get away from the self obssessed in house product catalogue design as that is all it really is of course. I want to read interviews with the designers - I want to see photos of their sketchbooks, notes, their untidy working office/studio. I want something interesting, not battle reports and endless waffling about how great their products are and you really need to buy it. We are not cash cows, we are fellow hobbyists - treat us with respect! I want to see awesomely painted armies of its readers and blah blah. A lot can be done with it, even in the face of online competition. Magazines have had the internet to compete with for a long while now, they have survived but will always need to be on top of their game to offer something you cant get elsewhere for free.

dfb

 

[Tommie Soule]

Printed means I'll take it to read on the bog and in the bath.

paper win.

 

[Dragonsreach]

We are not cash cows, we are fellow hobbyists - treat us with respect! DFB just think about that for a minute or two!

I want to see awesomely painted armies of its readers and blah blah. A lot can be done with it, even in the face of online competition.Absolutley. Think of the response if the likes of James Wapell's stuff showed up in WD. Readers would have "Sh*tfit" at seeing what CAN be done.

Magazines have had the internet to compete with for a long while now, they have survived but will always need to be on top of their game to offer something you cant get elsewhere for free.
Ah but the internet is a product of the Chaos Gods and has to be ignored. In terms of internet presence/useability GW are Luddites. If they weren't their Golden Deamon would include electronic pre-registration and therefore speedier entry. If you ignore the anti-social media GW have not embraced internet technology anywhere near their competitors.
In fact most schools have better internet capability/user ability than this international business. In point of fact GW's attempt at forums was so much of an embarrasment because of the levels of complaints about rules errors and cost increases is was closed faster than an Ostrich buries its head.

................

 

[RuneBrush]

What they need is a webzine, that would cost them less than a 100th the price of producing, that compiles the otherwise scattered information.

Really sorry to disagree, but that's complete rubbish. A webzine would cost less to physically create (in printing costs) but would cost exactly the same to actually produce. Though my main job is web development I work in the publishing industry - in fact it's niche publishing too. The actual printing cost of White Dwarf is likely in the region of 25~50p per edition, likely including distribution. I would imagine that the cost of designing, editing, proof reading (in multiple languages) is at least £1 ~ £2. It wouldn't surprise me if sometimes the cost increases if there is a particular piece of hand created artwork (rather than 100% digital). Additionally a digital edition would need to be hosted somewhere, incurring costs from there.

 

[RuneBrush]

In fact most schools have better internet capability/user ability than this international business. In point of fact GW's attempt at forums was so much of an embarrasment because of the levels of complaints about rules errors and cost increases is was closed faster than an Ostrich buries its head.

Hehe, I actually think most schools have better internet capability than many companies! I've done work in a school down the road who has a 100 mb connection and pretty decent machines. Comparatively at the time we had dual ADSL

 

[AndyG]

Printed means I'll take it to read on the bog and in the bath.

paper win.

Same thing with the iPad reading on the bog or in the bath. Even better realy as you get that little frission of fear wether your going to drop a £300 device in the bath water:laugh:

 

[10 ball]

LOL or down the toilet LOL

 

[elgazzo]

i know theres a lot of hate for GW out there but from people i've spoke too, a lot of the guys there are genuinely into the hobby. however, being a publically trading company they are at the mercy of shareholders and bigwigs who want as large a return on their investment as possible. i s'pose i just don't like it when people say ' GW is shit and i hate them ' , just remember its not the guys who do the hard grafts fault, blame the greedy fuckers who want their money with no thought to how much it costs you. rant over

 

[Dedwrekka]

It's easy to be a GW hater but at the same time they help introduce people into our hobby everyday. And a growing hobby benefits everyone, whether your more gamer or more a painter. Many GW customers have found their way to many of the other tabletop games or have learned the basics of painting through GW efforts.
Although it makes sense to make the magazine a digital download, it makes more sense to have this something shiny in stores that the potential new customer will thumb through.
I don't want GW to fail, I just want more of its competition to share in its success.

While that may have been an argument for some time, it's quickly losing it's ground. The growth of local, national and international conventions that embrace all manner of gaming and general geekdom are introducing a lot of people to the hobby. The absence of Games Workshop at these events isn't unnoticed or unnoted. They continually shoot themselves in the foot by shunning conventions not about them, and even independent conventions entirely for their hobby. Privateer Press, and Reaper as well, has gained considerable attention and growth from looking at how Games Workshop promotes itself and doing the opposite. They show up in non-GW-centric magazines and interviews, they show up at just about any convention you can imagine miniatures at, and they're constantly looking outside the hobby to bring in new people.


Seriously, this is a company that literally built itself selling other people's products, and they continued to do that for a time after acquiring Citadel and becoming miniature and game makers themselves. For the past decade or two, though, they've been constantly avoiding the outside world, always remaining insular in their promotion and shunning the huge growth of the gaming industry and media. They should be the gaming world's Apple, always showing up with the best promoted products on the market at every convention and industry meet. They have the most expansive gaming world and the most customizable gaming system and story. There's not another system that provides the option to decide just about everything about every single aspect of what you're playing with and still have it be internally consistent with the established system outside of pen-and-paper games. They should be everywhere by now. Instead they're the insecure child that locked themselves in their room to shun the outside world.


Here's the question you have to ask yourself to find out if Games Workshop is in touch with the current community: Would they ever run a Kickstarter campaign? The question has a lot more to it than popularity or with Kickstarter itself. It's about whether Games Workshop would ever even look outside itself to realize that the options available to it.

i know theres a lot of hate for GW out there but from people i've spoke too, a lot of the guys there are genuinely into the hobby. however, being a publically trading company they are at the mercy of shareholders and bigwigs who want as large a return on their investment as possible. i s'pose i just don't like it when people say ' GW is shit and i hate them ' , just remember its not the guys who do the hard grafts fault, blame the greedy fuckers who want their money with no thought to how much it costs you. rant over

I don't think anyone believes that the people in GW are anything but in love with the hobby. However that doesn't translate into an ability to sell the hobby, to understand other people who love the hobby, or to successfully promote it. In some ways hiring people who are fans of the product may be failing the company in the end. Also, it's in the stock holder's best interest for the company to continue to improve, not to remain stagnant.

 

[Mantra]

I REALLY hate all the GW 'bashers' and 'Haters'...Its always the same, the simple solution is this...If you have a problem with GW or their products/prices...Don't buy it, stop whinging about it and buy an alternative...
The reality IS that 99.9% of you would not be into the hobby if it wasn't for GW and the fantastic universes they have created...I personally think there is a very good reason WHY they are th biggest mini company out there..They are the best at what they do. Yes, their prices are higher and yes, the white dwarf has gone a bit off track the last year or two, but they are still the best (in my opinion).
I am still like a giggly school girl every month when WD comes out (although very dissapointed at times with the lack of painting/hobby article), because I remember where it all started for me, and in my eyes NO other company has come close to GW, Their minis are superb and getting better all the time (just look at the dark vengeances box) and their literature is second to none (black library), and add forge world to the mix too and its all pretty good. And, if THEIR mag has become a bit of a catologue for their products, so what, I quite like that. I am always looking at old issues to see how certain minis look.
Be realistic people...as a company grows, its overheads grow...Do you all think it costs nothing to have all the art work and books written for their products, and the photographers and the injection moulding machines, operators and designers employed??? As well as having an open centre (warhammer world) and to take all that stuff around the world for Games Days...Are they REALLY the 'bad' guys...
I have been ito this hobby for over 30 years now, and I STILL love GW...
Has CoolMini just become a forum for people to 'whinge'???

 

[PegaZus]

The reality IS that 99.9% of you would not be into the hobby if it wasn't for GW and the fantastic universes they have created...

Yay! I'm a 0.1%er! I feel so special!

Has CoolMini just become a forum for people to 'whinge'???

What forum isn't? And a lot of the whining you're hearing are from people who felt that their loyalty means nothing to GW, and point to WD as proof.

Skip the next two lines if you want. I don't mind.

And so, to sum up, GW gets extremely little of my money. And really, none of it first hand (thank you eBay!). I don't get giddy at their new releases. I find the majority of their IP droll and repetitive.

But hey; opinions are like <redacted> and everybody's got one.

If only you lived on a house boat to the west a bit, somewhere in the ocean near Indonesia. Then we could say we're truly polar opposites. Lots harder to throw stones at each other when we are, tho. :doctor:

 

[10 ball]

I'm still in love with the GW from when I was 10 years old, playing heroquest for hours, staring at the how to paint guide and dreaming of winning a golden demon.
Yes white dwarf has become a sales brouchure, finecast is not fine and the prices are sky high but that love will shine on.

 

[Talion]

Yeah, it's not so much hate, but a desperate cry, a slap across the proverbial face of GW.

Go back to your roots a hobby magazine not an "Toys R Us" catalogue and shop. Bring us back the stories, the RPG elements, the master classes.

Who wants to read a battle report, or 3......

I want GW and white dwarf to fire the furnace of my imagination......like it used too.

 

[Egrimm van Horstmann]

I'm in this hobby for over 20 years. GW was relatively small at that time. There were no GW stores, you bought their suff in regular hobby stores. However, most of the fluff was existent back then. It was created by a bunch of people who loved what they did. It was possible to create such a great world with great illustrations without the 'overhead' machinery, GW has become. These people are still around, but none of them are working for GW anymore (as far as I'm aware).
Mantra states, that you should not buy their stuff, if you think it's too expensive. True. But only to a certain point. Many people invested a lot of money and time into this hobby. They like to play the game. But GW decided to change the way the game works out of commercial reasons. If you want to continue playing, you have to buy new stuff. Otherwise you don't find people to play with or get beaten every time. The choice not to buy has the consequence not to play and quit the game. That's why people are mad at GW.

cheers, Egrimm
(still wallowing in good old times where GW has not fallen to the dark side)

 

[AndyG]

14 years old a bit of a loner then along comes GW wow loads of playing and painting and clubs were other uber nerd kids just like me could play. Love the IP love love love GW.
Get older and start to notice the price hikes but you put up with it. Older still and start thinking hey thats a total rip off but keep going in store because I love em. Final straw finecast green knight total shit nearly TWICE the price for a lump of crap and eavy metal masterclass gone from white dwarf and even though Im subscribed i get it later.

So market driven finecrap hugely inflated price hikes in the middle of the largest economic down turn of our times and a f*ck you buddy pay me attitude. Love turns to hate.

If I didnt care so much about GW and Warhammer FB / 40K then I'd just go meh so what. But it is because I feel I own a little piece of it because of the huge effect its had in my youth that I DO give a damn. Just have a screaming fit when I'm lied to about the next great modelling material which is lets face it a by-word in the hobby circles for total crap.......thats very expensive to boot.

FFFFFFFF got it off my chest Hah feel like ive gone to a group therapy and bared my deepest secrets Lol

 

[10 ball]

<stands up and faces the group>
"Hello my names 10 ball and i'm a games workshopoholic "
<group claps>

 

[RuneBrush]

Lol are we going to have to ask for a private forum for GW addicts? Best sign up now hadn't I?

 

[me_in_japan]

What AndyG said - absolutely how I feel about it, too. Throw in a complaint about their obscene mark up for overseas customers, and you have my reasons why I no longer buy GW. And that, btw, is why I am bothered by Games Workshop (not the sculptors, artists and game designers. They are not Games Workshop. They are employees of Games Workshop. Games Workshop itself is a group of suits round a table.) Basically, I want to buy their stuff. I really do. I just cannot in good conscience pay that much for such poor quality. I'm fairly specific about it, too. I still buy Black Library books because theyre priced much the same as other paperback novels. I still buy FW because its priced much the same as other high-detail resin sculpts. I do not buy fiinecast or plastic GW models because they are so much more expensive than every other company out there that I just can't justify it to myself. That and the fact that finecast is such unutterably poor quality its beyond a joke.

A quick comparison. The prices below are what I pay to get the mini in my hands, via mail order:

1 Khador Vladimir from PP via Maelstrom - 6.25GBP = 797JPY
1 Malifaux Sonya (alt sculpt) via Maelstrom - 6.30 = 803JPY
1 Studio McVey Ltd Edition Ar-Fienel - 12.99 = 1657
1 FW CSM nurgle sorcerer - 13.00 (+15% shipping= 14.95) = 1907
1 GW finecast Marneus Calgar = 2300yen

The reason I do not buy GW products at discount rates from Maelstrom is because GW won't let me. All internet dealers have been banned by GW from selling their product outside of their own economic zone (be that europe or america). The only place I can buy GW stuff is from GWJapan.

So, as the above figures clearly demonstrate, finecast is the single most expensive hobby option I have. It would be cheaper for me to proxy Studio McVey limited edition resin pieces.

It seems to me that GW are clearly making it as financially difficult as possible for me to continue playing the game I have spent 20 years of my life investing my time, money and effort into. This is why I am angry with them.

 

[Dedwrekka]

I REALLY hate all the GW 'bashers' and 'Haters'...Its always the same, the simple solution is this...If you have a problem with GW or their products/prices...Don't buy it, stop whinging about it and buy an alternative...
The reality IS that 99.9% of you would not be into the hobby if it wasn't for GW and the fantastic universes they have created...I personally think there is a very good reason WHY they are th biggest mini company out there..They are the best at what they do. Yes, their prices are higher and yes, the white dwarf has gone a bit off track the last year or two, but they are still the best (in my opinion).
I am still like a giggly school girl every month when WD comes out (although very dissapointed at times with the lack of painting/hobby article), because I remember where it all started for me, and in my eyes NO other company has come close to GW, Their minis are superb and getting better all the time (just look at the dark vengeances box) and their literature is second to none (black library), and add forge world to the mix too and its all pretty good. And, if THEIR mag has become a bit of a catologue for their products, so what, I quite like that. I am always looking at old issues to see how certain minis look.
Be realistic people...as a company grows, its overheads grow...Do you all think it costs nothing to have all the art work and books written for their products, and the photographers and the injection moulding machines, operators and designers employed??? As well as having an open centre (warhammer world) and to take all that stuff around the world for Games Days...Are they REALLY the 'bad' guys...
I have been ito this hobby for over 30 years now, and I STILL love GW...
Has CoolMini just become a forum for people to 'whinge'???

Here's the thing, I love GW. I buy tons of their product even though I still have so little time to paint and no real time to play anymore. I sell their worlds to people I know because in terms of scope, it's the best setting I've ever found in any game system. At the same time it's defined without being rigid and open without being unknown.

However, that is exactly why I get disappointed with them and frustrated when they make a wrong turn. Because I love GW. I love what it could be and I get frustrated when it doesn't live up to that potential. It's disappointing to see GW cut up and sell off their IP to people who have no idea what draws you to the IP. It's frustrating to see GW constantly stay so insular and avoid real promotional opportunities that are out there for them. It's disappointing to see people all awaiting GW to be something more than what it is right now, and constantly have to wait on them to mature as a company and as a brand. I love GW, and that's why I'm constantly disappointed with them.

 

[dogfacedboy uk1]

Yeah second Dedwrekka's point!!! We love GW's game world and design folk, we hate the companies attitude and direction. I am going to games day and I wont be getting a miniature, but they will be certain to hassle me to buy one. Why should I? White Dwarf is nothing more than a product catalogue and has been for a lot longer than "the last couples of years" as Mantra said. I remember bitching about this as a kid, and that was a LONG time ago.We all saw through this ploy then by the way. Yet it could be a GREAT magazine with a different attitude. They never attend any other events, why? There business strategy makes little sense to me. They could be the biggest and the best but they are not. They have great sculptors and writers but the men at the top need to be kicked out of their executive chairs and a great, fat, sweaty bloke with a beard, who ALWAYS carries a d20 in his back pocket, and who can sculpt, draw, paint and write fantastic imaginative works in his sleep needs to flop his fat arse in that chair and take over!! And yes this companies attitudes makes me angry to....but ultimately my childhood memories are fond and underneath I will always LOVE the guys who work there. I just wont be buying much product until things change....

dfb

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