Nice to see the top 10 is a farce again...

[skeeve]

Originally posted by Spacemunkie
You\'re talking about a \'community\' Anders, but to the vast majority of people who use CMON, it\'s just a website. You\'re judging people on a code of conduct that has become the consensus of a handful of people on the forums. Forums that most CMON users never even visit.

Point is, if it gets people\'s knickers in a twist so much and is so important, legislate against it and don\'t expect everyone to be mind-readers!

Another VERY salient point. To often lately \"community\" here (as a group of people who submited over 130000 images) is being replace by a very small group of people (I venture to guess it is less then 1%) who spend their time posting and watching forums non-stop.
What you all complain about is a minor technical issue, if technical issue annoy you so there is a solution - talk to Chern and write some code to solve that technical issue. If you are unable to do so, you of cause can keep complaining. I for once am very annoyed by inability of Excell to combined several fonts in one cell. Will I stop using Excell because of this? Hardly. So, what\'s the point then attacking people over minor technical issue? As I said before unintended consequences are the easiest to predict.

 

[Ritual]

I don\'t see what\'s wrong with caring a bit about the community we do have and the site in general? Yes, the forum community is a small part of the bigger \"community\", which probably consists mostly of inactive members and people who don\'t care one bit about the site and only use it for their own purposes. But, what\'s the harm in discussing issues like this, however minor they may be, and try to reach some sort of understanding with those who actually are willing to come here and talk?

Sometimes, harsh words can be spoken about people, but that\'s life... we can always talk about it and apologise, if apologies are warranted (I did so above). But I really dislike the attitude that we shouldn\'t discuss matters about how this site works and that we (the forum community) are just a drop in the ocean and shouldn\'t care about the site. Why not? If we don\'t then who will? What will happen to the site if people stop caring about it? Enough people already use the site without caring for it...

As for contacting Chern and \"make changes to the site\".... have you tried that lately? How many new features haven\'t been suggested and discussed over the years? How many of these have been implemented?

 

[Legacy Account]

This has nothing to do with people not caring - quite the opposite in fact.

It\'s about trying to ensure that episodes like this don\'t happen in the first place or get dealt with in an appropriate manner by site \'authorities\' and not by what could appear to be a lynch mob. It\'s not a good look

If you don\'t make expectations of members explicit, how are you supposed to keep the \'community\' running smoothly? If it\'s not a job mods can or want to do, then I reckon it\'s best left alone by everyone else.

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by Spacemunkie
If you don\'t make expectations of members explicit, how are you supposed to keep the \'community\' running smoothly?

Not talking about it all is not going to help, that\'s for sure. Since this site doesn\'t have any \"authorities\" to speak of (or so it seems) and the moderators can\'t deal with situations that the site doesn\'t offer tools for dealing with, I figure the best way to \"care for the site\" is having open discussions about things like this. At least, that way, there is a possibility for people who care enough to actually find out what people think is good conduct. They are free to do whatever they like with that information, of course, but at least it is available. A dialogue can hardly be labeled as \"mob rule\", can it?

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by Spacemunkie
You\'re talking about a \'community\' Anders, but to the vast majority of people who use CMON, it\'s just a website. You\'re judging people on a code of conduct that has become the consensus of a handful of people on the forums.

Fair point. But I do have to say, why shouldn\'t we have more say than anonymous users who don\'t give two hoots about the site in the way we do?

Originally posted by Spacemunkie
Point is, if it gets people\'s knickers in a twist so much and is so important, legislate against it and don\'t expect everyone to be mind-readers!

Might be the best thing in the long run.

Originally posted by Ritual
Not talking about it all is not going to help, that\'s for sure. Since this site doesn\'t have any \"authorities\" to speak of (or so it seems) and the moderators can\'t deal with situations that the site doesn\'t offer tools for dealing with, I figure the best way to \"care for the site\" is having open discussions about things like this.

And it makes the point that those involved in the community on a wider level - us, the people talking here on the forums - both have, and deserve to have, more input.

Einion

 

[Legacy Account]

As long as that input doesn\'t involve actively policing the site, that\'s fine.

 

[Legacy Account]

Anders, you\'re completely missing my point.

A dialogue and consensus of opinion about an aspect of the site that can be improved is a good thing. We agree on that.

Point is, how is the wider community supposed to know when they\'re stepping on the wicket so to speak if we don\'t make things entirely transparent.

Easiest way to do this is to have a mod post about it in the news forum (probably several times over the course of several months), change the T&Cs and then members can inform a mod if they think someone is taking the piss so that the mods can deal with it. Use the excuse of bandwidth rationing if need be.

That\'s a practical, workable solution that goes further than just blathering about stuff.

 

[Shadzar]

Originally posted by Einion

Originally posted by Spacemunkie
You\'re talking about a \'community\' Anders, but to the vast majority of people who use CMON, it\'s just a website. You\'re judging people on a code of conduct that has become the consensus of a handful of people on the forums.

Fair point. But I do have to say, why shouldn\'t we have more say than anonymous users who don\'t give two hoots about the site in the way we do?
Einion

There is a problem thinking the forums users have more rights than the gallery users.

The entry to the website for one. Many people may come to the site form a gallery entry linked on another site, and see the site as a place to vote on minis and show them off.

Forums on the other hand, like the articles is just a little thing in the sidebar.

The site looks most like a place to show off and buy mini related stuff. The main page is mostly product advertisement.

The gallery takes you from one image of a mini to the next. The forums are an afterthought for many.

Heck I didn\'t even know they existed the first year I was on the site.

Like many other sites with forums, they are really supplementary to the main focus of the site. Offered as a perk to the users, but not as the main goal of the site.

So while it would be nice to have more coverage of things in the forums, it isn\'t a requirement to use the galleries for voting, or just for free image hotlinking/hosting.

I was looking in the Bottom 10 section just the other day, and saw an image in there of an army that way for sale on eBay with the eBay link in the description with the picture of the items for sale, to circumvent, or prior to the eBay tracking service offered here.

So 100 images free hosting, hotlinking allowed, and unlimited bandwidth means the forums really mean little to those people just wanting to get exposure from a place that seems like it would give them credit for their work, or just free hosting.

Also CMoN has about 7 different forums on it.

The galleries effectively are forums with each image/entry as a topic with the comments, articles are the same, you have the forum forums here that we are using, you have the shoutbox thing which is effectively yet another forum, and the blogs now that are practically their own forums within them with the comments and such.

CMoN pioneered a forum and built in CMS before vBulletin and phpBB3, but it is a bit outmoded, and people not used ot looking at things and systems set up from over a decade ago, may not recognize CMoN ofering this type of thing before MYSpace and Facebook even, and don\'t know how to recognize all the sections of the site.

Add to that the gallery section isn\'t really updated with the times for showing things, and how things always move around on you with the ads for eBay minis and such, so new users may not even know about the whole site.

So while CMoN started a lot of things before other places, it hasn\'t changed much, and sadly people expect everything to look and work the same way.

So any rules for images and such need to be clearly on the upload an image page, down at the bottom of the \"add/edit pictures\" area, and more explanations about what the site is for there, so those not knowing about the forums can find it correctly.

The forum users on CMoN are the minority. They may contribute to each other more than those just using the blogs or gallery, but overall, they are just a subset of a larger user base.

The forums users I would say would get more say in what goes on in the forums, since others not using them don\'t take part, then what input to the forums, could they really have that would be productive?

In order to turn CMoN into some MYSpace type thing, then all its sections would need to be integrated, the system would need ot be overhauled or rebuilt. There is time and money in their that maybe the admins just can\'t afford to spend to make this site a full blog/forum/gallery/voting site that is fully integrated with each other.

So sadly CMoN is several sites with varying focuses on the same domain. It offers these different sections for the people that want them, but doesn\'t require you to participate in any except the ones you want to.

 

[laurence]

Fair Go

Poor ol\' Pinnen! He\'s been singled out in my opinion for something that\'s obviously been annoying some members here for a long time. It doesn\'t bother me however. Why start a thread bashing him? Just PM him like Atacam did. I\'m sure the rules could be adjusted to solve this problem. Simple!

As far as community goes... This is all in your minds and not a reality. At least not for me. I\'ve been posting fairly regularly in these forums since joining this site in 2003. I\'m yet to make a friend here, and I\'m sure that most of my posts go unread. That\'s cool.

I just hope Pinnen continues to post pics of his cool minis after this thread.

 

[ScottRadom]

Haven\'t made a friend? What do you mean? I don\'t get to go for beers with these guys or anything but you can still call them eBuddies, or inter-friends (though that sounds a little gay). Since 2003 you haven\'t had a friendly banter with any if the members here? And I know for a fact I\'ve replied to your posts, because I remember thinking \"Where the hell IS this guy posting from?\".

Cheer up amigo!

As for the issue at hand, it is annoying. I Pm\'d a dude back a couple months ago that posting tons of angles of his land raiders right sponson was a breach of the sort of netiquete established around here and that he might get less then favorable feedback then he otherwise would if he limited his images.

My issue with multiple posts is that I usually have about a 10 minute window for browsing at a time. It\'s frustrating to see the same fig from many different angles so soon after each other. That\'s all. The scoring thing doesn\'t really bug me. I\'m unhealthily obsessed with my own numbers and not neccessarily anyone elses.

If I was this guy, I don\'t think I\'d bother with this joint. It sucks that his introduction to the forums was a post discussing behavior deemed annoying by the forum dwellers with his own work used as the most recent example. I\'m not saying it was unneccesarily harsh or anything, just that it sucks for the dude. I hope he sticks around though, there are some good people to learn from and with as well as shoot the breeze about cheery topics like assisted suicide and such. GOOD TIMES!

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by Spacemunkie
As long as that input doesn\'t involve actively policing the site, that\'s fine.

The input can be about policing the site though, because that\'s a perfectly natural subject for discussion.

And honestly, highlighting something like this doesn\'t ultimately serve the community (all of it, not just us)? No way.

What might be \'gamesmanship\' is of course going to come up. Just like sniping and the reverse. That\'s just the way things are. If there were nothing significant about the scores for multiple gallery entries then maybe this would be a non-issue; but since those scores do mean something, tracked by the site for anyone that wants to...

Just to go back to \'actively policing\' - like it or not, this is something which is done in various ways already, through PMs, comments and other avenues that aren\'t as above board. And in the forums there\'s the Report button; so it\'s not like the site isn\'t set up for direct member involvement in policing issues.

Einion

 

[laurence]

Originally posted by ScottRadom
Haven\'t made a friend? What do you mean? I don\'t get to go for beers with these guys or anything but you can still call them eBuddies, or inter-friends (though that sounds a little gay). Since 2003 you haven\'t had a friendly banter with any if the members here? And I know for a fact I\'ve replied to your posts, because I remember thinking \"Where the hell IS this guy posting from?\".

Cheer up amigo!

As for the issue at hand, it is annoying. I Pm\'d a dude back a couple months ago that posting tons of angles of his land raiders right sponson was a breach of the sort of netiquete established around here and that he might get less then favorable feedback then he otherwise would if he limited his images.

My issue with multiple posts is that I usually have about a 10 minute window for browsing at a time. It\'s frustrating to see the same fig from many different angles so soon after each other. That\'s all. The scoring thing doesn\'t really bug me. I\'m unhealthily obsessed with my own numbers and not neccessarily anyone elses.

If I was this guy, I don\'t think I\'d bother with this joint. It sucks that his introduction to the forums was a post discussing behavior deemed annoying by the forum dwellers with his own work used as the most recent example. I\'m not saying it was unneccesarily harsh or anything, just that it sucks for the dude. I hope he sticks around though, there are some good people to learn from and with as well as shoot the breeze about cheery topics like assisted suicide and such. GOOD TIMES!

Hi ScottRadom,
What is it with all you Canadians? You\'re all so nice and cool! I went to Toronto around a year ago and found everyone to be so friendly. My two best friends here in Taichung City, Taiwan are both Canadians. I\'m an Aussie. From Melbourne... I think that Aussies and Canadians get along really well. I do remember having a banter with ya here at CMoN a while back. You\'re officially one of my e-amigos. Hehe, I like the word you used \'netiquete\'.. I must remember to use that in the future. \'Happy Days\' to you too mate!

Happy Days to all!

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by laurence
I\'ve been posting fairly regularly in these forums since joining this site in 2003. I\'m yet to make a friend here, and I\'m sure that most of my posts go unread. That\'s cool.

What am I chopped liver??

Sure, I don\'t drop by and visit, but egads man, Taiwan is a huge commute for me!!!

(and I do read your posts...well most of them....well some of them.....sometimes, I see that you do post....Ok, Ok, so I didn\'t even know you were a member until just now!!)

 

[Gilvan Blight]

What would the harm be in adding a line in the add/edit picture section stating something like:

We would appreciate members limiting the number of submissions of the same model. Please limit your postings to a single overall picture and perhaps one or two close up pictures (which includes a shot of a squad and it\'s members separately). For information on how to make a montage of multiple images see the following article that instructs you how to do this for free. (link)

You don\'t have to enforce it, but you put the suggestion there in hopes that people follow it. Plus when they doing you can politely point out the suggestion instead of potentially offending someone by making them follow unwritten rules they have no clue exist.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by Gilvan Blight
What would the harm be in adding a line in the add/edit picture section stating something like:

We would appreciate members limiting the number of submissions of the same model. Please limit your postings to a single overall picture and perhaps one or two close up pictures (which includes a shot of a squad and it\'s members separately). For information on how to make a montage of multiple images see the following article that instructs you how to do this for free. (link)

You don\'t have to enforce it, but you put the suggestion there in hopes that people follow it. Plus when they doing you can politely point out the suggestion instead of potentially offending someone by making them follow unwritten rules they have no clue exist.

I think that works the best for me!

It would be almost impossible to police anyhow.

Also, I suggest subtle comments left on \'offending\' pictures. Peer pressure can work for us too!

 

[laurence]

male \'e\' bonding

Originally posted by supervike

Originally posted by laurence
I\'ve been posting fairly regularly in these forums since joining this site in 2003. I\'m yet to make a friend here, and I\'m sure that most of my posts go unread. That\'s cool.

What am I chopped liver??

Sure, I don\'t drop by and visit, but egads man, Taiwan is a huge commute for me!!!

(and I do read your posts...well most of them....well some of them.....sometimes, I see that you do post....Ok, Ok, so I didn\'t even know you were a member until just now!!)

Hahah.. Your posts always make me laugh or bring a smile to my face Supervike. You\'re certainly not Spam. Chopped liver? Eghhh! Sounds like something I\'d accidentally order in Japan. I\'ll forgive you for not realising I was a member till now (hehe) Adious \'e\' amigo.....

 

[Shadzar]

Originally posted by Gilvan Blight
What would the harm be in adding a line in the add/edit picture section stating something like:

We would appreciate members limiting the number of submissions of the same model. Please limit your postings to a single overall picture and perhaps one or two close up pictures (which includes a shot of a squad and it\'s members separately). For information on how to make a montage of multiple images see the following article that instructs you how to do this for free. (link)

You don\'t have to enforce it, but you put the suggestion there in hopes that people follow it. Plus when they doing you can politely point out the suggestion instead of potentially offending someone by making them follow unwritten rules they have no clue exist.

Maybe the approval system just needs and update also to help the mods?

If they see a single mini in order of uploading then they may not recognize they just saw that mini and pic a minute ago as they were approving things fast.

Instead have all recent submissions from a single user appear for approval at once.

Then a check box options with each new image and buttons for the 3 choices.

That way the mods could approve multiple minis from the same user at once, or reject multiples, etc.

Maybe that is how it already is, but only the mods know what that screen looks like.

Either way that would help the mods to see multiple images of the same thing at once, and if the exact images, then look at the descriptions for the best one for them and just approve one, rather than all?

Also help the mods work more quickly than one mini at a time, which may be the current process.

Here is all the new minis from Fred:

Click the checkboxes to perform the function on, then click the function.

Decreases server load as well when more images show on the page.

But I still don\'t get why there is an approval system unless there is a lot of porn being thrown into the system.