NMM Techniques using Metallics.
- Thread starter JesterzUSMC
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AinuLainour
New member
The idea isn\'t sh*tty, as every miniature is meant to be painted as if lit from *somewhere* so the metals are to painted in such a manner that would reflect the atmosphere and direction of the light source. There isn\'t enough depth in your paintwork and the paint itself looks rather messy. Try painting a miniature in completely flat colours and then going back to more complicated techniques. 
what you need to do is add more contrast, you need more darkness and more brightness
to emphasize brightness-->darkest shadows are always next to brightest areas or in this case reflections
you have two choices: first, perfect your blending and cleanliness and not worry about lighting ...second, perfect your placement and contrast and not worry about blending
for me, id suggest learning to contorl thinned paint, get the concepts of neatness down, and then go back and try and apply it with higher contrast
Starks
to emphasize brightness-->darkest shadows are always next to brightest areas or in this case reflections
you have two choices: first, perfect your blending and cleanliness and not worry about lighting ...second, perfect your placement and contrast and not worry about blending
for me, id suggest learning to contorl thinned paint, get the concepts of neatness down, and then go back and try and apply it with higher contrast
Starks
JesterzUSMC
Recovering Megalomaniac
Originally posted by AinuLainour
There isn\'t enough depth in your paintwork and the paint itself looks rather messy. Try painting a miniature in completely flat colours and then going back to more complicated techniques.
Not enough depth?
That\'s 3 shade/Wash (Black ink, Black + Blue Ink, Balck+Blue Ink & Midnight Blue) layers and 4 different levels of metallics (Boltgun+Black, Boltgun, Chainmail, and Mithril)...How much depth are we looking for?
JesterzUSMC
Recovering Megalomaniac
I agree with the emphasizing the contrast.
I will definately work on that! But \"neatness\", I think I can teach that...
AinuLainour
New member
Originally posted by JesterzUSMC
Originally posted by AinuLainour
There isn\'t enough depth in your paintwork and the paint itself looks rather messy. Try painting a miniature in completely flat colours and then going back to more complicated techniques.
Not enough depth?
That\'s 3 shade/Wash (Black ink, Black + Blue Ink, Balck+Blue Ink & Midnight Blue) layers and 4 different levels of metallics (Boltgun+Black, Boltgun, Chainmail, and Mithril)...How much depth are we looking for?
Inks are never the answer for quality metals! Always shade with straight colour, an example is a knight I\'m working on. I\'ve done about 200 washes of chaos black on his breastplate to get the appearance of real armour.
I took it that depth and contrast were rather similar so it\'s funny that you agreed with Starks and not myself lol
Hope that helps though..
Shading and highlighting metals, or applying NMM techniques can give some great effects. Tidocco\'s metals are great, or check out Jacob, the master of metallics.
Metals
more metals
Metals
more metals
freakinacage
Well-known member
i\'m with ainu, even i use more washes than that on my metals (and i\'m a lazy bugger!!)
you can notice the effect most on his chest (prolly where the natual light enhances the painting you have done).
the paint does seem a little patch in places - the blade and bits of the limbs. my only suggestion is a few general washes to get depth, re highlight then add spot washes to add depth to the darker bits, then tidy up a bit. i reckon that would take at least 10 washes to get something smooth and contrasty
you can notice the effect most on his chest (prolly where the natual light enhances the painting you have done).
the paint does seem a little patch in places - the blade and bits of the limbs. my only suggestion is a few general washes to get depth, re highlight then add spot washes to add depth to the darker bits, then tidy up a bit. i reckon that would take at least 10 washes to get something smooth and contrasty
funnymouth
Active member
i dont think its the number of paints/ washes you used, but rather their proportions. use mithryl sparingly, ansd shade dark areas more. ive done this quite a bit and the lighting for the photo is crucial to showcase your blending and shading. as it is you have a heavy backlighting problem and the lightsource appears to be from directly above. try photographing it in front of a black background with the light about 45 degrees from zenith. play around.
this article is simple and useful: one lamp
i think better photos would defanitely help (from experience). did the v&c.
edit: in places the blending on the metallics is a bit rough. smooth it out. dont sweat the score.
this article is simple and useful: one lamp
i think better photos would defanitely help (from experience). did the v&c.
edit: in places the blending on the metallics is a bit rough. smooth it out. dont sweat the score.
generulpoleaxe
New member
base coat with a mix of black and mithril (this makes a better base coat than boltgun) and add a bit of metal medium as well (makes it much brighter as well as giving it a more natural tone)
then start to add a mithril and metal medium mix into the mix as you highlight.
adding a bit of blue to the mix when your getting near glare spots works as well.
then you use controled glazes, wether with heavily watered down inks or with heavily watered down paint to change the tone of the metal as well as enhancing the shadows and controling how the light reflects.
4 metalic stages and 3 quick washes won\'t ever produce realy high quality results if your looking at competition pieces.
practice a lot and put the time in with your models, it\'s the only way to achieve high standards.
white dwarf articles are great for high quality gaming articles, but only a starting point for display work.
stick with it mate, it\'s worth it in the end.
then start to add a mithril and metal medium mix into the mix as you highlight.
adding a bit of blue to the mix when your getting near glare spots works as well.
then you use controled glazes, wether with heavily watered down inks or with heavily watered down paint to change the tone of the metal as well as enhancing the shadows and controling how the light reflects.
4 metalic stages and 3 quick washes won\'t ever produce realy high quality results if your looking at competition pieces.
practice a lot and put the time in with your models, it\'s the only way to achieve high standards.
white dwarf articles are great for high quality gaming articles, but only a starting point for display work.
stick with it mate, it\'s worth it in the end.
JesterzUSMC
Recovering Megalomaniac
Gaming pieces are the majority of what I do. (a couple hundred commissions a year...)
It\'s been so long since I did anything for display and the techniques are SO different, I keep catching myself doing it for Table-top.
Thanks for the Honesty guys!
And to my knowledge Depth and Contrast aren\'t the same.
I am under the impression that:
Depth = Smooth blended shading.
Contrast = Stark and Bright Highlights
Correct me if I\'m wrong.
Contrast is when something is strikingly different from the other.
IMO contrast isn\'t the same as depth. Depth is how deep something goes from the surface. So you have have high contrast with mid to high value colours (for example) but you still wouldn\'t get much depth, as the values are stopping at about half way.
Contrast, I like to see it as a spectrum. Think of a line with black at one end and white at the other, and all the tints, tones, and shades of a certain colour inbetween.
Then pick two points. The further away these points are from each other the more contrast you will get.
But then you can also play with contrast by juxtaposing colours, and putting dark right next to light, to give the impression of even more contrast.
IMO contrast isn\'t the same as depth. Depth is how deep something goes from the surface. So you have have high contrast with mid to high value colours (for example) but you still wouldn\'t get much depth, as the values are stopping at about half way.
Contrast, I like to see it as a spectrum. Think of a line with black at one end and white at the other, and all the tints, tones, and shades of a certain colour inbetween.
Then pick two points. The further away these points are from each other the more contrast you will get.
But then you can also play with contrast by juxtaposing colours, and putting dark right next to light, to give the impression of even more contrast.
Slightly (and I\'m by no means and expert on this)
Depth is often used to express the amount of colours used to achieve a range.
Contrast is the amount of variation between Dark(black) to Light.
Quite often the amount of contrast has to be compressed on a 28mm figure as against a figure of lifesize propotions in order to get the \"right \" visual effect. (A 28mm mini is approximatly 1/65th lifesize)
Don\'t forget that due to the Processes used in Photographing a miniature and then pushing it throught Web & varying Screen resolutions (and Types) that the Contrast is going to vary quite dramatically from the real thing. Just think how many comments have been made by people who\'ve actually seen a mini as opposed to just looking a tthe Coolminornot gallery picture.
airhead
Coffin Dodger / Keymaster
Depth and contrast are almost the same thing.
Minis all need more/exagerated depth/contrast to photo well. The lights tend to reduce the contrast. Same reason stage actors need exagerated makeup.
Fabric, skin & matt metals need smooth transitions in that depth.
Glossy (patent leather, polished wood, wet surfaces, shiney metals) need harder contrast lines. Look at a shiney patent leather shoe. Very little smooth transitions, just hot spots from reflecting the light source.
JUMC, you look like a competent tabletop painter. About where I thought I was a few years back before finding this place. The amazing thing is that Golden Demon winners will seldom score above a 9.0 and I\'ve seen them as low as 8.5\'s. The artwork here is just that good and you get to expect it.
This can be very intimidating if you are trying to post stuff to impove to that level or just to show off your latest table-top piece. Don\'t let it get to you. Post here or post in the wip section. You\'ll find lots of help there (sometimes too much, but you gotta thank them for trying).
I\'ve found 5 layers is the minimum for photo work to show well. The best works I\'ve seen do not use inks or use them very sparingly. If they do, they are using them to tint the paint.
Try this next time:
Boltgun metal with black ink (near black)
boltgun metal
chainmail
mithril
mithril with white paint (about 50/50)
Work on keeping the paint thin and applying layers in smaller and smaller areas until you are just hitting the hot spots with the last layer.
Minis all need more/exagerated depth/contrast to photo well. The lights tend to reduce the contrast. Same reason stage actors need exagerated makeup.
Fabric, skin & matt metals need smooth transitions in that depth.
Glossy (patent leather, polished wood, wet surfaces, shiney metals) need harder contrast lines. Look at a shiney patent leather shoe. Very little smooth transitions, just hot spots from reflecting the light source.
JUMC, you look like a competent tabletop painter. About where I thought I was a few years back before finding this place. The amazing thing is that Golden Demon winners will seldom score above a 9.0 and I\'ve seen them as low as 8.5\'s. The artwork here is just that good and you get to expect it.
This can be very intimidating if you are trying to post stuff to impove to that level or just to show off your latest table-top piece. Don\'t let it get to you. Post here or post in the wip section. You\'ll find lots of help there (sometimes too much, but you gotta thank them for trying).
I\'ve found 5 layers is the minimum for photo work to show well. The best works I\'ve seen do not use inks or use them very sparingly. If they do, they are using them to tint the paint.
Try this next time:
Boltgun metal with black ink (near black)
boltgun metal
chainmail
mithril
mithril with white paint (about 50/50)
Work on keeping the paint thin and applying layers in smaller and smaller areas until you are just hitting the hot spots with the last layer.
darkartminiatures
New member
yep, mithril and white works well.
IMHO You need to have a more solid mid-tone before going to the later stages. In the pic it almost looks like you have drybrushed it.
I don\'t think that white helps your rating either as it looks too flat. Creams, greys and light blues are great for adding depth on white
I hope this helps
IMHO You need to have a more solid mid-tone before going to the later stages. In the pic it almost looks like you have drybrushed it.
I don\'t think that white helps your rating either as it looks too flat. Creams, greys and light blues are great for adding depth on white
I hope this helps
JesterzUSMC
Recovering Megalomaniac
WOW!
Excellent feedback guys!!
I\'ve mixed black and black ink with metal, but never White, I\'ll have to try that!
My biggest problem I\'ve noticed lately is getting myself to STOP using Table-top Techniques and get BACK to using actual artsy techniques.
You know, shading and highlightings rather than the Table-top \"illusion\" of shadings and highlightings...LOL.
I will be doing a WIP on here in the coming weeks for one of my ME14 minis.
And after that another with ANOTHER of the ME14 minis.
I\'ll do my best to keep with display techniques on the first, and keep to Table-top on the second.
I appreciate ALL of your feedback, and I understand that cold text doesn\'t convey meanings as well as a live voice, so please don\'t get offended if you think I am replying harshly, and I assure you, I try to do the same.
Thank you for all your advice and discussion, I look forward to more of the same on my Upcoming WIP.
CHEERS!
~JesterzUSMC (not JUMC..lol)
Excellent feedback guys!!
I\'ve mixed black and black ink with metal, but never White, I\'ll have to try that!
My biggest problem I\'ve noticed lately is getting myself to STOP using Table-top Techniques and get BACK to using actual artsy techniques.
You know, shading and highlightings rather than the Table-top \"illusion\" of shadings and highlightings...LOL.
I will be doing a WIP on here in the coming weeks for one of my ME14 minis.
And after that another with ANOTHER of the ME14 minis.
I\'ll do my best to keep with display techniques on the first, and keep to Table-top on the second.
I appreciate ALL of your feedback, and I understand that cold text doesn\'t convey meanings as well as a live voice, so please don\'t get offended if you think I am replying harshly, and I assure you, I try to do the same.
Thank you for all your advice and discussion, I look forward to more of the same on my Upcoming WIP.
CHEERS!
~JesterzUSMC (not JUMC..lol)
@ freakinacage
I disagree with that. I don\'t think number of washes, or highlights or whatever automatically gives you smoothness and contrast.
I can get a lot of contrast and smoothness using just 3 colours/layers and feathering them together(boltgun+black/boltgun/mithril) and maybe a dilute wash to bring it all together.
I disagree with that. I don\'t think number of washes, or highlights or whatever automatically gives you smoothness and contrast.
I can get a lot of contrast and smoothness using just 3 colours/layers and feathering them together(boltgun+black/boltgun/mithril) and maybe a dilute wash to bring it all together.
