Now I really am in a bad/sad mood...

No Such Agency

New member
People should start doing hard jail time when their dogs run amuck and hurt/kill others. That might curb their enthusiasm to let powerful carnivores roam around in public. Dogs don\'t know right from wrong, so euthanising them isn\'t a punishment, it\'s a safety measure.

\"The Contract\" :)... Dogs have been good to us - loved us, guarded us, worked for us and even fought in some of our stupider wars. In return we\'ve given them food,shelter and love but also bred some of them into terribly dangerous creatures that no wolf could take in a fight. It is clearly not wise to allow these kinds of dogs to be house pets. A lab or collie might bite someone, but a dog bred for aggression and strong jaws can do staggering damage in almost no time.

I wouldn\'t really want to have the police showing up to people\'s doors and forcibly taking away their pets to be killed. That\'s just ugly. But I would support a ban, with \"grandfathering\" and stiff penalties for breaking it. Of course, which breeds exactly do you ban? You got me. I know \"pit bull\" is not an actual breed... ???
 

Klute

New member
\"but a dog bred for aggression and strong jaws can do staggering damage in almost no time.\"

And there lies the problem.

ANY dog can do a staggering amount of damage in no time which makes me think if you are going to ban one then you should ban them all.


Something I am curious about though.....

Have the states/counties that have implemented this ban on dangerous dogs also banned the posession of firearms.?
 

Onis Lair

New member
I\'ll keep my comments to myself so as not piss anyone off. However i have seen kind loving dogs that never acted the slightest aggressive go apeshyte before and i\'ve seen constantly nasty aggressive dogs be as sweet as you could ask. The problem happens when useless pricks own animals that were originally bred to be aggressive.
 

Shawn R. L.

New member
I have heard that chimp\'s, monkeys and such can be real fun, intelligent pet\'s. They can also, literally, rip your limb\'s off.

Pitbulls - I know of one that is an absoulut wimp/puppy at heart. It has the potential to kill, quickly and viciously. Wouldnt want to take the chance. Sometimes steriotypes arent a bad thing.

Also, not to be gorss, but this picture proves my point.

http://www.greenapple.com/~jorp/amzanim/aacpitbull.htm

If you think about what it would take as far as effort expended, and staying \'on the job\', this pit obviously had no deviation from the kill even though he was getting covered in quills. His agressiveness pushed him far beyond normal. Overrode the pain. It took ALOT of determination to stay with it as long as it took to get that many quills all over it. Most, if not all, other animals would run shriking at the first quill or two. Ol\' pit hung in there and got er done.
 

RedSevenBlue

New member
Originally posted by No Such Agency
People should start doing hard jail time when their dogs run amuck and hurt/kill others. That might curb their enthusiasm to let powerful carnivores roam around in public. Dogs don\'t know right from wrong, so euthanising them isn\'t a punishment, it\'s a safety measure.

\"The Contract\" :)... Dogs have been good to us - loved us, guarded us, worked for us and even fought in some of our stupider wars. In return we\'ve given them food,shelter and love but also bred some of them into terribly dangerous creatures that no wolf could take in a fight. It is clearly not wise to allow these kinds of dogs to be house pets. A lab or collie might bite someone, but a dog bred for aggression and strong jaws can do staggering damage in almost no time.

I wouldn\'t really want to have the police showing up to people\'s doors and forcibly taking away their pets to be killed. That\'s just ugly. But I would support a ban, with \"grandfathering\" and stiff penalties for breaking it. Of course, which breeds exactly do you ban? You got me. I know \"pit bull\" is not an actual breed... ???

Have you ever read Starship Troopers NSA? If you did, remember the Neodogs and what happened if they died at all?
 

Sand Rat

New member
I\'ve had the pleasure of having dogs as compainions most of my life. I also made sure they understood who was the alpha male in the house - and never once had a problem with them.

But I also understood that you have to accept what dogs are - confused at best by the pack bond instinct to bond with a hairless ape and a fight with their human screwed up genes.

But the problem is not with the dog, its with the person.
 

Zordana

Member
A lot of the time the media will state the dog involved in an attack was a dangerous breed or \"appeared to be a pitbull/rottie/etc\" and it turns out it was nothing of the sort. Its happened over here because I think the \'dangerous breeds\' laws is still being debated hotly and fuddy duddies love to read about the latest \'blasted no good pitbull attack\'. \"Those dogs are just evil and need to be put down\" </old granny voice>

Bottom line is, if you have children and ANY dog, you should supervise them at all times. There should be no chance for any dog to be able to get to a child and maul it.

The majority of attacks over here happen when parents arent supervising their children.

My griever could kill a child just as easily as any so-called \'dangerous breed\'.
 

Cesar

New member
Care

Aww wow. :~(

Well, I figure I\'m coming to the defense of dogs, my dogs, and all dogs, as best I can. I owe that.

I have a couple of things I\'d like to say. Complex animals in nature are cultured. Weather your speaking about Llamas, wolves or Moose. They learn life lessons of survival, tolerance, and social animals learn to communicate with one another, and learn \"acceptable social standards\". We create a divide when we take an animal away from it\'s parents (it’s source of culture and understanding), to begin with. After that point, the culturing and care is up to the pet owner to give. Otherwise, we might know of \"wild children\" (who are raised without any human interaction, or civil interaction) they become wildly. When I say wildly, I am not referring to wild animals, but am referring to a person/animal/creature who doesn’t comprehend with how to deal with situations, who isn’t grounded. This uncivilized persons can become \"dodgy\", \"shifty\" or vicious at any moment they feel threatened, or cant deal with a situation. Sometimes an animal can live in denial, and “put up” with their current reality, and constantly please everyone surrounding them, but eventually the foundations of these denials may wear thin, or something may change, now this animal who has been living in denial of a situation he cannot control, and probably resents, if faced with an intimidating situation he cannot handle and may “snap”.. Probably after trying to avoid the uncomfortable situation.

What happens is very ignorant people don’t understand what a complex system is, and don’t bother to look at the world from a “dogs eye view”. We’ll of course your not going to expect an animal attack if you did not considered the possibility, or worked to prevent it. Honestly, I have run into people, more dangerous, and less cultured then our dogs.

I happen to have 2 very intelligent dogs, and one being more restless, and less grounded then the other. But that being said, while any member of the family is around to supervise, none of them are going to bite anyone. Nor is someone going to be putting them into a situation they despise so much, they feel uncomfortable enough that they have to burst out. It’s people who don’t understand and don’t communicate and care for the very creatures they are living with (often years on end), who are the problem. Animals need to feel comfortable, secure, and feel that they have a respectable purpose in life. Otherwise, there are going to be problems. Some breed require different care/purpose/stimuli then others.

I believe there should be a standard for owning a dog, and possibly even a specific breed, a contract, and a set of regulations, too protect the breeds, breeders, dog owners, dog fanciers, and even the children, (Who’s parents observation and care for their children I often question). Kids shouldn’t be poking my dog, that is just stupid. If the government abducted me, and put me into a situation I’m not used to, couldn’t control, and people started poking me whose intentions I don’t know, or understand, or have any reason to feel secure, I might just flip out too.

I\'ve been a dog owner/co-habitant with dogs, supervised, and un-supervised all my life. The first breed of dog I grew up with looked after me, when I was young, is now considered a dangerous breed. The noble Bullmastiff. I\'ve also been a breeder, trainer, and dog handler, at dog shows. Some of
my warmest/fondest memories are while under the care and company of a Bullmastiff.... Yes, unsupervised care.

I hope you dont mind my speel, i\'ve been planning this topic as a reasearch paper for a couple weeks now. :)

As I said before, everydog has a different personality type, and should be regarded as such. Here are 2 of the dogs my family had/has, maybe you can glimpse a difference in personality.
I\'ll link, sinse im taking up alot of space already.

Drake
-- Drake unsure of being held by strangers, and a child!
1987
The Bullmastiff
 

supervike

Super Moderator
Originally posted by Evil Dave
Speaking of Dangerous Breeds, do you know the number one biting dog in America?

The Cocker Spaniel.


But that misses the point. The reason the reason some of these dogs are listed as \"dangerous breeds\" is not the frequency of the biting, its the severity of it.

Besides....checking on the CDC it claims this:

\"While national statistics show at least 30 breeds have attacked humans, 10 dog breeds are on the Center for Disease Control and Prevention\'s most dangerous list, meaning they tend to bite the most frequently. They are:

Pit bulls
Rottweilers
German Shepherds
Huskies
Alaskan Malamutes
Doberman Pinschers
Chow Chows
Great Danes
St. Bernards
Akitas\"

Also, checking further, in a study conducted between 1979-1998, 226 people were killed by Pitbulls, Rottwielers, and German Shepards. ONE was killed by a cocker spaniel during that time span.

I\'d much rather deal with an angry poodle than an angry rottweiller.
 

johnboyjjb

Active member
Dogs view people as other 2 legged dogs that talk funny. Their pack mentality means that there is a specific pecking order. A child will always be at the end of the line. I have been bit by my own black lab. Black labs aren\'t a \"dangerous dog\" but she took a good chunk of my hand and it was all becuase I was stupid. She was hurt and I was trying to help, so I reached under the bed where she was hiding and she snapped. As soon as I said Oww she begged for forgiveness.

The main cause of problems is neglect. If a dog is constantly around small children it will learn to accept them, and there incessant poking, prodding, and pinching. They shouldn\'t just pick on dogs. An active cat will rip somebody to shreds in a hurry if they are mistreated. I have seen no ban on cats.

A similar situation would be to ban all people of middle-eastern decent from our cities. They are a dangerous breed making up a majority of terrorists as purported by the news media. We can\'t trust them with our children as they may hold them hostage.

As you can see, you can apply the same rationale to a lot of things, but it doesn\'t make it right.
 

Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by supervike
Originally posted by Evil Dave
Speaking of Dangerous Breeds, do you know the number one biting dog in America?

The Cocker Spaniel.


But that misses the point. The reason the reason some of these dogs are listed as \"dangerous breeds\" is not the frequency of the biting, its the severity of it.

Besides....checking on the CDC it claims this:

\"While national statistics show at least 30 breeds have attacked humans, 10 dog breeds are on the Center for Disease Control and Prevention\'s most dangerous list, meaning they tend to bite the most frequently. They are:

Pit bulls
Rottweilers
German Shepherds
Huskies
Alaskan Malamutes
Doberman Pinschers
Chow Chows
Great Danes
St. Bernards
Akitas\"

Also, checking further, in a study conducted between 1979-1998, 226 people were killed by Pitbulls, Rottwielers, and German Shepards. ONE was killed by a cocker spaniel during that time span.

I\'d much rather deal with an angry poodle than an angry rottweiller.

I\'m going by my vet\'s words here, plus most people don\'t even report getting bit by a Cocker.
I bred Cocker Spaniels for years, a lot of them were very tempermental.
Then I bred Pomeranians, and have seen some really mean little bastards there.
All in all I know more people I\'d like to have put down than dogs.
 

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
Originally by EvilDave

All in all, I know more people I\'d like to have put down than dogs.
All to true!

My own dog is very territorial towards our home and yet as long as we are there, she will accept visitors readily.

However she was originally owned by an old woman who did not have any contact with children and my dog is not comfortable with them. Therefore as a responsible pet owner I ensure that she is under close supervision whenever she is near a child.
It\'s a pity that some parents will not adopt the same attitude with their children around dogs.
 

wiccanpony

Official Freak Bar Witch
I wonder how many tiny dog bites never get reported?..

also most home insurance polices here have a “dangerous breed clause” in them...mine does, good thing they don’t count mix breeds in it...my puppy is a terrier mix
 

finn17

New member
Too damn true!

Originally posted by Evil Dave
All in all I know more people I\'d like to have put down than dogs.
Can\'t argue with that point. I\'d even volunteer to do it (as was discussed on another thread);)

Regarding dogs...I am quite fastidious now. I have no regard for pedigree\'s Kennel Club registration etc exceptwhen it comes to Bull Terriers.
I am unlikely to own any other breed but I wouldn\'t dream of buying a BT without full papers or breeding one with another dog that didn\'t come with the same bona fides..

Supervike! there\'s a pun in there for you somewhere...:D
 

johnboyjjb

Active member
Originally posted by finn17
Originally posted by Evil Dave
All in all I know more people I\'d like to have put down than dogs.
Can\'t argue with that point. I\'d even volunteer to do it (as was discussed on another thread);)
You\'d volunteer to be put down?

I\'d much rather deal with an angry poodle than an angry rottweiller

As I understand it, a standard size poodle gets to 15\" tall and 30lbs. Not quite the size of rottweiller, but still could do some damage.

I think there are a lot more recordings of big dog attackssimply becuase of peoples perceptions. If I had my leg chewed off by a german shepard people would be like, \"Oh my gosh how terrible\". But, if I let my leg get chewed off by a chihuahua (even more) people would think I was an idiot.
 

supervike

Super Moderator
Originally posted by finn17
Supervike! there\'s a pun in there for you somewhere...:D


I resent the fact that you think I have to make bad puns whenever the opportunity arises. I will resist though, because you can teach an old dog new tricks. I mean honestly, if you keep this up, I will have a real bona to pick with you.

oh thats going to put me in the doghouse for sure....but it was the best I could do, I have had a ruff day.
 

Modderrhu

New member
Originally posted by supervike
oh thats going to put me in the doghouse for sure....but it was the best I could do, I have had a ruff day.
There\'s a bright side to this, vike: one of those wise sayings so often credited to Confucius, \"Woman who put man in doghouse, always find him in cathouse.\"
 

RedSevenBlue

New member
This topic reminded me of something: being bitten by a human is more deadly than being bit by a dog. This often happens in bar fights. And, I appologize to the person who was killed by cocker spaniel, I couldn\'t help laugh, and can\'t stop laughing, man, I am probably going to hell for it. lol why didn\'t he/she toe-punt it? It\'s just a big furry engry football! lol lol lol lol lol lol
 
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