T
Okay time to rant
- Thread starter nadinbrzezinski
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Hi, I\'m a newbie here (if you can\'t tell), and this is my first post, but I feel I must voice my opinion.
First of all keshley, I saw your Wolfen Watcher, and I saw the 6.8 score and I thought, I must completely know nothing of painting. I was hesitant giving it a 9 because I thought it might be considered trying to jack up the score, but it was my honest opinion.
The way I score is pretty simple. I look at a miniature without consideration of blending, or shadows, or highlights, or NMM. If it looks cool, it gets a high score. If it doesn\'t look cool, it gets a medium score.
And I also don\'t vote for every picture I see. I don\'t vote on anything that\'s large scale, or Sci-fi, because I have no experience with these, and can\'t see myself as a judge without having worked on them. I also don\'t judge blurry pictures, I just wait for the poster to get a better picture.
I don\'t post a lot of my work, because comparing it to the beautiful masterpieces here, I can see pretty much every aspect I lack (and there is entirely too much of it to keep myself dignified enough not to burst out crying). I got brave and did post 2 pics a few weeks ago, and got the results I pretty much thought I\'d get. Someday, when I produce something that\'s worthy of a 5 or better, I\'ll post it.
Painting miniatures is an art, and art is very difficult to judge. I haven\'t really made any comments because I don\'t feel like I have enough hands on experience to give anyone advice. I have difficuly holding my words sometimes, because I think a mini is painted too dark, or because I think there isn\'t enough highlights, or because I don\'t think the color scheme goes together well. But these will all play a role in the scores I give, sometimes more so than the blending, or detail.
Anyway... That\'s my two tin bits.
-Mengu
Hi, I\'m a newbie here (if you can\'t tell), and this is my first post, but I feel I must voice my opinion.
First of all keshley, I saw your Wolfen Watcher, and I saw the 6.8 score and I thought, I must completely know nothing of painting. I was hesitant giving it a 9 because I thought it might be considered trying to jack up the score, but it was my honest opinion.
The way I score is pretty simple. I look at a miniature without consideration of blending, or shadows, or highlights, or NMM. If it looks cool, it gets a high score. If it doesn\'t look cool, it gets a medium score.
And I also don\'t vote for every picture I see. I don\'t vote on anything that\'s large scale, or Sci-fi, because I have no experience with these, and can\'t see myself as a judge without having worked on them. I also don\'t judge blurry pictures, I just wait for the poster to get a better picture.
I don\'t post a lot of my work, because comparing it to the beautiful masterpieces here, I can see pretty much every aspect I lack (and there is entirely too much of it to keep myself dignified enough not to burst out crying). I got brave and did post 2 pics a few weeks ago, and got the results I pretty much thought I\'d get. Someday, when I produce something that\'s worthy of a 5 or better, I\'ll post it.
Painting miniatures is an art, and art is very difficult to judge. I haven\'t really made any comments because I don\'t feel like I have enough hands on experience to give anyone advice. I have difficuly holding my words sometimes, because I think a mini is painted too dark, or because I think there isn\'t enough highlights, or because I don\'t think the color scheme goes together well. But these will all play a role in the scores I give, sometimes more so than the blending, or detail.
Anyway... That\'s my two tin bits.
-Mengu
figurephenatix
New member
Oh yeah
Of course Ragin Gaijin, all of my post was in my own humble opinion. I was not trying to degrade any sculpt. All mini\'s are of course . . . cool . . . some are just cooler
IMHO
And I still believe NMM is the way to go, but, it is just a style and that does not make it best, or better, than another style of another artist.
Difference in style leads to exploration in art
BTW, whats with Chrispy and NV Studios now bagging on Jen Haley in the shout box?
\"A sellout with a bunch of followers who pass out 10\'s and only like her because of the size of her rack\" . . . hummm, opinions . . ?
I think Jen is one of the leading mini painters in the world and some of those opinion makers that frequent this sight should learn from someone who could teach IMHO
Of course Ragin Gaijin, all of my post was in my own humble opinion. I was not trying to degrade any sculpt. All mini\'s are of course . . . cool . . . some are just cooler
IMHOAnd I still believe NMM is the way to go, but, it is just a style and that does not make it best, or better, than another style of another artist.
Difference in style leads to exploration in art
BTW, whats with Chrispy and NV Studios now bagging on Jen Haley in the shout box?
\"A sellout with a bunch of followers who pass out 10\'s and only like her because of the size of her rack\" . . . hummm, opinions . . ?
I think Jen is one of the leading mini painters in the world and some of those opinion makers that frequent this sight should learn from someone who could teach
IMHOnadinbrzezinski
New member
Well it has a tad to do with whether you consistently make money doing this or not. She is technically very good, thuogh some of her pieces do leave a tad to be desired. (That said, we all have a bad brush day and her \"substandard pieces\" by her standards are far better than mine)
What they are complaining is that she is paiting by a given paint scheme by those who hire her to paint. By that standard I am a sellout of the pen since I work with fiction that is requested, sometimes with very specific reins as it were.
I scratch that, and I like both, to a tad of envy, since she is indeed one of the top painters in the industry right now.
Oh and that is my opinion mostly, but if either was given the chance to do what she is doing I can bet they would paint by numbers too... hey it pays the bills!
Nadin
What they are complaining is that she is paiting by a given paint scheme by those who hire her to paint. By that standard I am a sellout of the pen since I work with fiction that is requested, sometimes with very specific reins as it were.
I scratch that, and I like both, to a tad of envy, since she is indeed one of the top painters in the industry right now.
Oh and that is my opinion mostly, but if either was given the chance to do what she is doing I can bet they would paint by numbers too... hey it pays the bills!
Nadin
No Such Agency
New member
<i>figurephenatix:
1. NMM blows metallic away, it adds depth, shading, and life to regular metal, it is more difficult, but to those that think it is not superior to metallic paints, your only kidding yourself because you havent tried NMM on one of your own
The Gaijin:
For a non-realistic look, it does well. If rendered well. I\'m not a fan of NMM because the illusion is destroyed when the model is turned on a 360 degree axis. Metallics are harder to do because of the realistic and reflective nature of the painting medium. Plus NMM when done poorly looks really bad whereas metallic will be more forgiving.</i>
I gotta agree with Gaijin on this one. NMM can look amazing, or it can look, to be blunt, like ass. Using metallics (disclaimer: I do) can produce results which are just as aesthetically pleasing as the best NMM job. My personal style is to use blending with metallic paints to produce highlights or weathering on metals, which is sort of a combination of the two schools I guess. I don\'t pretend that my metallic-painted figures look as nice as some of the Wolfen, Confrontation etc. here which are done in the more fashionable style, but it\'s due to more than just my use of metallic paints... It\'s a stylistic choice, not an inferior technique.
Never one to avoid a debate... IMO Jen Haley is a good painter, and if she has any \"fans\" here, it\'s probably because she\'s good (I seriously doubt her \"rack\" has anything to do with it). If she can make $$ selling painted-to-order figures, more power to her. From what I\'ve seen, her paint jobs are very high-quality, so where\'s the bad? Just be nice to one another, and remember it\'s a living breathing person you\'re trashing when you say these things!
1. NMM blows metallic away, it adds depth, shading, and life to regular metal, it is more difficult, but to those that think it is not superior to metallic paints, your only kidding yourself because you havent tried NMM on one of your own
The Gaijin:
For a non-realistic look, it does well. If rendered well. I\'m not a fan of NMM because the illusion is destroyed when the model is turned on a 360 degree axis. Metallics are harder to do because of the realistic and reflective nature of the painting medium. Plus NMM when done poorly looks really bad whereas metallic will be more forgiving.</i>
I gotta agree with Gaijin on this one. NMM can look amazing, or it can look, to be blunt, like ass. Using metallics (disclaimer: I do) can produce results which are just as aesthetically pleasing as the best NMM job. My personal style is to use blending with metallic paints to produce highlights or weathering on metals, which is sort of a combination of the two schools I guess. I don\'t pretend that my metallic-painted figures look as nice as some of the Wolfen, Confrontation etc. here which are done in the more fashionable style, but it\'s due to more than just my use of metallic paints... It\'s a stylistic choice, not an inferior technique.
Never one to avoid a debate... IMO Jen Haley is a good painter, and if she has any \"fans\" here, it\'s probably because she\'s good (I seriously doubt her \"rack\" has anything to do with it). If she can make $$ selling painted-to-order figures, more power to her. From what I\'ve seen, her paint jobs are very high-quality, so where\'s the bad? Just be nice to one another, and remember it\'s a living breathing person you\'re trashing when you say these things!
T
The Raging Gaijin
Guest
Originally posted by figurephenatix
Of course Ragin Gaijin, all of my post was in my own humble opinion. I was not trying to degrade any sculpt. All mini\'s are of course . . . cool . . . some are just cooler
The Gaijin responded:
Kewl! No worries on my end.
figurephenatix wrote:
And I still believe NMM is the way to go, but, it is just a style and that does not make it best, or better, than another style of another artist.
Difference in style leads to exploration in art
The Gaijin sez:
Word! I totally agree there! It\'s nice to see NMM come around, and then see the next step of NMM Chrome. (Which in fact I like.)
figurephenatix wrote:
BTW, whats with Chrispy and NV Studios now bagging on Jen Haley in the shout box?
\"A sellout with a bunch of followers who pass out 10\'s and only like her because of the size of her rack\" . . . hummm, opinions . . ?
I think Jen is one of the leading mini painters in the world and some of those opinion makers that frequent this sight should learn from someone who could teach
The Gaijin quipped: She does teach; she\'s given me tips via e-mail when I requested. I don\'t know why people would bag on her. I personally don\'t like the fanboy mentality that surrounds her. Any remark that critiques her work is taken as sacrilege in certain circles. But that is a bias against the more ardent fans, not Jen herself. (Really sweet lady. I\'m sure people wouldn\'t say these things if they met her in person.)
One thing that comes with high visibility celebrities are that they are under the microscope of every person with an opinion, whether educated or not. Unfortunately it\'s part of the package, but IMO Haley will weather it perfectly well. Hell, she\'s laughing all the way to the bank! I\'d disregard any opinions that are on the extreme end of the spectrum, be it positive or negative.
And for the record and my own opinion, Jen is hot. Her husband is a lucky man!
The Raging Gaijin
nadinbrzezinski
New member
Yeap it does come with the territory, as I am finding out in other circles, and to those circles I will most likely not frequent them no more, no need for the negativity.
As to Jan, just like me, she is laughing all the way to the bank!
nadin
As to Jan, just like me, she is laughing all the way to the bank!
nadin
I will admit, Gaijin, that I am a fan of Jen. Not a rabid fan. I am not going to give her a 10 just because of her name. That said, there are a couple of her pieces that I found WOW.... just like at the last painting Sunday (which you weren\'t there so you missed the triple chocolate cake) Derek showed his piece from Visions in Color (?) or whatever and that was WOW.
As for NMM (which it took me awhile to figure out as a new gamer geek painter girl) -- great, but for now I am going to stick with trying to make the eyes on my figures look like normal eyes and not like the result of nuclear experimentation.
Still, now that I have learned to understand that the numbers here have nothing to do with reality, life is a lot better. My painting may be crap, but they look better on the gaming table than the lego did.
As for NMM (which it took me awhile to figure out as a new gamer geek painter girl) -- great, but for now I am going to stick with trying to make the eyes on my figures look like normal eyes and not like the result of nuclear experimentation.
Still, now that I have learned to understand that the numbers here have nothing to do with reality, life is a lot better. My painting may be crap, but they look better on the gaming table than the lego did.
nadinbrzezinski
New member
What is wrong with Lego Blocks? Just kidding... actually if that is a way to get your gaming, hey I don\'t care.
I will not impose my neurosis on people, and I like Haley\'s work as well but I avoid judging the person, but try to do the mini... now there is one paritcular line taht for the most part I cannot be honest about, for personal resons, so I avoid it. (no it is not rackham or GW)
I will not impose my neurosis on people, and I like Haley\'s work as well but I avoid judging the person, but try to do the mini... now there is one paritcular line taht for the most part I cannot be honest about, for personal resons, so I avoid it. (no it is not rackham or GW)
To Mengu, thanks for your comment.
You don\'t have to vote 9 just because everybody else does that. You have to vote what you think. Well, now my wolven is at above 8. I hope it\'s not because of my \'rant\'-report yesterday
Anyway - I did post a time ago about scoring big fig. Well... this wolven is considered big fig, so may be that\'s a factor that drove his score from 9 to 6.8 yesterday - who knows <shrug>
As opinions about Jen Haley, well... I do LOVE her work. I always use her work as reference (and Vaitalla, Dirk Stiller, SintriCat, Jim Jackson, etc.. - almost everyone in here)
I never really talk with Jen directly. I left her a pm here and never got response back from her, but hey - no problemo. She may be busy I still believe she\'s a nice person
But yet, I also feel the fanboy that surrounds her is a bit too tense. Try giving a critique on Jen\'s work - man you\'ll be in trouble So, I rarely vote on Jen\'s work, not because I\'m jealous - but what can I say but - \"Very nice\", \"Amazing\" - I\'m sure she hears that a lot, so I just give her most of the credit of the improvement of my painting skill
Now if only I can stay alive longer after saying that - I may get to Jen\'s level - So peace everybody? :innocent:
You don\'t have to vote 9 just because everybody else does that. You have to vote what you think. Well, now my wolven is at above 8. I hope it\'s not because of my \'rant\'-report yesterday
Anyway - I did post a time ago about scoring big fig. Well... this wolven is considered big fig, so may be that\'s a factor that drove his score from 9 to 6.8 yesterday - who knows <shrug>
As opinions about Jen Haley, well... I do LOVE her work. I always use her work as reference (and Vaitalla, Dirk Stiller, SintriCat, Jim Jackson, etc.. - almost everyone in here)
I never really talk with Jen directly. I left her a pm here and never got response back from her, but hey - no problemo. She may be busy
I still believe she\'s a nice person But yet, I also feel the fanboy that surrounds her is a bit too tense. Try giving a critique on Jen\'s work - man you\'ll be in trouble
So, I rarely vote on Jen\'s work, not because I\'m jealous - but what can I say but - \"Very nice\", \"Amazing\" - I\'m sure she hears that a lot, so I just give her most of the credit of the improvement of my painting skill Now if only I can stay alive longer after saying that - I may get to Jen\'s level - So peace everybody? :innocent:
T
Triumph
Guest
WAAAAA. \"I only got a 4 on this masterpiece of mine.\"
Its probably not due to the fact that it looks as someone else put it \"like ass\".
If you post 10 pics and you average say 5-6. Most likely that is what you deserve. True you may have some scores that are up and some scores that are down but if 100 people voted on each of your 10 pics and you still only averaged a 5-6. face facts that is the level of painter that you are. Any bias that exists diminshes with a greater number of voters.
Now if you post 10 pics and you average 8-9 and 100 people voted on each picture the same holds true and bias will become moot as more people vote. If you have 100 votes on a fig and still have a 9+score. YOU DESERVE IT. It means that on this INTERNATIONAL STAGE your peers feel you are one of the best.
Don\'t hide behind bias for sub-standard work. Look to see what the best painters are doing.
You do not like NMM,Great but apparently the voting public does. It requires a higher skill level and is therefore rewarded when done well. I say done well because I have seen very poor NMM.
Basing is also a part of the whole. A poor basing is like wearing a tux with sneakers. It just doesn\'t look right.
You do not like certain miniature lines because you feel they are unfairly judged higher. Thats great but the voting public likes those figures for a reason. The VW beetle may get better gas mileage and make more sense but give me a gas guzzling sports car. Why? It looks better. Just like those minature lines. They look better to the majority of the people hence higher scores.
When an exceptional figure is paired with an exceptional basing, it clicks. That is what makes us say WOW, thats what we are all trying to acheive, Thats why we obsess over our own little pieces of art. We want our peers to look at our miniatures and say WOW and when it doesn\'t happen we get threads like this one.
Its probably not due to the fact that it looks as someone else put it \"like ass\".
If you post 10 pics and you average say 5-6. Most likely that is what you deserve. True you may have some scores that are up and some scores that are down but if 100 people voted on each of your 10 pics and you still only averaged a 5-6. face facts that is the level of painter that you are. Any bias that exists diminshes with a greater number of voters.
Now if you post 10 pics and you average 8-9 and 100 people voted on each picture the same holds true and bias will become moot as more people vote. If you have 100 votes on a fig and still have a 9+score. YOU DESERVE IT. It means that on this INTERNATIONAL STAGE your peers feel you are one of the best.
Don\'t hide behind bias for sub-standard work. Look to see what the best painters are doing.
You do not like NMM,Great but apparently the voting public does. It requires a higher skill level and is therefore rewarded when done well. I say done well because I have seen very poor NMM.
Basing is also a part of the whole. A poor basing is like wearing a tux with sneakers. It just doesn\'t look right.
You do not like certain miniature lines because you feel they are unfairly judged higher. Thats great but the voting public likes those figures for a reason. The VW beetle may get better gas mileage and make more sense but give me a gas guzzling sports car. Why? It looks better. Just like those minature lines. They look better to the majority of the people hence higher scores.
When an exceptional figure is paired with an exceptional basing, it clicks. That is what makes us say WOW, thats what we are all trying to acheive, Thats why we obsess over our own little pieces of art. We want our peers to look at our miniatures and say WOW and when it doesn\'t happen we get threads like this one.
Mahon
New member
On Jen Haley - I really admire her job. She\'s one of my favourite paiters, and I think one of the best. It\'s nothing personal - just love her style. (When I showed photos of her minis to my girlfriend - without any comments - she said \"it must have been painted by a woman\")
And as for NMM - I will probably give it a try, for I like its look very much. I don\'t feel I can do it properly on my 1st attempt but it is tempting to me. I just need to find a suitable mini for it.
As for certain minis bias - I think there is something like that for two reasons: it\'s easier to judge something you know, and some minis just are more intresting.
I find Rackham minis very good andd they ofen get high votes from me - and not because I\'m biased, but just because I find them cool.
And as for NMM - I will probably give it a try, for I like its look very much. I don\'t feel I can do it properly on my 1st attempt but it is tempting to me. I just need to find a suitable mini for it.
As for certain minis bias - I think there is something like that for two reasons: it\'s easier to judge something you know, and some minis just are more intresting.
I find Rackham minis very good andd they ofen get high votes from me - and not because I\'m biased, but just because I find them cool.
Which goes to prove a discussion my husband and I have been having on gender and color.
He maintains that men (as a rule) have a basic color palate. Blue, Red, Green, Light Green, Dark Green, Yellow, etc.
Women have this HUGE color palate - cornflower blue, sky blue, azure, indigo, blue jean blue, country blue, etc.
Haley uses colors that guys (no offense) would never think of using. There is that reaper mini of an asian-style monk, female, where the clothes are a light peach color. Most men would not think of peach. Her color choices tend to be softer and feminine. It\'s probably why they appeal so much to me.
Of her minis posted here This one is the one that I looked at and thought... a perfectly painted mini. Remember, I am new to this so I don\'t know much about scoring.
Ah.. yes.. Monique deNoir.
I agree that\'s one of Jen\'s best work. I like the one that Eric Louchard did, too. But there\'s something on Jen\'s version. Simpler yet very effective technique. Not too much colors involved but it has rich color scheme.
I have 1 and now I\'m afraid to paint her
Maybe I should just go to Chicago and have a private lesson from her
I agree that\'s one of Jen\'s best work. I like the one that Eric Louchard did, too. But there\'s something on Jen\'s version. Simpler yet very effective technique. Not too much colors involved but it has rich color scheme.
I have 1 and now I\'m afraid to paint her
Maybe I should just go to Chicago and have a private lesson from her
