Organic Base Durability Experiment

[PegaZus]

I can\'t remember what thread it came up on, but someone was discussing using organic things for bases other than the normal leaf litter. And it got me to thinking, what exactly WILL organics do over time?

Being the scientific person I am, I figured I set up an experiment. Now, don\'t get you\'re hopes up. I\'m thinking this will take about six months. Unless someone has done it before? Anybody? Faded organics? Google came up empty for me, but I am a bit sleepy so maybe the Google-fu just isn\'t working right now.

Barring someone pointing out where this has already been done, this is the plan: I\'m going to take several household materials (coffee grounds, baking soda, cinnamon, oregano) and glue them to some heavy stock. Next, I\'m thinking I\'d try several different sealants (nothing, white glue, gloss clear, matte clear; any others?). Finally, to compare before and after, half of each material will be covered with painter\'s tape in order to keep it out of the sun.

So, other than the ones I\'ve mentioned above, any other organic materials that people have used and would like to see faded? This\'ll be a while, but figured I could start gathering ideas. Mind you, I don\'t plan on purchasing anything like true flock and what not. Just stuff that anyone could walk into a grocery store or craft store (not hobby specifically, mind you!) and buy. Probably stuff that is already in a cabinet.

Any suggestions on what to include?

 

[MathewBaich]

try doing some gloss coat-made water, that stuff seems like it would yellow over time. On the baking soda, I have used that on minis before and I can tell you that it eventually yellows even if you seal it.

 

[PegaZus]

Originally posted by MathewBaich
try doing some gloss coat-made water, that stuff seems like it would yellow over time. On the baking soda, I have used that on minis before and I can tell you that it eventually yellows even if you seal it.

Sorry, what is gloss coat-made water?

 

[generulpoleaxe]

baking soda doesn\'t yellow, it\'s the cheap pva that yellows due to the thickening agent added.

use a good clear wood glue and you won\'t have that problem.

 

[MathewBaich]

Originally posted by PegaZus
Sorry, what is gloss coat-made water?

that\'s where you just paint on lots of layers of gloss coat sealer to make faux water.

 

[Wren]

I\'ve used steeped and then dried out tea leaves. I\'ve heard of people using lentils for cobblestones, but I think it gets primed and painted over so nothing to test for fading.

 

[PegaZus]

Originally posted by Wren
I\'ve used steeped and then dried out tea leaves. I\'ve heard of people using lentils for cobblestones, but I think it gets primed and painted over so nothing to test for fading.

Except maybe to see if it degrades over time and exposure. Still, the tea leaves might be a good substitute for leaf litter. I\'ll have to see. Thanks!

 

[lizcam]

Crumbled fall leaves from outside if you can get them and dried flowers (the right colors can make great fall leaf litter when crumbled).

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by PegaZus
Being the scientific person I am, I figured I set up an experiment. Now, don\'t get you\'re hopes up. I\'m thinking this will take about six months. Unless someone has done it before? Anybody?

I\'ve done some impromptu testing over the years, by using stuff and finding out the hard way whether it lasts or not!

Originally posted by PegaZus
Barring someone pointing out where this has already been done, this is the plan: I\'m going to take several household materials (coffee grounds, baking soda, cinnamon, oregano) and glue them to some heavy stock.

The coffee grounds may have a problem with mould in the long term, but with an overspray of Dullcote I think they\'ll probably be fine.
Baking soda should be no problem.
Cinnamon, no idea but my guess is it\'ll last well.
Oregano has a long history of use in the hobby, should be fine.

I\'ve used tea leaves in the past once or twice but I found they were prone to growing mould, but I didn\'t seal them or paint them (I did make sure they were fully dry before use). Since then I\'ve tended to shy away from stuff that might cause problems in the long term, using hardwood sawdust/shavings with paint and acrylic medium/PVA for humus and making actual fallen leaves for over the top of that from scratch, using painted paper.

I\'ve used moss of various kinds for bushes off and on over the years and while I like the effect initially it dries out and doesn\'t look right over the years. I\'ve tried a couple of things to try to stabilise it over time but haven\'t been exhaustive about it; my guess is that something spirit-based like thinned varnish might be the best way to go.

Einion

 

[PegaZus]

Originally posted by Einion
I\'ve used tea leaves in the past once or twice but I found they were prone to growing mould, but I didn\'t seal them or paint them (I did make sure they were fully dry before use).

I wonder if that\'s because the leaves are naturally absorbent and just more prone to moisture?

Anyway, good list of things to include so far from everybody. Thanks for all the suggestions! I\'m hoping to get started on this right after Thanksgiving, but no guarantees.

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by PegaZus

Originally posted by Einion
I\'ve used tea leaves in the past once or twice but I found they were prone to growing mould, but I didn\'t seal them or paint them (I did make sure they were fully dry before use).

I wonder if that\'s because the leaves are naturally absorbent and just more prone to moisture?

I don\'t know, other people have used tea leaves (used and unused) without any problems that I\'ve read about. It wasn\'t humid where I was at the time either so maybe it was just bad luck.

Einion

 

[PegaZus]

Okay, so after nearly a year, I finally decided to start this experiment. Here\'s the board setup:

Large picture can be seen here

What you see are 7 sets of 19 cells, with one piece of foam board with the cells cut out glued to a whole piece of other foam board. Each cell has its own material: baby powder, cinnamon, coffee, corn meal, cotton, dill weed, flock (green), flock (yellow), flour, leaves, nutmeg, oregano, paprika, pepper, poppy seeds, salt (kosher), thyme, wood chips, and wax.

Six of the seven sets have been covered in painters tape, and has been placed into a window that faces directly southeast. After 3 months, the next set of cells will be uncovered. I\'ll continue uncovering cells for a year, then switch to six month durations for the next two cell sets until all the tape strips have been removed. Here\'s what the taped board currently looks like:

Large picture can be seen here

I was going to add tea leaves, as suggested, but they\'d fallen off of the table when I counted the materials and by the time I found the tea bag, I\'d already spent two hours cutting the foam board. So I wasn\'t about to start over. I\'ve got four leaf-like materials anyway, so I\'m hoping the tea won\'t react any different.

Additionally, I figured that since I was going to be spending two years of my life doing this, I figured I might as well test some paints as well. So, those are the three sets of three stripes you see. The farthest left are three Americana craft paints (very cheap), the middle are Games Workshop paints, and the right are Reaper Pro paints. I didn\'t have the exact right blue for the Americana, but I didn\'t feel like postponing it just for that. So, it is turquoise instead of a nice blue. The individual color pictures, naming each particular color can be found in the link below.

All these pictures, and pictures of each individual cell can be found in this set. Let me know if that isn\'t accessible, and I\'ll try to figure out why. This set is just the starting pictures, and I\'m thinking I\'ll just build a new set for each period\'s pictures, along with the post each time.

Once everything has finished, I figure that this will make for a nice article here, regardless of if things fade or don\'t. Let the science (?) begin!

 

[mattsterbenz]

This is a really cool idea. I\'ll be waiting to see the results!

I remember I had a Black Templar army a few years ago sitting in one of the front cabinets at the old local game store. Those cabinets were at the front windows and got tons of sunlight every morning. They had GW green flock on the bases and after a while it turned brown, and I\'ve had other pieces kept in storage and the flock is still bright green. I think we will see a dramatic difference in at least some of these materials. Can\'t wait to see how the paints turn out too! If it\'s anything like the cars here, the red will slowly turn to a pale pink color (The arizona sun destroys paint on cars!).

-Matt

 

[Einion]

Great to see this progress

The durability test seems like it\'s more going to be a test of resistance to fading more than anything but the tape, not being fully opaque to light, isn\'t providing a clean cutoff for the still-covered portions. How about a sheet of cardboard that you cut down sequentially?

Nice to see you\'ve added some paints into the equation but it would really be worth doing a paint lightfastness test alongside this since you\'re going to the trouble. I\'d suggest doing a whole range of the colours you use commonly, applying them at full strength, tinted with 10 parts white to one part paint, plus maybe a thin glaze/wash. Paint wide swatches in vertical stacks and cut the test strip(s) in half, storing the control in the dark. This can be compared with the exposed portion at the intervals you\'re already planning - if you observe any changes in addition to photos make written notes about what you see. I ran my lightfastness test for about two years also incidentally; stopped because I got sick of looking at the stuff taped in the window!

FWIW, of the paints you\'ve applied so far the blues are unlikely to change at all, the yellows are the most likely (esp. the Americana, if there are changes at all). And guessing from the colours, the left one is a tint of a green-shade phthalo blue, the middle blue is French Ultramarine, the right one is another phthalo blue.

Originally posted by PegaZus
Once everything has finished, I figure that this will make for a nice article here, regardless of if things fade or don\'t.

Yep! Change or no change the experiment\'s results will be useful.

Question: why the baby powder and the wax? What are they used in/for?

Einion

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by mattsterbenz
Can\'t wait to see how the paints turn out too! If it\'s anything like the cars here, the red will slowly turn to a pale pink color (The arizona sun destroys paint on cars!).

With automotive paints in particular that\'s likely not to be true fading but something in the paint going white - with a good buff the red colour would usually return.

Einion

 

[PegaZus]

Originally posted by Einion
Question: why the baby powder and the wax? What are they used in/for?

Well, the baby powder I was thinking of using for snow at some point since I\'ve got a ton of it left from the kids. Quick shot of clear spray, sprinkle some on from up high. Repeat as necessary. I\'ll have to play with it at some point to see what works. And I could have sworn someone upthread mentioned wax shavings. Probably my own demented mental condition then.

You\'re probably right on the tape. I was a bit disappointed in how much I could see the cells left. I\'ll probably try to get some thin card stock and cover it up better.

 

[Wren]

Very cool that you\'re doing this! I look forward to seeing how the experiment comes out.

 

[PegaZus]

Three months in so time to reveal the bottom strip...

... and was surprised to find that the paint showed ZERO fading. And everything else was not noticeably faded, so no pictures this time around.

Beside, ran out of time before vacation.

 

[Shadzar]

http://www.coolminiornot.com/149140

This uses a tea bag (Lipton Decaf - expired) for flock and I doubt it will fade because testors cement for plastic models was used to adhere it and the tea soaked the stuff up so probably sealed itself and the flavor...erm color in.

Are you wanting faded flock or non-faded?

 

[PegaZus]

Originally posted by Shadzar
Are you wanting faded flock or non-faded?

More or less, I\'m just see if they\'ll fade or not. Thanks!