Outsiders: what makes an impression

[E-Arkham]

I\'ve noticed the same thing about freehand grabbing attention.

Lately, I\'ve been on this Kaple-inspired painted-on battle damage thing (which of course is technically freehand). The funny thing is that when I mention it\'s painted on, they say, \"What!? No!\" and then they rub the miniature! lol

I think I might have to stop doing it so people stop trying to rub the paint off.

NMM doesn\'t seem to be a big deal at all to people who aren\'t painters. They notice it in the sense that they\'ll describe the miniature as \"cartoony,\" but it doesn\'t seem to impress them.

I\'ve never actually done any good SENMM, though... maybe that\'s a different story.

Kep

 

[minimaker]

Thing with sculpting is that making details is just a matter of training. Do it often enough and you\'ll be able to make those small movements. Drapery, pose and anatomy is a combination of visualisation, intuition and application of knowledge. And that\'s much more difficult to learn.

Same with painting basicly.

Bye, Ming-Hua

 

[EricJ]

Along the lines of small being impressive. One thing I noticed always gets people to say wow, is that I\'ll show them the photo first (my photos here tend to show up about 3x the size of the actuall mini on a typical monitor resolution.) They\'ll look at the photo relatively unimpressed because for the most part I think they\'re assuming that the photo is life size or smaller than the mini. THEN I show them the mini itself. That\'s what I\'ve found tends to get wow\'s, it amazes people because it sort of sets them up, preparing them for one thing, and then in reality it much more impressive. Tricky aren\'t I?

PS I see your point Ming-Hua, I think that\'s right on.

 

[Margo]

Eric, I actually agree

My outsider friends are impressed most by the Warmaster mini from my gallery -- it\'s got a coin next to it to show the scale ...

 

[douglasgreen]

Yeah I always get the eye thing,\'your brushes must be so small\' and \'you must be very patient\'....I\'m not!And always with the magnifying glass,always!! Don one-Solo mafia

 

[EricJ]

Margo...all this agreeing between us...makes me think that maybe, just maybe astrology isn\'t a 100% exact science, although I\'m not willing to believe it yet

AND just to give you a dose of your own medicine, your warmaster mini is astounding even to mini-painting insider

 

[Margo]

Originally posted by EricJ your warmaster mini is astounding even to mini-painting insider

Thanks What\'s funny, painting it wasn\'t hard at all. I think that , in fact, it was even easier than painting the usual 28mm scale minis.

As for us agreeing on the same things all the time ... well, as I said, I\'ve never had any problems with male Libras, so that might be the reason

 

[ipaintminis]

when i did that project

they were impressed at how small it was once i did the whole thing eric did. you could hear everyones mouth drop...there wasent any freehand or anything, just the sheer magnitude of it was enough to make it seem crazy

 

[RedDawn]

Being an outsider...

I\'m always impressed with minis that look life-like - especially skin tones. Of course, that\'s after having lived with minis for a while now. When Scott/Grumb first started painting I was amazed at how he could paint something that small.

I brought up a comment like this on the \"sniping\" thread. Amatuers, like me, and people who are new to CMON don\'t always appreciate the blending, the NMM, etc. I think that\'s why some minis that are really good, but \"normal\" don\'t rate higher, or drop points, when they\'re posted to the public. If that same mini had free-hand or something \"WOW\" about it, then it gets a higher rating because it\'s more noticeable.

 

[Brother Tom]

I think the thing people are most impressed with when I show them my minatures is tiny freehand writing, the main reaction being \'No, you did\'nt do that\' , I would like to know how they think it got there .

 

[Margo]

Originally posted by RedDawn
I think that\'s why some minis that are really good, but \"normal\" don\'t rate higher, or drop points, when they\'re posted to the public. If that same mini had free-hand or something \"WOW\" about it, then it gets a higher rating because it\'s more noticeable.

Yes, you\'re absolutely right. Things like freehand really do stand out. And tiny writings too. Gotta try that one sometime.

 

[Ritual]

I think it\'s pretty bothersome when you are really happy about a certain mini and you get comments like \"... ok, but why isn\'t there any freehand on it??\". I like to do freehand, but not on every single mini and some minis look better without. But, I guess some people think that the more freehand the better.

 

[EricJ]

I agree ritual, I think the latest post by Mr. Wappy showed that off perfectly. There was an outstanding elegance to that mini keeping those large areas simple and without freehand.

 

[Valander]

I\'ll chime in (and increase my post count for no good reason), too.

I\'ve noticed pretty much the same thing. The two things that get the most attention from my non-painter friends are:

1. Eyes and facial work. Even though this hasn\'t been as much of an issue for me, they\'re still always all gawking about the eyes. Of course, at the same time, if you screw up on the eyes, they immediately notice.

2. Freehand type stuff. The red plaid I did on my Gauntfield blew my friends away, even though it wasn\'t shaded well, blended, etc. I spent a lot more time on the dirty blue jeans, but didn\'t hear a word about those. And the tiger stripes I just did on my Basti warrior from Crocodile got that reaction, too.

I think, though, that the more they see, the more they will start to appreciate difficult things like smooth blending and light-source effects. The trick is just to explain what you had to do just a little; then they usually say something to the effect of, \"I\'d never have the patience for that!\"

 

[frenchkid]

Another good way to get a WOW reaction (and stop them telling you it\'s usless) is to give them the price well painted mini fetch. Seems to get a lot more reaction that way then just telling friends that it takes hours to blend somthing nicely

 

[Modderrhu]

Originally posted by minimaker
Drapery, pose and anatomy is a combination of visualisation, intuition and application of knowledge. And that\'s much more difficult to learn.

And that\'s why so many people do conversions, but don\'t dare to sculpt from scratch? I know that\'s my reason - I have no idea of where to start, but finishing certainly seems like a breeze in comparison. Mind you, I did buy Hogath\'s Dynamic Anatomy today...

Something else I noticed: when the most basic techniques of drybrushing and washing are explained to Outsiders, they lose that WOW factor quite quickly, because they realise how easy it can be to pick up details.

 

[EricJ]

I got a wow the other day when I was showing off some minis here and had the forum open and Alexi\'s newest photo came up...

 

[minimaker]

Origineel geplaatst door ModderrhuAnd that\'s why so many people do conversions, but don\'t dare to sculpt from scratch?

Depends on the person I\'d say. I can\'t say I can think of anybody else who ever mentioned this. Still, I can imagine this to be true for those with a background in making conversions. They have already ran into gaps in their knowledge.
More common are those who do not realise it\'s not just technique. They ask question like \"how do I make faces\" and \"how do I make drapery\" and expect an answer in the style of \"how to do drybrushing\". What they don\'t see yet is that the problem with these two is visualisation, not technique (apart from making eyes). It\'s just pushing putty around. Unlike making chain- or scalemail or weapons. There we are talking technique.
This is also why those who have an arts background learn to sculpt much faster. They only have to learn the techniques and know how to fill any gaps in their knowledge.

I\'m guessing that the best thing in your case if you want to sculpt is simply to dive in at the deep end. You already have experience at conversions and have seen many miniatures. You probably have more knowledge and skill than you realise. Making your first miniature is a big hurdle to take. Finishing it is an even bigger hurdle. Saying \"this is done\" is also hard to learn. But when you\'ve taken all these steps you\'re definitely ready to go on. Your first sculpt may dissapoint you, but that\'s normal. It can also surprise you.

By the way, Burne\'s book is ok but if you have no prior knowledge I\'d recommend this one: http://www.fineart.sk/index.php?cat=12 Loads of reference pics on that site too (including nudes).

Good luck.

Bye, Ming-Hua

 

[Wren]

Originally posted by Valander
I think, though, that the more they see, the more they will start to appreciate difficult things like smooth blending and light-source effects. The trick is just to explain what you had to do just a little;

I don\'t think we can really expect the uninitiated to get it without an explanation. Skilled mini painting uses a lot of 2D painting techniques, but since it\'s on a 3D medium, I don\'t think that\'s obvious. I think most people just assume that it\'d be like painting a really small statue - you just paint by numbers and the 3Dness of the sculpt results in shadows and highlights as appropriate. I mean, most guides for novice painters have to explain the process, so it\'s not something that\'s obvious. And the better you paint, the more natural and less obvious the process is. Well-done light sourcing and NMM are similar situations. We use acrylic paints, but in a way that\'s more like watercolours, which again isn\'t obvious. Darklining is the kind of technique that you almost notice more if it\'s not there than if it is.

Freehand sticks out to even those most ignorant of art techniques because it\'s an obvious one - it\'s a drawing and it\'s really small, man you must have done something pretty complex there! I find bases also get a fair amount of comment from non-painter types, again probably because they often feature stuff that\'s more obvious to the untrained eye. (And people are just fascinated by small things, from IPods to the tiny scenes in Faberge eggs. ;->)

 

[Medved]

i think sometimes its the golden demon vs \'eavy metal thing. what is shown to us in golden demons is truly amazing stuff, sometimes very complicated, and often excessive freehand can cover up problems in blending. Often the eavy metal version is deceptively simple. do we all get those smooth blends and such neatness day in day out? then when you see those guys throw in a bit of freehand.....thats when the magic happens.