Painting Dilute

[Aliengod3]

I am running into some problems painting with diluted paint. My biggest problem is that when I paint with diluted paint the area I am painting looks more rough and chalky, not smooth. Everyone keeps saying that diluted paint makes the area one is painting softer and smooth but it never works for me.

I paint with the tip of the brush and wipe off as much moisture as I can and when I apply the paint it looks I am drawing on the mini with a pencil as the paint makes very thin lines. I bought the miniature mentor DVD of the wolfen and my results never look like those in the video.

Any suggestions?

 

[Gilvan Blight]

It sounds like you are using too small of a brush. You really shouldn\'t need anything smaller then a 0 except for extremely small details like eyes. I use a 1 for most of my coats swapping to a 0 when highlighting, and then only pull out smaller for small details.

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by Aliengod3
I paint with the tip of the brush and wipe off as much moisture as I can and when I apply the paint it looks I am drawing on the mini with a pencil as the paint makes very thin lines.

This sounds a bit like you\'re using a mix that\'s not dilute enough - if you\'re having problems with subtlety the paint in the brush, for layering, should generally be so thin that you can barely see a single coat of it on the colour beneath.

Edit: that ^ too. Almost always a good idea to use the largest brush that can conceivably do the job. For larger minis it\'s perfectly possible to paint 95% of it with a 2.

Einion

 

[arogers907]

I would guess that you may still not be diluting enough. Taking excess paint/water off the brush is important to stop your paint from pooling and to control movement of it on the mini. Also to build up areas of color in a really controlled way. If you are getting a sharp line with a single pass of the brush, I really think you\'ve just got too much pigment in there.

That said, the brush size pointer is awesome advice. A good brush with a sharp tip is going to be much more friendly that an itty bitty brush. I find myself relearning that lesson every once in a while.

 

[evil tendencies]

What kind of paint are you using? I use Vallejo Game Color paints, which have a very finely ground pigment. It could be that the paint you are using simply isn\'t meant for 28mm details.

I also use a special mix of thinner when I put paint on the palette. I fill an empty dropper bottle with 1/3 matte medium, 1/3 flow aid, and 1/3 drying retardant. This blend makes even metallics go on much more smoothly.

Also, what do you dip your brush in to clean it? Water works, but an acrylic brush cleaner works much better when it comes to getting out chunks.

 

[Avelorn]

I wouldn\'t use the tip of the brush for anything else then details. When doing layering I use more the side of the brush.

My procedure for painting:
1. Put water in the brush.
2. Remove excess paint with my mouth (or cloth for the newbies)
3. Put little paint on the brush and work it in.
4. Remove some of the extra paint on thumb or mouth
5. Put it on the mini
6. In case there is a drop of paint when you lift the brush, quickly rince the brush and suck it up, dissolve any lines forming using the same method.

Remember to be reasonable quick and not work to much with the paint on the miniature as working with halfdried paint means disaster.

EDIT: point number two it should say \"water\" not \"paint\"

 

[donga666]

Originally posted by Avelorn
I wouldn\'t use the tip of the brush for anything else then details. When doing layering I use more the side of the brush.

My procedure for painting:
1. Put water in the brush.
2. Remove excess paint with my mouth (or cloth for the newbies)
3. Put little paint on the brush and work it in.
4. Remove some of the extra paint on thumb or mouth
5. Put it on the mini
6. In case there is a drop of paint when you lift the brush, quickly rince the brush and suck it up, dissolve any lines forming using the same method.

Remember to be reasonable quick and not work to much with the paint on the miniature as working with halfdried paint means disaster.

Avelorn speaks the truth, I do that...

I know there is no need to quote an entire post, but ho hum!

 

[Aliengod3]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for all of your feedback. After reading what you all have to say I guess that my paint still is not dilute enough and also I think I am putting too much paint on the mini. Normally I put almost the enter head of the paintbrush in my mix... I guess it is time to stop.

I clean my brushes with water and I normally use either a 2/0 or a 0 to paint most of my minis. I also paint iwth a bunch of different types of paints. I use vallejo, citadel, and p3.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by Aliengod3Normally I put almost the enter head of the paintbrush in my mix... I guess it is time to stop.
Definitely. You should only use about 1/3 of the brush head at a maximum

I clean my brushes with water and I normally use either a 2/0 or a 0 to paint most of my minis.
I had a suspicion that might have been part of your problem. For large areas you are far better off using a good quality 1 or 2 brush which allows greater coverage with fewer strokes.
Winsor & Newton series 7 brushes are highly regarded but also sadly highly priced. However there is a range of Watercolour brushes by W&N just as good and half the cost. Blue Handles and slightly ergonomically shaped. Worth looking up and out for.
Invest in a brush cleaning soap and clean your brushes regularly.I clean mine after finishing a model, especially if I\'ve used a lot of red paint.

 

[PTS]

I don\'t want to hijack this thread, but as we\'re discussing diluting, anybody have tips on the water/paint ratio for metallics (GW silvers, golds, etc) to produce an even, smooth, shiny finish?

 

[Aliengod3]

@PTS: 3:1 wateraint is what I use.


I have a couple series 7 but they are size 0, 2/0, and 3/0. For all of the years I have been painting I have always used super small brushes for every mini I have painted. I painted my Vostroyan command with a 10/0 brush. Yes, even the standard bearer. I have only recently started using 0\'s and 1\'s more frequently for most of the sufaces except faces.

I use the Raphael 8404 brushes thanks to the Mentor DVD. I have sizes 1, 0, 2/0, 3/0, and 4/0. I found a place that sells them for a great discount.

What is the reason for putting such a small amount of paint on the bristles? The paint is already super dilute. I feel like just touching the tip to the diluted paint will yield me no result at all.

 

[airhead]

If you paint is properly thinned, and you touch the brush to the paint pallet, the brush should pick up more than enough paint. Thus the reason that most painters then touch the brush to a piece of dry paper towel - to let it release some of the diluted paint so that you are painting / glazing the mini instead of having the paint come out of the brush in a blob or applying a wash to the mini.

Boy that seemed like a long sentence - hope it made sense?

 

[arogers907]

Perfect sense... and exactly what I would have said. =)

Additionally, in your original post, you\'re claiming that you wipe off as much moisture as you can. As you should. If you dip more than just the tip of your brush into your dilution (it\'ll wick up plenty of paint), you are just wasting paint. It\'s just that much more you\'ll have to eat or let absorb into your paper towel. Ya know?

-Andy

 

[Ratboy The Legend]

I had similar problems not so long ago.

One of the main contributors was my crappy water from the bathroom tap, i am now using water from my kitchen, it\'s much better. If it isn\'t that then it is probably a technique thing or maybe you have too small of a brush? I have a size 3 brush that i am using, it\'s fine for most minis i feel as the tip is decent and it\'s good for larger areas.

 

[Thunderhawker]

Quality of brush and quality of water are both factors that didn\'t even come to my mind until I tried other things. I went from synthetic brushes to Kolinsky Sable, and from tap water to either filtered or purified. The filtered and purified water have fewer metals and other contaminants that can have and affect on your paints. Though this is generally minor, it can accumulate over time.

As DR says there are lower cost alternitives available, and some are great. You can try Artmedia, whose store brand brushes are made by DaVinci, or Dick Blick who also offers a lower cost true sable brush. Utrecht also has their own line of sables, but they are kind of hit or miss and should be tested in store if possible, or received in the original tubes if not.

Personally, I have some series 7s, Raphael 8404s, and Davinci series 35s. They each have their strengths, and I try and use them in their best capacity. Truth be told the Raphaels have been getting the lion\'s share of the work, but the DaVincis are new and I haven\'t had a whole lot of practice with them yet.

 

[Arma]

Originally posted by Aliengod3

I use the Raphael 8404 brushes thanks to the Mentor DVD. I have sizes 1, 0, 2/0, 3/0, and 4/0. I found a place that sells them for a great discount.

Out of interest, where did you get cheap 8404? I use them too and they\'re expensive as hell in Japan.

 

[Aliengod3]

Chekc out Dick Blick website. Thunderhawker mentioned it and it is where I get mine. They over 50% so you pay about $8 for a brush that normally costs about $20 which is nice. Pretty good deal but I am still trying to find better ones.

 

[TokenArtGuy]

I purchase my W&N series 7 from Mister Art ( www.misterart.com ), their prices are very good (in the USA anyhow).

Direct Link:
http://www.misterart.com/store/view/001/group_id/1304/WINSOR--NEWTON-Series-7-Kolinsky-Sable-Water-Colour-Brushes.htm

The series 7 brushes will last for a very long time, even if abused, well worth the money in my opinion.

Please keep in mind that certain paint pigments are poisonous and shouldn\'t be eaten. I especially wouldn\'t lick anything that lists cadmium on it someplace.

TAB studio has some good free videos that show what properly diluted paint should look like.

http://tabstudio.wordpress.com/

-Good luck

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by Arma

Originally posted by Aliengod3

I use the Raphael 8404 brushes thanks to the Mentor DVD. I have sizes 1, 0, 2/0, 3/0, and 4/0. I found a place that sells them for a great discount.

Out of interest, where did you get cheap 8404? I use them too and they\'re expensive as hell in Japan.

Find a friend in the hobby and get them to select them for you and post over. Might be cheaper in the long run.