Painting larger scales and busts....expanding skills

Pictish Mini Painting

I'm actually a man!
Hi folks,

I am looking to expand my skills into larger stuff like 70mm and busts.

I am assuming its mostly what i am doing with 28mm stuff but larger blending areas and light is more important.

I just wondered if there were any good resources discussing the differences and basics of working on a larger scale.

cheers folks
 

Antar000

New member
Honestly, haven't found many. That said, since I just started doing similar, some of my findings might help.
For one, texture and color variation become far more important, probably being the greatest source of variety seen on the mini. Highlighting and shading become somewhat less important, or at least subtler: white highlights are less necessary, going down to pure black pretty much never happens. The closer in scale you are to 1:1, the closer the real color variation should be to 1:1 (that is, if you were painting a life-sized model of a person, all highlights and shadows should be from surface texture and real light).
Smooth blends are much more important. For skin, at the very least, I recommend picking up some oil paints and playing around with them. You can get amazing results with oils, and even poor use of oil colors lends itself to smooth blends. Since smooth colors are more important, airbrush use becomes far more tempting, but it's still by no means a necessity.
Clean your minis better, too. Uneven surfaces, mold lines, etc., become far more noticeable in the large scale. In a larger scale, however, sculpting becomes a bit easier. If you want to do some really ambitious conversion work, the larger the scale the easier it is to make details look real. A 30mm face is way harder to modify than a 75mm one.
Good luck!
 

Pictish Mini Painting

I'm actually a man!
Thanks for that, i will be looking to stay with Acrylics to start with, scale 75 seem to lend themselves well to the larger scales.

Oils would be a step farther on but maybe in the future.

Its more if the skills are transferable or is it a whole new ball game
 

Webmonkey

New member
Agreed,... "smooth and subtle" count for far more then the "forced contrast" that you are used to working with does. The airbrush is your friend for larger kits. And I highly recommend pastel powders for shading. Also, DO NOT SKIP ON THE PREPWORK. Be sure to take care of any seams, mould lines, pitts or other irregularties. Dry fit everything, look for gaps. If you don't solve these problems up front, they WILL show up in the final product. Also, I recommend painting pieces seperately and assembling later where possible.

Just a few tips from a guy who's done a LOT of these.
 

MAXXxxx

Well-known member
I just wondered if there were any good resources discussing the differences and basics of working on a larger scale.

Bailey03 :)


also ask here, I'm far from being pro, but painted quite a few bigger figures / busts lately (see gallery and/or wip thread)
 

Bailey03

Well-known member
Lol, thanks MAXXxxx. :smile:

I started out on the 28's (GW, ral partha, etc) and then 6 or so years ago started working on larger figures. These days I typically do 54mm and 75mm, with the occasional 28mm, 90mm, or bust. I think experimenting with different scales is a great way to push your skills and learn. You may find you prefer one scale over the others, but it's still worthwhile shaking things up every once in a while. By your questions it sounds like you're on the right track. I don't drastically change my approach when I work on a larger scale. Mostly it's about putting in more detail because you have more room to work. Faces are a good example. With the larger figures (be it 70mm or bust), you've got a lot more room so you can work on this more subtle lines and features. Or with eyes, for a 28mm I'm happy with I can do the whites of the eye and then a black dot for the iris/pupil. For 75mm I'm putting the pinks in the corners of the eye, using a color for the iris (blues and greens show up better then browns), a black dot for the pupil and a white dot for the catchlight. On my latest bust I'm doing all that 75mm stuff, throwing in shading on the whites of the eyes and on the iris color, I also tried to work in some blood vessels in the corners for the first time. You don't necessarily have to do all that (it took my many larger figures to get to where I am now), but the point is when you do a larger figure think about what details you would do on a smaller one and then think about what else you could add now that you have more room.

Yes, blending will definitely be important and these larger figures are a good place to practice. Mistakes in light placement can be more noticeable too. If you want, there are a number of tricks you can use to help with the shadow and highlight placement. On some earlier projects I would prime the figure (solid color), then place it under a light and take photos from the front, back, and sides. It's best to have the light above but slightly between you and the figure (whether it's facing forwards, backwards, or to the side). Those photos were a great reference, especially when doing the shadows and highlights on all of the folds in the clothing. Another option is to do the black/white priming (all black, the spray white from above). It's the same idea, just showing you what surfaces the light will hit. I don't bother with that anymore on the figures, but it was a nice way to start.

On the bigger pieces you can use oils very effectively, as Antar mentioned. But you can still do acrylics (I still use them on 75mm, 90mm and busts).

As for the relationship between scale and contrast, I'd say it's more about your style and preference than hard and fast rules. Technically, sure, at 1:1 you're using minimal contrast (though you can still do some, just look at the make up industry). In reality, I think you can do high contrast on a 75mm or a bust and it can look great. If you look at examples of busts and 75mm stuff on here or P&P and look at the highest rated ones, you will find they tend to be pushing the contrast even though they're larger pieces. Here's an example I posted on my blog a few months back showing a few different scales. You can see how the level of detail increases and how more subtle features and lines are brought on on the larger scales. But you should also notice that there's not a gradual decrease in contrast. If anything, the 150mm might have the highest contrast. I was experimenting with it and you may not like the style, but I do and don't think there's anything wrong with high contrast on a larger figure.
face_scales.jpg


Here's another look after he'd had a bit more work done on him. Every shadow and highlight isn't black to white, but for the big shadows I get very dark and for the top highlights I'm still going close to white.
H09.jpg


And here's an example from that 70mm figure for a closer look at the shading and highlighting. There's still quite a bit of contrast there.
OG19.jpg


Last bit of advice is remember that it's a learning process, so give it time and don't expect your first larger figure to be perfect.
 

ten ball

Active member
For larger scales the kit you already have will serve you fine Rick. Don't go spending, just add to your paints / equipment one piece at a time. I find and airbrush very useful but I painted sherlock and Watson before I got it so its not essential. As for oils im always sucking and mixing with my mouth so oil is a no no for me :)
 

Pictish Mini Painting

I'm actually a man!
@ Bailey03: Wow, that was involved :) Thank a lot, that's a great set of advice and thankfully roughly to some thoughts i had in my head, so good to see its on the right track. I may poke you for some critique when i finish model 1 ;)

@Ten Ball: What kit i already have? Do you mean one i am getting from a mate or have i been abducted by aliens and am now missing sections of my memory ;)

I have a 54mm spiderman (The Arachnid) figure from Andrea Miniatures that a mate had on a shelf unpainted , it needs breaking down, cleaning up and re building as its not been put together well (his own words) so its good to have something to start with that recognisable.

I am off work next week and plan to be relaxing with a brush
 

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
Its more if the skills are transferable or is it a whole new ball game

Definitely Transferable as I'm working on a number of Larger Figures for Euro-Militaire.
I'd suggest staying away from Oils for your first attempt as they;
1 take ages to dry if you don't have a drying cabinet
2 take some getting used to thje differences in handling.

Now I've used Dry pastels as has been suggested and there is some merit in them.....but a caveat you have to fix them (Dullcoate) straight away. From my experiences they are a tool to use but if you are already used to using Glazes then there is no need to jump that hurdle.

Now if you are aiming to do a figure for Euro's comp (for example) then take a look in the Cmon Expo:-
http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/showthread.php?51141-My-Euo-Militaire-Pictures
for the standards that are there.
But Remember if you are going Historical, be 100% accurate it is a major requirement!
 

MrJim

New member
Excellent thread. There is some great advice here. I too, just bought my first 54mm figures and 200mm busts.
(painting warhammer stuff got old a lot faster than I expected)
 

Pictish Mini Painting

I'm actually a man!
@Dragonsreach: Thanks chief, good tips.

With regards to Euro etc, i think i would stick to fantasy to start with, get good clean high end stuff, then start looking into producing historical stuff where i am simply just using the correct colours, instead of learning colours while trying to learn technique.

If i do go down route of historical stuff, my VMC range will jump from about 5 bottles to more than i care to financially think about just now hehe.

Though scale 75 may be my thing for fantasy
 

Bailey03

Well-known member
I think 10 ball meant kit as in painting kit (paints, brushes, etc), not model kit.

Though, speaking of model kits, the nice thing is, while many of us associate those larger scales with historical figures, there are a lot of fantasy and sci-fi stuff being released in those scales too. You're aware of Scale75. Nocturna is another one that has some nice 54mm, 70mm, and busts in fantasy. Andrea Miniatures and Pegaso also have some fantasy and sci-fi stuff in 54mm and 75mm. They're mostly historical, but there's also Andrea's Warlord Sage and Dark Nova lines and Pegaso's Fantasy Worlds. Michael Kontraros Collectibles is a small range, but has 54mm to 90mm full figures plus one bust. Ares Mythologic's Draconia line has some nice fantasy figures too. Oh, and check out Nuts Planet for large scale figures and busts.

And then there are the kickstarter and indiegogo projects coming out with larger scale stuff. Black Sailors has some amazing pirate orc figures that are roughly 75mm. They're supposed to start shipping this month or next, so I'd expect the figures to be commercially available to everyone in the next few months. Creature Caster is another one that should be shipping soon. They've got a bunch of greater demon style figures that are around 150mm plus dragons. Technically meant for the 28mm games, but the size means you'll approach is as you would any other large scale figure.

This is not a complete list by any means, but will certainly give you plenty of stuff to start with.
 

Pictish Mini Painting

I'm actually a man!
That's a good list of suppliers, nocturnal being a company I really want to do some stuff from.

I also have black Betty coming from painting Buddha kickstarter in indie goo and a bobbin bust of Randall Streisand from Painting Buddha too. Gotta help more folk become bruddah's :)

I see what you mean now Lee, yeah I won't need any more pain materials to do this got heaps lol
 
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