Plagarism

[Devilry]

Banksy once said \'Good artists copy - Great artists steal\'.

I think everyone suffers the urge upon seeing a particularly inspiring project or conversion to incorporate ideas into their own work.

Looking around at conversion inspiration for ogres has seen me going \'oooh\' and \'aaaah\' at several particularly clever ideas by other people.

However, I deliberately don\'t use ideas copied straight from other people, which can be annoying sometimes when other people get it spot on, simply because I\'d be embarrased frankly if I posted pictures of something I was working on safe in the knowledge that I was simply recreating something already done (and more often than not done better).

Just wondered what other people thought about general plagarism in the hobby. Is it flattering to be copied? annoying? do you go round to their house and slowly kill them by flaying an inch of skin at a time from their twitching form (dammit, must not externalise, must listen to therapist!).

Of course you could conceivably come to the comclusion I\'m simply bored at work!

 

[Amazon warrior]

I think most people are flattered, especially if you ask first. It\'s pretty unlikely that you\'ll produce an exact replica anyway - two people can paint exactly the same mini with (nominally) exactly the same colours and they\'ll very likely come up with two quite different results.


(Can you tell I\'m bored too? )

 

[Devilry]

I think I was considering conversions rather than paint schemes.

In fact, what I was doing was looking at JRN\'s converted Trolls and thinking \'hhmmmm, that\'s just about perfect\'. But the way I see it, he had the idea, did the hard bit in conceptualizing and getting it to work, last thing that deserves is some little oik like me coming along and pulling off copies (well, undead copies, but it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck etc).

That just got me thinking about the issue in a wider sense.

 

[skeeve]

Ideas could be used of cause but execution will be yours of cause. I have to admit though, some things gets really repetitive after looking at them over the years... My latest \"favorite\" one is a tyranid (dark eldar, some chaos creature, an assassin) looking at his prey from the second floor of a building (tall tree, rock or some other suitably dirty concrete structure).

Then again even if the composition somewhat repetitive, execution, painting small details will remain individual. After all Crucifixion was painted thousands times (probably more) yet even now there are very original renditions of the same subject.

 

[Amazon warrior]

Originally posted by Devilry
I think I was considering conversions rather than paint schemes.

In fact, what I was doing was looking at JRN\'s converted Trolls and thinking \'hhmmmm, that\'s just about perfect\'. But the way I see it, he had the idea, did the hard bit in conceptualizing and getting it to work, last thing that deserves is some little oik like me coming along and pulling off copies (well, undead copies, but it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck etc).

That just got me thinking about the issue in a wider sense.

Well, I think it applies to conversions too - your interpretation will be different because it\'s you doing it and not someone else. And it\'s not like you\'re swiping somebody\'s freshly finished conversion either - you still have to put in the work to make your own version. I think plagiarism is an odd choice of words, tbh, but then I work in the scientific publishing industry and have a very literal definition of what it means!

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by Devilry
However, I deliberately don\'t use ideas copied straight from other people...

This wouldn\'t necessarily be plagiarism; taking inspiration from the work of others is just that - taking inspiration. Plagiarism is outright copying being passed off as your own work; where the line is drawn between them is a very grey area though.

Originally posted by Devilry
Just wondered what other people thought about general plagarism in the hobby.

The appropriation (or theft, depending on individual perspective) of ideas and concepts has been discussed a few times, usually in relation to GW.

It\'s pretty rife today, but then it is genuinely hard to come up with something that\'s never been done before in some way. One tends to draw from films you\'ve watched, books you\'ve read, sculpts you\'ve seen etc. so copying can easily be unconscious.

Originally posted by Devilry
Banksy once said \'Good artists copy - Great artists steal\'.

That\'s not original BTW, he\'s quoting. The phrase is reputed to be Picasso\'s.

Einion

 

[Devilry]

hhmm, it would seem this topic took a slightly more ominous tone than I was anticipating, probably because \'Plagiarism\' was the wrong word to use. Just goes to show what happens if you start topics whilst caffeine deprived!

First off, the Banksy quote. I\'m delighted to be corrected on that one. I\'m an absolute moron when it comes to classical art, I literally know less than a garden gnome, so that\'s been logged away and stored for later use!

I think the question I should have phrased is a little more light hearted and should have read thus;

\'You convert a figure and throw it ip on CMON or a similar resource. A day, week, month, year later someone else throws up a conversion that\'s to all intents and purposes identical. That person may point to you as inspiration, or may not. - How do you feel?\'

I\'m aiming it at the large scale \'unique\' conversion crowd rather than the usual simple hand and arm swaps we all do.

 

[Dblood]

Originally posted by Devilry
I think I was considering conversions rather than paint schemes.

In fact, what I was doing was looking at JRN\'s converted Trolls and thinking \'hhmmmm, that\'s just about perfect\'. But the way I see it, he had the idea, did the hard bit in conceptualizing and getting it to work, last thing that deserves is some little oik like me coming along and pulling off copies (well, undead copies, but it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck etc).

That just got me thinking about the issue in a wider sense.

As long as you don\'t go to Ebay and try and pawn thm off as JRN\'s work, then you should not worry.

Being original is something to aspire to, just don\'t obsess over it too much and let it stifle your hobby. It\'s best to finish projects and start on new ones, taking what you learned from the previous effort. If you are not too original on the first project, maybe you will get some inspiration from your own work as it progresses and then be able to bring it out on the next one.

 

[evil tendencies]

Imitation and wholesale copying of art is a necessary activity for disseminating new ideas and techniques. I\'m not good enough to have people copy my miniatures work, but I\'ve had more than one friend attempt my style of writing. I tend to be fond of absurd situations and long (but not run-on) sentences. A professor once asked me in a workshop if I minded this, and I really didn\'t (and don\'t).

I think the point that you\'re not actually claiming someone else\'s work to be your own work is the crux of it. There are certainly some artists who say \"well, that\'s mine and mine alone,\" but there are many, many more who realize that they are getting applause for their work every time someone copies it.

 

[mud duck]

I like the idea of someone copying a idea/conversion. And if they tip the hat in my direction, WOOT!
If someone where to copy a conversion that I did and they improved on it. Bonus!

 

[fieldarchy]

Plagiarism refers to stealing the exact idea or wording without giving any credit to the original creator. I think as long as it\'s mentioned in the description of the work who your inspiration is/was you are fine. Personally all art is copying something whether it\'s art imitating life or translating from one medium to another such as book to movie we all do it. We may not be entirely conscious of it but we all do it.

 

[Godlikebuthumble]

Well I definitely copied the paint scheme from this Vlad: http://www.coolminiornot.com/195896
for my own, and tried to practice Razza\'s Gold NMM. I needed inspiration for a Black/Red Vlad (my army scheme) two days before a tournament, the army book one looks boring, and I didn\'t feel like pondering it too much since I had a tight painting schedule... So, giving credit where it\'s due (I\'m sure mine, when posted, still won\'t come anywhere near the original), but I think imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, after all.

 

[AegisD]

How I would feel would depend on how the other person presented their own work. If the words \"inspired by\" or \"adapted from\" were used to describe it, I don\'t see the harm. In fact I have a painting of Mortarion that I did, which was inspired by a mini I saw here. It\'s hanging on the wall in my room, but I wasn\'t trying to steal from the original artist either. I just really liked it, and wanted to preserve it for myself.
It\'s not the first time I\'ve done something like that either, but I\'d never post it somewhere and claim it to be original, because it\'s not. It\'s just my take on someone else\'s work.

On the other hand, if someone took another person\'s piece, and shamelessly copied it then attempted to pass it off as their own, I\'d call that plagiarism. Bonus points if they deny it when confronted with evidence.

 

[Infidel Castro]

The wise man says plagarism is spelt PLAGIARISM

We\'re all influenced by others, whether we want to admit it or not. Fact!

 

[supervike]

I think we are all influenced by others, whether or not we admit it. That\'s a fact.