Playing with Unpainted Minis...a sin?

[Modderrhu]

Originally posted by Evil Dave
I do, however, find it a bit egocentric to make statements that you\'d never play against an unpainted army, and that painting is part of the hobby.
That\'s like saying those display pieces you have are crappy because you don\'t game with them, as many of these pieces were designed with a game in mind, you\'re not fufilling part of the hobby.

Huh. I\'ve been accused of \"wasting\" miniatures since I have never played with, but am slowly painting up 10,000+ points of Dark Elves. Is that wrong? Are there two separate hobbies here, painting and gaming? Or are they just different aspects of the same hobby? I couldn\'t care either way, to me, my minis have a static little life all of their own - they don\'t need to see battle for them to be valuable to me.

Most tourneys that I\'ve heard or read about, have always awarded extra points for fully-painted armies, and extra for well-painted armies. That satisfies both aspects of the hobby, I think. Nobody scores by anyone putting ungarnished lead on the table, except those who get rewarded for taking the time to paint their toy soldiers.

 

[Mosch]

Orginal gepostet von Dragonsreach

Originally posted by Cesar

As well, there can be no doubt that a well painted army can tip the tables of a tight nite game.
Huh? How can colour affect the play of a set of figures? That\'s down to the tactics of the player, is it not.
Having taken part in a few tournaments with my Sisters of Battle army I\'ve actually won the Best Painted Army at one. Didn\'t win a single battle but still enjoyed the games. lol

It does work. I have my designated \"bullet magnet\" for my Dark Edlar army. That model is painted to the best of my abilities using obvious signal colours and generally made up to draw attention to itself. My opponents usually went for it and ignored my \"lesser\" troops that proceeded to rip my enemy a new one

While I have three fully painted armies (W40k Dark Eldar, Confrontation Drunes, Confrontation Dirz) I have nobody who will play with me. So I don\'t really if my opponents uses unpainted proxies made out of stolen balloons, I\'d be too thrilled to have someone to play against

I remember when I played in a tournament once (I played 2 games out of about 30, but meh ). My completely Drune army was on the table and attracted more onlookers then I ever thought possible. The best remark I ever heard was \"Well, I suppose they look better when they\'re painted...\" and everyone agreed, thereby informing me that I was the only one in the store to have a painted army

 

[JakeSh]

You can play a game with minis?

News to me!!

 

[Grey Mouser]

This idea of not being able to play with unpainted armies goes back to the days of Historical gamers, fielding blocks of unpainted mini\'s. It is very hard to tell who is who in a historical game without the colors. The same could be true of two oppponents playing space Marines against each other. I personally don\'t play with unpainted armies, if you want to just play a game with unpainted stuff I could suggest video games, board games, and for that matter go buy some toys already pre_painted and play with them... I\'ve seen this done by the way. Also for those none painters there is Hero clix, A fantasy version of Hero clix and a lord of the rings hero clix.

I do not understand the allure of spending tons of cash for terrain? Miniatures? and the rules only to sit on your side of the table with an unpainted army. No I did not paint my monopoly pieces but I do paint lead or pewter. I do not like going to a store or a group and playing a primered unrecognizable mess. I do understand why it happens and I am somewhat sympathetic to the plight of people with less free time, but still, at least make an effort. I\'d rather play a guy who has a low skill level of painting ability and makes an effort, than one who shows up every week with the same primered mess. I think I\'m with the paint nazi. LOL

 

[NecroN]

A marketing point of view

Personally I play my games on my nice big 8*4 table in my basment. Paint is no where near requried, and neither are the right minis most of the time.

Now when running a game at a store, or in a tourney even I would insist on painted miniatures. Why? Because painted minis make the game look much better to the public. The visitors, the other people in the shop, the people looking up tournament results from home, etc.

Painted armies look damn good. This is what gets people into the games and the hobby to start with.

How many of us would even be in this hobby if we walked by a GW store and there were unpainted minis on the field and in the display cases. If we picked up a magazine and all the photos were of unpainted minis. If \'eavy metal spent more time on showing you how to asemble and rank up minis instead of how to paint them.

The paint is what catches your eye. It\'s what separates a miniature wargame from any other boardgame. Avalon hill has probably the best wargamming rules out there with Squad Leader. Why is it not as popular as Warhammer (actually it may be more popular come to think of it, but that\'s not the point), because it\'s designed to use chits.

The visual appeal of the game is what got most of us into it. The fact you could see minis painted by \'the greats\' is what had us striving to improve.

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by NecroNHow many of us would even be in this hobby if we walked by a GW store and there were unpainted minis on the field and in the display cases. If we picked up a magazine and all the photos were of unpainted minis.

Just to be contrary, I did.
Dragon Magazine and the General, and various other game related magazines of the day (even Boy\'s Life) advertised minis in their gray form. The local game shop had displays of minis unpainted in huge dioramas in cabinets.
Painted is definitely cooler, but unpainted was not considered bad form back then.

p.s. I think the current GW catalog shows the minis painted, but look at the Stuff of Legends site to see all the old unpainted catalog pics.

 

[GreenOne]

I\'ve been playing D&D for a while, back then, I used anything to simulate the battle ground, metric paper with risk pieces, dices, erasers, anything.
After I got fed-up of D&D, I was looking for something different. I heard about warhammer, saw the lead figures in their blisters, 5$ each, when I heard how expensive it could get, for a board game, it did not make sense to me. Then I met my friend\'s bro., and his gang, they\'re playing unpainted, and they like it. In their head, they see real soldiers, they say.
But that\'s what I did back in D&D time, the game is still good, but it\'s all just in your head.
Then I picked up his army book, looked up the colored pages in the center. Thunderstruck, it all became clear, boardgame with a visual kick, fantasy with a real, tangible, material feel. Now it seemed to be worth the price.
I decided then, that if i was to play that, it would be with painted minis, on full scenery table, else I\'d be better off playing D&D or some video game... hence, I haven\'t played yet.
An unpainted lord, which you pay about 20$ for is worth nothing, take a salt dispenser and call it a lord, it\'s the same. Once painted it\'s worth way more than the retail, even if you suck. A 15 muinute paint job is good enough for tabletop, not pewter.
But that\'s only sad for those who bought them and don\'t fully profit from them.

But considering all the work, once I got my army ready for the game, I\'d be sad if unable to match-up against painted army
and even frustrated, for the interest of this game, and for me what distinguish miniature wargaming from other games, is the visual kick of two fully painted armies fighting on a complete scenery.

Since I am surely not the only one feeling this way, the painted army rule should be enforced to some extent, maybe have painted and unpainted categories, or the like, to provide those that spent hundreds of ours painting their army some advantage, which they clearly deserve, as the respect of those gamers-gamers which clearly spent less money, less effort, less time, and thus are less deserving of the hobby, IMHO.

Edit: Looking back at this reply, it seems I had a lot on my mind.

 

[vincegamer]

Personally I just like the idea of a point bonus for painted armies.

Another option would be a psychology bonus - less likely to flee an unpainted army. Though that makes less in-game sense.

 

[supervike]

Those are interesting ideas....

how far could it go though?

A Great painted army should never run from a poorly painted one?

It would end up more like a Peacock fight than a battle!!lollol

 

[NecroN]

Originally posted by vincegamer
Personally I just like the idea of a point bonus for painted armies.

Another option would be a psychology bonus - less likely to flee an unpainted army. Though that makes less in-game sense.

The first time GW introduced the colours of magic for Warhammer, back in some White Dwarf (110 or so, I have it but it\'s not near me) there were rules based on what colour your minis were painted as well as rules for what colours the oponents were painted. So say you were facing an army painted predominatly red, your Bright Wizard wouldn\'t be as useful.

I always liked that and it gave me inpiration to paint up my guys at the time.

We have also played what painted units get +1 combat resulution, and another game we used the rule that painted units count as having a standard for free.

Wouldn\'t know equivalent rules for 40K as when I played I actually had totally painted units.

 

[Ogrebane]

When I first started playing I was one of 3 people at the tournament that had a painted army. What Ive found since is with the bonus points system more people paint thier armies. They are not forced to they do it so they can win. As yet no unpainted army has ever won at any of our tournaments.

I like the bonus point system and as I live in a democracy I think people should be free to choose (but thier is nothing wrong with incouraging people to your point of view.)

 

[Wren]

Originally posted by funnymouth
wow, thats a neat hg wells fact. huh, ill have to see if i can find a copy of those books

You picked a good time to get interested in these, as a republication of one of those books is due out within a month. It\'s coming from Skirmisher games, item 0601, MSRP $9.95. Here\'s a description:

\"Floor Games is a republication of H.G. Wells\' 1911 classic on recreational gaming, which includes numerous tips on creation of improvised models, terrain, and other wargaming props. It is often referred to as a companion volume to Wells\' wargaming classic Little Wars. Features of this new edition include a Foreword by renowned game designer James Dunnigan, an Introduction by publisher Michael J. Varhola, hundreds of pieces of the \'marginal art\' that illustrated the original 1911 edition of the book, and eight photographs taken for the original edition of the book showing the props and games created by Wells and his sons.\"

Looks like Skirmisher did a republication of Little Wars already. There\'s also a copy on Project Gutenburg, but it won\'t have all the artwork and such.

 

[funnymouth]

cool wren! thanks for the info.

 

[philologus]

I have friends who paint themselves up for Football Games; and even though their paintjobs are excellent no one ever lets them play. They just scream and yell alot at the players; but there is no doubt that they attract alot of attention for their wonderful paintjobs.