Pro Painted? HA! - whatever...

[DrClarke]

[soapbox]

Ya, I\'m in one of those modes today. Work is forcing me there. (freakin\' IT industry).

I\'m still relatively new here, but one of my pleasures is to view the bazillions of minis here just for inspiration and ideas.

In fact I view a butt-load of sites to better learn.

I\'ve discovered two common things though that kinda rub me wrong

#1 - Ebay. I think Ebay is cool. I also think people selling painted minis on Ebay is cool too. What I don\'t think is cool are people that use false advertising (and I do say this in the loosest of terms). Meaning in their description they put Pro-Painted HA! Now granted, there are indeed some serious kick ass painted minis for sale, but so often I\'m mislead by such false advertisement. I scour Ebay for inspiration also, because there are indeed a lot of pictures on there. Oh well, whatever. I just kind of find it humorous. If we were to judge \'pro\' or \'professional\' by Ebay standards... hell, even I would be a pro!

#2 - I love this site. Kinda slow sometimes, but it contains an ungodly amount of examples! What I don\'t like. The rating system. In my opinion it needs to be tossed right out the window. Why? It\'s obvious. Too many damned \'griefers\'. I think the option to leave comments on minis is fine, but the ability to leave some sort of \'point/level\' system just goes sour on the interenet, unless it\'s a very small tight knitted group. Examples? I\'ve seen plenty of solid work on this site that i would generously think is solid 6 or 7 point material. I mean seriously solid ass work. Yet, they\'ve got 4-6 ratings? I\'ve seen figures with bad photographs and paint jobs that resemble Testors model paints with only flats (no tones, shades or depth), and they get ratings of 6-8? What gives on that? I guess ultimately it shouldn\'t matter. People simply should \'know\' not to take the number ratings to heart now?

Okay I\'m done. Remember, this is strictly my opinion and no insults or offense are intended directly.

[/soapbox]

 

[Errex]

Mmmm...

Personally, I don\'t care that much about ratings here anymore, but I do value the comments left on my minis. Facts is, a mini that consistently gets a high mark, be it from Jen Haley, SVP, Bobby Wong, or whoever, is likely to be a really good mini. (There is, of course, the fan base factor to be accounted, but statistically, it does not have that much an impact over time)

Disgruntlement comes mostly from the minis rated between 5-7. It has been discussed to death what makes a mini good, with no clear answer, so, I won\'t go into that. Just enjoy the site, pick what you want, and above all, have fun.

 

[vincegamer]

scores

Originally posted by DrClarke
[soapbox]

....
I\'ve seen figures with bad photographs and paint jobs that resemble Testors model paints with only flats (no tones, shades or depth), and they get ratings of 6-8?
....
[/soapbox]

I don\'t know what you are talking about. I have some minis up that ARE painted with testors model paints with only flats and they fill 4 of the 10 lowest scored minis on the site, all below 4! Before you go saying scores are too high or too low, see what a bad mini actually gets!

 

[shortboy]

Well, this topic has come up many times on various sites and there are different opinions on the \'Pro-Painted\' topic. One basic philosophy is, if your paid for it this can qualify you as a professional. Another is that if you make your living painting then you are a professional. I wouldn\'t say that the quality of the job should indicate the professionalism of the painter as an artist. Their are many artists in the world that clearly show a wide variety of talent, but all are generaly considered profesional artists. I would recommend to always view a piece by your own taste and not be too concerned with what the add says.

 

[Errex]

.... and thus, let\'s carefully sidestep the spiky topic of Artistes VS Hired Brushes ....:

 

[DrClarke]

Heh... I wasn\'t overly aware that this topic in general is in the official \"dead horse\" category again, I mostly am here for the viewing of other peoples creations.

I honestly really do think even the lowliest of painted minis are good. Everyone interested in the hobby does indeed need to start somewhere. Some of us, myself for example, have to struggle and work to get this \'art\' thing to bend to our will.

I think comments are much better than ratings.

I simply love the site for the amount of painted minis I can scan through and get ideas from or be completely 100% jealous of cause I\'ll never master that technique or reach that level

.... and thus, let\'s carefully sidestep the spiky topic of Artistes VS Hired Brushes ....:

this eludes me. is this another dead horse topic?

 

[Mengu]

About the term \"Pro Painted\".... It doesn\'t mean painted by a golden demon winner. It doesn\'t mean painted well. It just means painted by someone who does this for a living.

The terms I don\'t like are: Painted to a very high quality (by whose standards?), painted well (I slapped all the paint I own on there), and painted by expert (expert in Sri-Lankan history? NOM).

Anyway, I don\'t particularyly pay much attention to e-bay. It is a place of deception. A starting price of $100 for a miniature will sometimes give the false impression that it\'s a good paint job... Anyway, I never buy painted miniatures since I like to paint them myself, and accept however sad the outcome may be. So take my word with a grain of salt.

 

[Errex]

Originally posted by DrClarke

.... and thus, let\'s carefully sidestep the spiky topic of Artistes VS Hired Brushes ....:

this eludes me. is this another dead horse topic?

Not exactly. It is, more or less, a subject that usually lead to heated arguments wich never end really well for anybody. more of an Evil Undead Horse from Hell, rather than a dead horse topic...

 

[Panzerbane]

Brushfight at the O.K. Corral

LOL. Artistes vs Hired Brushes? I envision Cowboys killing mimes in painters smocks for some reason. Seriously though, I don\'t know who out there brazenly decides they\'re \"pro\" painters but I believe this: If you go out there and see something like Jen Haley\'s work and go \"WHOAH!\" then you should never call yourself a pro. I get between 5\'s and 6\'s. Why? because I\'m good, but I have a lot to learn. compared to some, I\'m a rank amatuer. I look at the \"pro painted\" stuff on Ebay and I think how idiots could pay money for some of that stuff. my worst piece is better than that!

 

[Chern Ann]

Respect the voters

:flame:
They\'re pretty consistent, as pointed out by Temperance in this thread.

Just because you don\'t have the same opinion of what is good or not as the general population may entitle you to ignore their opinion, but certainly not disrespect it.

Saying \"I think this is worth an 8\" is a meaningless statement unless it\'s followed by \"compared to that\". It\'s a subjective scale since all minis are compared with each other.

In my opinion, the problem is with the actual numbers themselves. Nobody likes to be called a six. It sounds lame. Everyone wants to be an eight. If it was just a label that said \"Not Bad\" (which is 5.5 to 6.5) that would probably be fine.
\"Hey, my mini is \"not bad\"!\" as compared to \"Hey, my mini is 6.4!\"

My answer to that? Suck it up , numbers are easier to understand over multiple languages and you\'ll get used to what kind of result gets what kind of rating. The voting is part of what makes this site exciting (no pain, no gain). You can\'t be happy about the day you get an 8 or 9 unless you know it\'s hard as hell.

Oh, one other thing while I\'m at it. 5 votes is not statistically significant. Just because one crackhead votes a 1 doesn\'t mean 99 other voters are idiots, calling them so is unfair and very rude, irrational and jumping to conclusions.

If 100 votes later, the mini is scoring a 5-6, the tough answer is, it probably isn\'t very cool even if you think it is. A thicker skin allows for much more rapid improvement.

 

[Badaab]

Well... as usual, here\'s my soapbox rant...

One reason why I\'m skeptical about posting... or hesitant, or whatnot, is that I\'m an egotist, and don\'t want a low rating on any of my stuff (which should be nothing but 10s, IMHO... lol).

But anyhow, the votes are pretty consistent. However, some people tend to kiss a little ass to certain people... and will vote them higher. Just an observation.

Joe

 

[Badaab]

Can I even say \"ass\" on here? oh well... LOL

Joe

 

[Badaab]

Ok, this is my last post in a row, I promise... but I keep thinking of things to add.

Personally, I respect things that certain people can do with a brush. I suck at NMM. I understand this... so naturally, anyone who can do the technique well I respect.
However... I like strong, bold colors, and really can\'t stand bland monochrome stuff, or too many pastel colors. I also can paint freehand designs fairly well (this comes from hand-painting hundreds of Aurora Chapter Space Marine chapter badges and squad designations... over and over and over and over and over and...) So naturally this won\'t impress me as much as the things I mentioned in the last paragraph.
But, in respect to that, anyone who makes a miniature their own, with an original style of painting, and presentation, and (and and) good color theory, representation, and by utilizing good movement (this is best described by using a color in a traid pattern, to help lead the eye around the piece, and concentrate on its focal point....). 2D classical art elements translate well into miniature painting and the best pieces will show this....

Anyway, I don\'t think I made too much sense, or whatnot, but still... the best minis will show mastery of a certain individual style, and have originality, as well as mastery of artistic concepts. The painter\'s name is simply a tag... ignore it, eh?
Joe

 

[Aschul]

I certainly agree that the \"pro-painted\" term on ebay has become really silly and meaningless, and in fact almost derogatory.

I do consider myself a professional painter though. The painting I do is paying the bills and it\'s my only source of income right now.

I think \"pro painting\" should imply a certain degree of competence (good grasp of assembly and modelling skills, clean painting with at least some rudimentary blending/layering), but it does not necessarily imply some sort of heavily converted/artsy/overdone/GD-winning level.

Even though my work tends to stay between ratings of 6-7 here, all of my customers have been very happy. The guy who commissioned the executioners (image 7868) said they were \"incredible\" and he was \"blown away\". Similarly, the witch elves (6677) sold on ebay for $200 (for a group of 15).

So, while I agree that most ebay \"pro painting\" stuff sucks, I do not agree that being a \"pro painter\" means you are the next Jen Haley/ Matt Verzani/ Bobby Wong. I think to be a \"pro\" you have to be able to paint in a way that is efficient, consistent and attractive.

Most people [that I\'ve painted for] are just so happy they didn\'t have to paint their entire 2000 points of Dark Elves themself that getting them painted to a better than average quality is more than enough for them. And that\'s what my work is - it\'s much better than what the average gamer is painting, and certainly more than adequate for a wargamer\'s army. For a lot of people, that\'s worth paying for.

I think it would be very cool to have a sort of \"pro-painter certification\". Basically there would be a committee that would review a few samples of a painter\'s work and if the work meets certain standards of competence, the painter would earn the right to display the \"pro painters\' seal\" on their auctions and website. Of course I can think of a few problems with that, but it would be a start anyway.

My only gripe(s) with the ratings are that you have this mysterious number attached to your model with no idea of what it\'s based on, good or bad. So the rating can be a bit meaningless. The reason most minis get a rating of less than 7 is because the models that rate highly here are some of the best anyone\'s ever painted. So the standards are quite high. Photography is the other problem; unless you can spend $500-800 on a digital camera, you really have no hope of scoring an 8 or higher.

 

[Panzerbane]

Skill vs Flash divided by opinions = jack

Ratings? relative. Personal taste in the minis? inconsequential. Skill? there\'s where the money lies. Personally, I\'m not a Warhammer 40K fan, but I paint em and I give credit where it\'s due. Someone out there has made a decent W40K mini look cool to me. why? Skill. Sivousplay for example. His miniatures are cool, his color scheming however I personally have found bland. pastels and bright white highlights on off white or very light colors. He always gets 8\'s and 9\'s from me. Why? Skill. He blends almost flawlessly, paints superfine details perfectly and his imagination for dioramas and techniques are inspirational. If your taste doesn\'t jive with the minis or the color schemes, look past it into the skill and care involved. thats where ratings should come from.