professional painters courtesy HA

[freakinacage]

i\'ve only posted 11 in the w.i.p section (3 on my own i think) i\'m crap. i won\'t bother if there is nothing i can add or if i don\'t like the subject matter (in the case of your ogres)

i disagree with dragonforge slightly. sometimes a little push to open your eyes from someone elses perspective can really help. like proof reading, you don\'t always appreciate where you agre going wrong until you have someone point it out to you

 

[Braveheart712]

A bit bored at work today, so I logged on to CMON to see what might be new...

I found you thread and began reading it. DesertDragon, I understand your frustration and I am sorry that you feel as such. Let me offer a few words of advice, maybe they will help, maybe not, but here they are....

CMON is a community of painter and artist. The most active and often the most vocal are the elite that pride themselves in their painting skills. They are good people for the most part, but they tend to concentrate on their own friendships and strive to improve themselves, often ignoring newbies. This is not to say they have not viewed your work, but right now you are not at the level that would merit comments. Read over the tutorials, view other work, improve your photography, keep posting and paint, paint, paint. You will improve, I am sure! What I see right now is that you paint above standard tabletop level and do have the ability to excel, but give yourself some time. Please do not focus on the comments of others, you will get some great advice from time to time, but you also will get some downright rotten attacks along with it. Paint for the reasons that are important to you. I paint because I enjoy the hobby. Paint because it relaxes you. Personally I have grown to the level now that I paint for the occassional commission in several hobby shops I frequent. I still enjoy helping beginner painters, along with my son, to learn techiniques and improve their skills, but keep in mind everyone feels the same way. Don\'t get discourage and keep trying, great results will happen in your painting future.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by Braveheart712

CMON is a community of painter and artist. The most active and often the most vocal are the elite that pride themselves in their painting skills. They are good people for the most part, but they tend to concentrate on their own friendships and strive to improve themselves, often ignoring newbies.

I\'m sorry, but this is the biggest bunch of hogwash I\'ve heard.

MOST people on these forums go out of their way to help newbies. The simple fact is, the more active of a forum member you are, the more people are apt to give you comments. No different than in the real world....people open up a dialog, and once people feel comfortable with one another, they tend to give opinions more.

To protray the CMoN crowd as a bunch of narcissitic ego-driven paint snobs tells me you\'ve missed the whole point of the forums.

FOR EXAMPLE....Matty1001. He hasn\'t been a member here for very long, but once he did, he actively engaged others. Left comments, asked questions. He was a NEWBIE....no one ignored him. Uberdark is another...very active in the forums....When I see thie names in the DISCUSS SUBMISSIONS, I go and comment....BUT THEY RECIPROCATE.

I don\'t understand the mindset that says \"I demand you to look at my art and tell me how to get better...but I will not do the same for anyone else\". Then, when you don\'t get that, its the communities fault...for being snobs.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, and I could be way off base. I have been in the past.

 

[matty1001]

Originally posted by raginggaijin

Originally posted by desertdragon1964
How is anyone going to improve on their painting skills when the members of this site just ignore anyone who they dont consider up to professional level.

Find some painters you like, then contact them. Chances are they are more than willing to not only share their tips and tricks, but also critique your gear to help push you forward.

Thats what i did, I prodded Ritual with a stick until he decieded to give me advice on painting a model.

(Actually i didn\'t do much prodding, he was very willing to help, cool bloke that Anders. Funny looking, but cool none the less )

 

[matty1001]

Originally posted by supervike
FOR EXAMPLE....Matty1001. He hasn\'t been a member here for very long, but once he did, he actively engaged others. Left comments, asked questions. He was a NEWBIE....no one ignored him.

Cheers Vikey! I knew all that arse licking would pay off in the end lol

 

[vincegamer]

The only thing I disagree with is not understanding the mindset.
A lot of people seem to think that only people with master level skills have a right to critique.
Thus newbies sometimes come thinking they will get critique but won\'t give any because they don\'t think they have the skills.

It\'s not true. If it were, film critics would be out making movies, restaurant critcs would be chefs etc. You can appreciate something without being able to replicate it yourself, and thus anyone can leave comments.

You are absolutely right that the best way to get comments in general is to give comments. Any time I get a comment on one of my minis, the first thing I do is jump over to the commenter\'s gallery and start dropping comments.

 

[Ritual]

@matty
:moon:

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by matty1001

Originally posted by supervike
FOR EXAMPLE....Matty1001. He hasn\'t been a member here for very long, but once he did, he actively engaged others. Left comments, asked questions. He was a NEWBIE....no one ignored him.

Cheers Vikey! I knew all that arse licking would pay off in the end lol

Note I didn\'t say you were a \"well liked member\"

But also note I was calling you a \"member\"

lollol

 

[Braveheart712]

Vike, no offence intended, but as you are entitled to your opinion, so too am I.

You may be the exception, but when was the last time that you left a comment on an average painters posted work? It doesn\'t happen to often that comments are left except if the work is in the extreme, bad or good. This community is somewhat closed and intimidating to the newbie, you can choose to agree with that statement if you like, or slam me for making it if you want, but it will not change my opinion one bit. Too often newbies are discouraged when starting out, whether it be intentional or not. Yes, there are some examples like Matty, but that does not disprove what I was trying to say either. Again no offence was intended or directed at anyone, but if you want an honest opinion, this site does has a reputation as sometimes being harsh on new artists, and sometimes comes across as elitist.

 

[Avelorn]

@Braveheart: I actually think you are mistaking the forums for the site.. they are quite different thing when it comes to the community aspect. I don\'t think I am selective when leaving comments in the discuss submissions forum.. but I have to admit that I do tend to leave more fan-boy comments when casually browsing then leaving helpful constructive criticism. I also tend to look more at 8+ rated work though.. I blame time I guess. Because it\'s not that I don\'t find tabletop work stimulating to see.

So what you say might be true somewhat for the comments of the site in general (friends commenting on friends and so on) but I don\'t agree for the forums. If you post miniatures in the discuss submission part of the forum you most often get helpful and constructive criticism.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by Braveheart712

You may be the exception, but when was the last time that you left a comment on an average painters posted work?

5-18-2007 at 11:07 AM

In Funnymouths thread (no offense Funnymouth, I don\'t mean to point to you as an AVERAGE painter)

I do it almost everyday I am online. I don\'t think of it as anything special or out of the ordinary. I don\'t do it to get votes or comments back either. I do it because I like the people here, I love minis, and I want to help encourage folks. The main core of the forums does it as well. I\'m here everyday, I SEE It!

But yeah, no offense taken at all. You are certainly entitled to that, and I\'d have no right telling you how to feel about it. All I can say is, I apologize for that. I will try and pay more attention to it, maybe we all need to do a better job incorporating the newbies, and I\'ll start with me.

Beers all around! :beer::beer:

 

[Arkzein]

Originally posted by EArkham
And for the record... one post offering someone else detailed critique is worth a dozen where you only add, \"Nice colours!\" I\'m just saying, that\'s all.

Myself, I read posts in the Discuss Submissions folder, but I don\'t comment unless I have something useful to add or something about the mini really strikes me. I suspect there are a lot of folks who do the same.

Otherwise, what Ritual and others have said here I can only echo.

Kep

Just to say I\'m more in line with this. I view a lot of other folks work, but refrain from generic \"That\'s great\" posts. On the other hand a lack of skill and experience and then not wanting to post something if I can\'t say anything nice keeps me back otherwise. I don\'t *like* to criticise, even if constructive, plenty of others tend to leave better advice than I could offer. Often by the time I look at a thread everything I would say and more is there in the replies and I would add nothing.

Agreed it\'s somewhat selfish asking for feedback and leaving little oneself, but different strokes for different folks. Some like leaving critique, others don\'t or can\'t, one shouldn\'t feel obligated either way. Certainly going against ones nature and leaving a lot of comments for the sole reason of recieving them back seems entirely wrong to me. (I\'m not saying anyone replying here does, just in the regards to the \"reply more to get more\" theme that has cropped up here) It is true though that it does generate a lot more PMs and such back, I\'ve certainly recieved a lot from the comments I have left, but I don\'t go hunting for them, when I see something I feel the need to say something on, I do. Nothing more, even if it does mean recieving less back in return (Only natural after all)

 

[desertdragon1964]

First let me begin with those who have commented here thank you for your intrest everyone it warms my heart to see people taking an intrest in what others think.Uberdark it is not just my ogres it is other minis as well some mine some not the ogres just set me off.I understand your p.o.v. and agree with you.Ragingaijin gooc advice for myself and others,never truly thought of pm ing folks for advice until this thread came into existance figured most to be to busy.SV no guilt just honesty should have thought about the(you scratch my back theroy long ago).Freakinacage that is what I was thinking someone elses P.O.V. .Braveheart thanks for the complementsas I stated earlier this is just my hobby and a way of relaxing just want to get a little better.Matty101 like your stick idea it just might work.DD