protesters bring firearms to town hall meetings

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by uberdark


im afraid? bullshite.

now if a man has a gun right in front of me, yes i will feel very uncomfortable and would not like it.

im talking about using guns in a way to instill FEAR into a topic that doesnt need to have it put in there in the first place.

Uber, uber, uber...
Go back and reread your posts.
Me doth think you protests too much.
You are making a huge deal out of a well dressed man who had an AR-15 strapped to his back.
Who showed no signs of hostility.
Who did not \"wave\' the gun around as you claimed.
What is there to fear?
Why would you feel uncomfortable and not like it?
That is fear.
It\'s nothing really to be ashamed of, fear is an excellent survival mechanism.

I\'m not being insulting, I\'m asking you to take a step back and actually, critically, examine your own emotions and agendas, and why this bothers you as much as it does when no laws were broken, no one was threatened, and no one was in any danger of being hurt.
You are running this argument on pure emotion.

Let me break it down for you. Guns are inanimate objects, they do not cause fear, nor do they alleviate fear.
Fear is in the mind, you can choose whether to be afraid or not.
If you are insisting that they are using guns to intimidate or cause fear it is because you let them. It is because the sensationalist media has programmed you to feel distrust and fear of anyone with a gun.
People like Airhead and I do not fear this and I\'d bet you Airhead would\'ve probably gone over and talked to the guy, as would I.

edit: on a side note... the main reason i dont say things on here is because you have one group on one side and another on the other side. neither side rarely gives any way in their own beliefs so i guess this is a social experiment that doesnt work.

Au contraire... this little stunt has people talking all over the internet.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by slah

Originally posted by Evil Dave

Guns are tools used for killing. Hammers are tools used for nailing. Just because I OWN or EVEN carry a hammer does not mean I use it for every situation or even at all. Hell, I may go through life in which I never have to use a hammer, but It\'ll be a good day when that rogue nail pops up and I have just the tool for the job on hand.

But this is exactly the point we soft lefties ( ) are trying to make. You don´t run around with ahammer all the time. You pick it up when you plan to use it - either because you want to build something or you´re checking the fence for warped nails and such.

The same thing applies to guns. You pick them up when you plan to use them - why else do it? And guns are used for shooting. So when I see a man with a gun, my logical conclusion is that he´s walking around with a gun because he plans to use it - for shooting - why else is he carrying it?

Actually, I have a complete tool kit in my truck at all times. I also carry a pocket knife at all times.
I leave the gun at home, but apparently for some lefties this is not enough...

 

[uberdark]

thanks evil dave: im glad to know now that i dont know my own feelings and that i am afraid.

as i said before you come off as a know it all at times and this is one of those times. so i leave it to you to continue to discuss this topic... have fun as i said i am done.

btw: only reason i responded to this was to respond to you directly and not on the matter of guns and fear.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by uberdark
thanks evil dave: im glad to know now that i dont know my own feelings and that i am afraid.

as i said before you come off as a know it all at times and this is one of those times. so i leave it to you to continue to discuss this topic... have fun as i said i am done.

btw: only reason i responded to this was to respond to you directly and not on the matter of guns and fear.

It\'s easy to appear as a know it all when one\'s opponent is only using emotive arguments.
But hey, man, no worries, honest self examination is one of the hardest things for people to do.
I am serious though. Think about this and internalize it for a while.
Why do you think this was intimidation?
And if the guy made no hostile intents, then is it actually intimidation/fear or an assumption on the viewers part?

 

[uberdark]

Originally posted by Evil Dave

Originally posted by uberdark
thanks evil dave: im glad to know now that i dont know my own feelings and that i am afraid.

as i said before you come off as a know it all at times and this is one of those times. so i leave it to you to continue to discuss this topic... have fun as i said i am done.

btw: only reason i responded to this was to respond to you directly and not on the matter of guns and fear.

It\'s easy to appear as a know it all when one\'s opponent is only using emotive arguments.
But hey, man, no worries, honest self examination is one of the hardest things for people to do.

you have just proven my point dave. by making this statement you come across as a know-it-all. which is something i am sorry to say i frankly have no time for. good day.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by uberdark
you have just proven my point dave. by making this statement you come across as a know-it-all. which is something i am sorry to say i frankly have no time for. good day.

And you\'ve just proven mine.
It\'s easier to simply get offended and blame someone else rather than examine your own feelings and motives.

 

[freakinacage]

Originally posted by Evil Dave

Why do you think this was intimidation?
And if the guy made no hostile intents, then is it actually intimidation/fear or an assumption on the viewers part?

why else would he have the gun there. it would be one thing if it were in the boot of the car but to have it slung over his back, it is obviously for intimidation. why else would he have it? was he in the middle of a sporting event or a hunt?

don\'t get me wrong i am pro-gun ownership (with strict control though) but either he is being deliberately intimidating or he doesn\'t understand social boundaries.

while i can understand that a guy holding a gun may not make you blink in your home town, but, in most parts of the world people would be worried

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by freakinacage


why else would he have the gun there. it would be one thing if it were in the boot of the car but to have it slung over his back, it is obviously for intimidation. why else would he have it? was he in the middle of a sporting event or a hunt?

Because in this persons view, he is showing to Pres. Obama, that he cannot take away his guns. I think the \'intimidation\' factor is probably the cherry on top of the sundae for him.

Health care isn\'t what is frightening these \'over the top\' individuals. They have been riled up by the Right Wing pundits into believing this is the first step in taking away all their liberties. You see Socialized Health care is one stop on the road to fascism....(or so the Talking Heads will make you think).

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by supervike

Originally posted by freakinacage


why else would he have the gun there. it would be one thing if it were in the boot of the car but to have it slung over his back, it is obviously for intimidation. why else would he have it? was he in the middle of a sporting event or a hunt?

Because in this persons view, he is showing to Pres. Obama, that he cannot take away his guns. I think the \'intimidation\' factor is probably the cherry on top of the sundae for him.

Health care isn\'t what is frightening these \'over the top\' individuals. They have been riled up by the Right Wing pundits into believing this is the first step in taking away all their liberties. You see Socialized Health care is one stop on the road to fascism....(or so the Talking Heads will make you think).

Oh, come on Vike, like the Left Wing didn\'t pull similar if not worse when GW was in office.
I mean come on, they were actually assaulting Ann Coulter on college campuses, and she is a private citizen.

I simply see this as nothing at all to get worked up over.
A man practiced his right to bear arms while infringing on no one else\'s rights.
The sad thing is is that while I\'m pretty right wing, I can see this as a stunt, and the very fact that left leaning individuals get worked up over means in worked.
Thank you for playing.

 

[DrEvilmonki]

Originally posted by Evil Dave

Originally posted by uberdark
thanks evil dave: im glad to know now that i dont know my own feelings and that i am afraid.

as i said before you come off as a know it all at times and this is one of those times. so i leave it to you to continue to discuss this topic... have fun as i said i am done.

btw: only reason i responded to this was to respond to you directly and not on the matter of guns and fear.

It\'s easy to appear as a know it all when one\'s opponent is only using emotive arguments.
But hey, man, no worries, honest self examination is one of the hardest things for people to do.
I am serious though. Think about this and internalize it for a while.
Why do you think this was intimidation?
And if the guy made no hostile intents, then is it actually intimidation/fear or an assumption on the viewers part?

The problem is you have no way of knowing this guy had no ill intent. In a country with a long proud history of shooting it\'s own leaders bringing a gun to a presidential rally is just absurd and shows a complete lack of thought.

The fact that the guy in question belongs to a church who just the day before the rallywhere literally praying for Obama\'s death, to the point of saying someone should speed the process tells me that the guys intentions are more than a little questionable.

 

[DrEvilmonki]

Originally posted by Evil Dave

Originally posted by supervike

Originally posted by freakinacage


why else would he have the gun there. it would be one thing if it were in the boot of the car but to have it slung over his back, it is obviously for intimidation. why else would he have it? was he in the middle of a sporting event or a hunt?

Because in this persons view, he is showing to Pres. Obama, that he cannot take away his guns. I think the \'intimidation\' factor is probably the cherry on top of the sundae for him.

Health care isn\'t what is frightening these \'over the top\' individuals. They have been riled up by the Right Wing pundits into believing this is the first step in taking away all their liberties. You see Socialized Health care is one stop on the road to fascism....(or so the Talking Heads will make you think).

Oh, come on Vike, like the Left Wing didn\'t pull similar if not worse when GW was in office.
I mean come on, they were actually assaulting Ann Coulter on college campuses, and she is a private citizen.

I simply see this as nothing at all to get worked up over.
A man practiced his right to bear arms while infringing on no one else\'s rights.
The sad thing is is that while I\'m pretty right wing, I can see this as a stunt, and the very fact that left leaning individuals get worked up over means in worked.
Thank you for playing.

The difference between Obama and bush? Obama it is ok to come to a rally with a loaded gun. Bush you get arrested for wearing an anti bush shirt to a rally.

 

[supervike]

@ Evil Dave

You are absolutely right. The Left Wing idiots like to play with fire, and do all kinds of very immature stunts as well.

But, now that they have gotten their way, its\' the Right Wing\' Cry babies\' turn.

They are both wrong!

Too many folks only look at whether there is a D or an R in front of a politicians name. Then they either support or oppose them, accordingly!

How asinine is that???

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by DrEvilmonki
The problem is you have no way of knowing this guy had no ill intent. In a country with a long proud history of shooting it\'s own leaders bringing a gun to a presidential rally is just absurd and shows a complete lack of thought.

The fact that the guy in question belongs to a church who just the day before the rallywhere literally praying for Obama\'s death, to the point of saying someone should speed the process tells me that the guys intentions are more than a little questionable.

Don\'t you actually have to commit a crime to be guilty?
He committed no crime.
While I agree it was stupid, the person that was actually in danger was himself as I\'m absolutely positive they had secret service snipers on him at all times.
Any idiot would know this.
He was making a statement, nothing more, nothing less.

edit: In a way I gotta give the guy some grudging respect. It\'s not easy sitting out there thinking you might be a target. It has to be extremely harrowing to know full well that there is a sight right on your skull.
You have to admit, not many of us have such a strong commitment to our beliefs.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by supervike
@ Evil Dave

You are absolutely right. The Left Wing idiots like to play with fire, and do all kinds of very immature stunts as well.

But, now that they have gotten their way, its\' the Right Wing\' Cry babies\' turn.

They are both wrong!

Too many folks only look at whether there is a D or an R in front of a politicians name. Then they either support or oppose them, accordingly!

How asinine is that???

I know, I hate both parties (although I will admit I loathe D\'s more) and long for a reemergence of the Jeffersonian Party.
I\'d like nothing more than to vote every bastard in office out and start with new blood.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by DrEvilmonki


The difference between Obama and bush? Obama it is ok to come to a rally with a loaded gun. Bush you get arrested for wearing an anti bush shirt to a rally.

You are forgetting the man was in Arizona following Arizona\'s laws. He even notified the police he would be doing it and let them know who he was.

 

[DrEvilmonki]

Originally posted by Evil Dave

Originally posted by DrEvilmonki


The difference between Obama and bush? Obama it is ok to come to a rally with a loaded gun. Bush you get arrested for wearing an anti bush shirt to a rally.

You are forgetting the man was in Arizona following Arizona\'s laws. He even notified the police he would be doing it and let them know who he was.

No I am not forgetting that at all, are you suggesting there is a state where it is illegal to where an anti-bush t-shirt?

And no I don\'t respect the guys commitment to such an ignorant purpose.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by DrEvilmonki
No I am not forgetting that at all, are you suggesting there is a state where it is illegal to where an anti-bush t-shirt?

No, but what I am suggesting is that there are states with different laws for disturbing the peace or interrupting others\' freedom of speech.
Was the rally a private function?
Was it Republican only?

And no I don\'t respect the guys commitment to such an ignorant purpose.

From reading the snide remarks in this thread I have a feeling you don\'t respect anyone\'s commitment to a purpose that is different than yours.

Which is why I dislike leftists more. My philosophy does not involve infringing upon others\' rights.
Leftists on the other hand believe in infringing on our rights for our own good.

\"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron\'s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.\"
- C.S. Lewis

 

[uberdark]

Originally posted by Evil Dave

Originally posted by DrEvilmonki
No I am not forgetting that at all, are you suggesting there is a state where it is illegal to where an anti-bush t-shirt?

No, but what I am suggesting is that there are states with different laws for disturbing the peace or interrupting others\' freedom of speech.
Was the rally a private function?
Was it Republican only?

And no I don\'t respect the guys commitment to such an ignorant purpose.

From reading the snide remarks in this thread I have a feeling you don\'t respect anyone\'s commitment to a purpose that is different than yours.

Which is why I dislike leftists more. My philosophy does not involve infringing upon others\' rights.
Leftists on the other hand believe in infringing on our rights for our own good.

\"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron\'s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.\"
- C.S. Lewis

dave,

you are grouping all leftists into a small box. how nice of you to live in your dichotomous box... in your world of black and white and no grays. you automatically come to a conclusion about me earlier and do the same thing with others. this thread has degraded into nothing more than a slander fest of others. i tried to talk to you through email but apparently you only find it fun to discuss things where others can see you on top of your box for all to see.

all it does is make you come across as a person who likes to stir the pot and not be accepting of others ideas. i for one agree with you on many things. but when you tend to attack cmon members by saying they think in one way when you dont know what they are like in real life it becomes slanderous. why not look within yourself and see what you see.(as you have said to me earlier)

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by uberdark

Originally posted by Evil Dave

Originally posted by DrEvilmonki
No I am not forgetting that at all, are you suggesting there is a state where it is illegal to where an anti-bush t-shirt?

No, but what I am suggesting is that there are states with different laws for disturbing the peace or interrupting others\' freedom of speech.
Was the rally a private function?
Was it Republican only?

And no I don\'t respect the guys commitment to such an ignorant purpose.

From reading the snide remarks in this thread I have a feeling you don\'t respect anyone\'s commitment to a purpose that is different than yours.

Which is why I dislike leftists more. My philosophy does not involve infringing upon others\' rights.
Leftists on the other hand believe in infringing on our rights for our own good.

\"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron\'s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.\"
- C.S. Lewis

dave,

you are grouping all leftists into a small box. how nice of you to live in your dichotomous box... in your world of black and white and no grays. you automatically come to a conclusion about me earlier and do the same thing with others. this thread has degraded into nothing more than a slander fest of others. i tried to talk to you through email but apparently you only find it fun to discuss things where others can see you on top of your box for all to see.

all it does is make you come across as a person who likes to stir the pot and not be accepting of others ideas. i for one agree with you on many things. but when you tend to attack cmon members by saying they think in one way when you dont know what they are like in real life it becomes slanderous. why not look within yourself and see what you see.(as you have said to me earlier)

No, uber, I came to a conclusion about you after years of reading your posts.
All I am doing is asking you to step back, chill out, and discuss in a non emotional rational matter what you feel is wrong with what this guy did. To do so might actually require some deep thought. This is not a BAD thing.
I am not being rude and have said nothing that was directly insulting to you unless you choose to twist it that way.
Uber, seriously, dude. I mean this in no bad way, but you do tend to get rather emotional ( I\'m saying this after years of discussing things in this very forum) and it\'s hard to have a rational discussion with people who don\'t want to have a discussion but rather rant.

I am attacking no one, as both you and Dr.evilmonkey are the ones who started using comments like \"idiotic, bollocks\" and generally dismissing all views other than your own.

Lumping all other into groups? Pot calling kettle, come in kettle.
Did we not hear that for eight years while GW was in office?

As to your emails I did not know you had sent any, my browser here at work does not allow pop ups.

 

[DrEvilmonki]

Originally posted by Evil Dave

Originally posted by DrEvilmonki
No I am not forgetting that at all, are you suggesting there is a state where it is illegal to where an anti-bush t-shirt?

No, but what I am suggesting is that there are states with different laws for disturbing the peace or interrupting others\' freedom of speech.
Was the rally a private function?
Was it Republican only?

And no I don\'t respect the guys commitment to such an ignorant purpose.

From reading the snide remarks in this thread I have a feeling you don\'t respect anyone\'s commitment to a purpose that is different than yours.

Which is why I dislike leftists more. My philosophy does not involve infringing upon others\' rights.
Leftists on the other hand believe in infringing on our rights for our own good.

\"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron\'s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.\"
- C.S. Lewis

It would seem your defense of other peoples rights and praise of their commitment only goes as far as those that you yourself agree with.

Your comment on the phelps clan protesting on public property outside of funeral?

Originally posted by Evil DaveIn all honesty though, I believe the Phelps cult should be wiped off the face of the planet.

The reality is that you show little respect of opinions that differs from yours while bemoaning the \"leftists\" for basically not fawning over your every view point.

All rights have limitations, where those limitations should be is a perfectly valid discussion to have. When you come up with an arguement that is actually convincing then I will listen to you.

EDIT: Just saw your comments about the langauage I use. Your assumption that I am dismissing peoples views out of hand just because of the use of words such as bollocks is off the mark. I view CMON as a place I can have an informal coversation, I use informal langauge. I would say the same thing sitting with my mates discussing what pizzas we should order.

I have to mow the lawns now. You have asked for more of an explanation of why we \"leftists\" think what the guy did was wrong. While I doubt anything I would write would change your view (since I think you are at least equally closed minded as you claim the left is) I will still give it a go later.