Question about Banners

Robert Herold

New member
Hi! when it comes to banners im pretty much clueless, my aim is to make a lovely new banner for my army but i have no idea where to start...i wan't something quite detailed which i've been using images that i found on the web and used photoshop to make something that hopefully will suit my khorne army...now here is my question, is there a way to take this image i designed on photoshop and apply it to the banner without having to freehand paint it as my painting skills are quite honestly horrific. I will post the image i made and the banner i would like it to go on with this post, thankyou kindly to anyone who can help me with this :D

P.S i apolgoise for the size of the pictures, i'm kinda new to this XD!
 
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Bloodhowl

Active member
Excellent advise thankyou very much, gonna go buy me some special decal paper and print it out o_0

Glad I could help. I think the tricky part will be getting it sized correctly to fit the plastic banner.

Make sure you have a decal solvent like Microsol or Testor's decal set to help the decal conform to any folds/irregular contours on the banner!

And post up images once the project is complete!
 

QuietiManes

New member
If you split up the image, it'll be easier to get it applied to the banner. So, if you do that big red head as one image, the skulls and "khorne banner" as another image, it should be much easier to get those placed correctly. The outline you'd want to do by hand, I'd think, as placing that on those folds and getting it sized right would be a nightmare. Although...that might not look as nice...the bumpier surface of the flag.
 

Robert Herold

New member
Thanks! :D i assume the decal paper is just like ordinary paper except when u've printed ur image on it you cut it out and treat it as a decal so dunk it in water and wet the surface you want to apply it to and then gently slide it off the paper onto the model and adjust it accordingly till you get the right placement? and good idea about splitting the image into different sections that would make it easier. Once the image is on the banner though how do i lock it in so it doesnt get damaged do i coat it in something?
 

Bloodhowl

Active member
Sort of. I think you need to spray a clear lacquer over the top of it and let that dry before putting it into water. If you don't, then the colors will run off the decal paper when you put it into water. Double check the tutorial on waterslides I linked earlier.

I was always taught for decals to spray (or brush) the area with a gloss varnish, apply the decal, use microsol or decal set to get the decal to conform to the surface, seal with a gloss, then spray (or brush) with a matte if you need a non-reflective surface.

The decal will adhere better to the smooth gloss than a matt finish, and the gloss helps hide any of the clear decal film that can't be trimmed off. Another gloss on top seals it to the model and further helps hide any decal film.

Link to more detailed explanation of applying decals and using setting solutions: http://www.modelairplanebuilding.com/decals-and-markings.html
 
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QuietiManes

New member
The decals you get with historical tanks and planes and GW kits etc, etc, etc, have the image printed on the bottom of the decal, on the glue side. The decals you print off yourself will have the image printed on the top side. I don't think you can use the decal solvent with "printed on the top" decals. If the decal is covered in varnish the solvent wouldn't do much anyway...plus it'll be hard to get the decal to form to the curves. Decal setting solution would work the same.
 

Bloodhowl

Active member
The decals you get with historical tanks and planes and GW kits etc, etc, etc, have the image printed on the bottom of the decal, on the glue side. The decals you print off yourself will have the image printed on the top side. I don't think you can use the decal solvent with "printed on the top" decals. If the decal is covered in varnish the solvent wouldn't do much anyway...plus it'll be hard to get the decal to form to the curves. Decal setting solution would work the same.

Several posts in the R/C forums I visit say they use the setting solutions with no worries on their homemade waterslide decals. Only way to be sure would be to try a small one with the solvent on some scrap plastic and see what happens.
 

QuietiManes

New member
I've never made or used the home made ones so I can't say, just sounds like a bad idea to use the solvent. There's a large difference between decal sol -solvent- (a chemical designed to dissolve the plasticy layer the decals are printed on) and decal set -an actual setting solution- (chemicals designed to help the decal be placed, positioned, laid down flat with no air bubbles, makes the decal more soft/flexible, makes the glue stronger, etc). Sometimes it's hard to figure out which one people are talking about because the biggest and best known brand calls itself Micro Sol setting solution and Micro Set...

Do the R/C guys like to remove the tell tale bump from the decal paper?
 

Einion

New member
Robert, my advice would be to work on your painting until you're able to attempt banners. Like with anything it's not quite as hard as it looks to begin with, on the technical side it's just a matter of practice with your brush control, paint consistency etc. Working towards this kind of thing will give you a concrete goal and will greatly help your painting generally.

Past the physical side of putting the paint on, this is mostly a matter of breaking the banner design into stages that you work through one at a time - like the old saw, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

Einion
 

Robert Herold

New member
Yeah from what i've been hearing from people using decals tend to give a poor effect and don't look too pretty so i think your right that i should work on hand painting them instead because not only will it hopefully look better but it will also improve my painting skills like you said, saying that though i have seen some very complex banners in gallerys that look awsome but it's hard to tell if they were hand painted or done using transfers. For now i'll just work on my freehand skills but might give decals a go to see for myself and see overall how good they work out. I would greatly appreciate if anyone has any other methods of how they produce nice looking banners to please share with me. :D Thanks!
 

Legacy Account

Active member
Do it the old school way: Make your banner pole out of brass rod and then simply use a print for your banner. Rag the edges up with a knife and add a bit of weathering with some pastels. Should look just fine - better than the decal idea for sure.
 

Einion

New member
Do it the old school way: Make your banner pole out of brass rod and then simply use a print for your banner. Rag the edges up with a knife and add a bit of weathering with some pastels. Should look just fine - better than the decal idea for sure.
Good option :good:

...saying that though i have seen some very complex banners in gallerys that look awsome but it's hard to tell if they were hand painted or done using transfers.
For stuff done by people you know are very good painters there's a decent chance they're entirely done with paint. It's very easy for very complex and intricate patterns and similar freehand to seem impossible early on - don't worry, nearly everyone feels the same way - but if you start simply and work towards more complexity in stages, it might not take you as long as you'd think to get to something that your current self thinks is pretty amazing.

Einion
 

Bloodhowl

Active member
Not saying you need to go this route, but GW has some of their newer banners with the detail molded on. You could get a few of them and practice until you feel comfortable to try some freehand work. Would save you the time on deciding on a design and more time practicing the techniques.
 

BPI

New member
I've had a go at freehand designs a couple of times, always come out better than I anticipated, Red Orcs in my Gallery being easiest examples to find. Just dive in and start painting. My preference would be to use foil for the banner cloth (like from a tomato puree tube. Cut open when pristine, stick tomato into a bowl in fridge, neatly cut out banner). Paint it flat then flex into shape when mounting to the pole. If overflexed and paint has split, minor touchups once it's all in place.

Break the design down so that it is easy to replicate. Some ideas that may help you to approach this:

Get a sheet of tracing paper/baking parchment. Trace the image with a fine black marker. Helps to establish the key outlines. Familiarity with the image from doing this helps to copy design onto banner. Could always use traced image to run over foil, impress outline in. Or use soft pencil then reverse and transfer graphite to basecoated foil.

Put a square grid over image. Copy each square onto banner, makes copying easier, particularly curves.

Paint approach. I'd suggest a flat red base. Pen or brush in outlines. Fill outlines with white/yellow where required. Glaze/blend to increase definition, perhaps some fine pen crosshatching if you like the effect. I find it easier to get the black outlines in if I thin them using the colours to either side rather than trying to paint a fine line in later.

Don't rely on hugely magnified photos to tell you whether it's good enough. For us mere mortals it's never going to look like a Leonardo ;) But if it looks good ranked up with your troops in the unit, you've won :)

Good luck, B.

PS I wouldn't expect an exact replica either! None of the images I've done looked like what I'd first imagined, these things develop as you paint and a misjiudged brushstroke is sometimes esaier to run with than starting again!
 
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