Ah, so you fall into the same side of the Timing Sequence argument that my playgroup does. However, tournament organizers and the rules group on Discord (made up of many of those Tournament Organizers) have said that Zone Resolution is a "When the zone is claimed" trigger, just like Influence, NCU abilities, and Tactics Cards. So Zone Resolution is a simultaneous effect, meaning the active player resolves all of their cards, abilities, *and the zone effect* before the Targ player would resolve Field Control. This wouldn't be a big deal if Field Control's ability said "Before resolving the zone's effect, you may force your opponent to replace...", but it doesn't. Because it doesn't specify a different timing, it operates on the simultaneous effects timing.
RAW Field Control doesn't work on opposing NCUs
- Thread starter Hecaton
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Ah, so you fall into the same side of the Timing Sequence argument that my playgroup does. However, tournament organizers and the rules group on Discord (made up of many of those Tournament Organizers) have said that Zone Resolution is a "When the zone is claimed" trigger, just like Influence, NCU abilities, and Tactics Cards. So Zone Resolution is a simultaneous effect, meaning the active player resolves all of their cards, abilities, *and the zone effect* before the Targ player would resolve Field Control. This wouldn't be a big deal if Field Control's ability said "Before resolving the zone's effect, you may force your opponent to replace...", but it doesn't. Because it doesn't specify a different timing, it operates on the simultaneous effects timing.
If what you are saying is true than field control would be unplayable because claiming the zone would immediately trigger the zone effect, meaning you could never force your opponent to replace the zone effect before it’s resolved.
Also, the rules specifically say influence has to be applied when the zone is claimed, which has to occur first, I.e in order to use a zone you have to claim it.
If that’s how the discord group wants to play it to make field control on opponents useless that’s cool, but that’s not how my group interprets it.
And the card does say “you may FORCE your opponent to replace the zone effect” which should occur before the zone effect is triggered otherwise why even write the card in the first place
Another way to think of it is as follows: consider in other cases that tactics cards with the same trigger are thought to be simultaneous. So for this example both endless horde and field control are simultaneous. Endless horde has to resolve first, otherwise the zone effect wouldn’t change. Since field control has the same trigger it would also occur at the same time, before the zone effect occurs. If it did not then you would be left with a free maunever instead since claiming the horse means you immediately have to trigger the said effect without playing tactics cards first. This logic is generally foolproof without further rules clarification from CMON. Of course any event organizers have the final say on a tournament basis. I found a lot of people saying the same thing on Reddit, here is one example.
Also, the rules specifically say influence has to be applied when the zone is claimed, which has to occur first, I.e in order to use a zone you have to claim it.
If that’s how the discord group wants to play it to make field control on opponents useless that’s cool, but that’s not how my group interprets it.
And the card does say “you may FORCE your opponent to replace the zone effect” which should occur before the zone effect is triggered otherwise why even write the card in the first place
Another way to think of it is as follows: consider in other cases that tactics cards with the same trigger are thought to be simultaneous. So for this example both endless horde and field control are simultaneous. Endless horde has to resolve first, otherwise the zone effect wouldn’t change. Since field control has the same trigger it would also occur at the same time, before the zone effect occurs. If it did not then you would be left with a free maunever instead since claiming the horse means you immediately have to trigger the said effect without playing tactics cards first. This logic is generally foolproof without further rules clarification from CMON. Of course any event organizers have the final say on a tournament basis. I found a lot of people saying the same thing on Reddit, here is one example.
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Listen, I'm with you on there needing to be a distinct timing sequence where all of the "When Claimed" effects happen *before* Zone Resolution. But I am telling you tournaments don't run the game that way, nor do they rule it the way we think it should be. Also, they rule that Field Control just works. Not because of Ruled as Written, because it wouldn't work that way, but because they think the card should work as intended. They specifically break RaW in order to make one half of one card work. It is specifically why I wanted this topic pushed; so that maybe someone official would rule on whether there are timing windows or whether the second half of Field Control doesn't work. I don't even care if they go in and either fix the card or put an FAQ ruling into the rulebook. I just know something needs done with a few of these ruling questions that haven't been answered.
That's exactly what we're saying. The card is written wrong.
It is untrue that the card does nothing if it is resolved in the correct order.
There are certain cards like "Careless Aggression" or "Mind Games" that allow you to activate and resolve an NCU in the enemy turn. In those cases, Field Control would take precedent and be resolved first. Therefore, we can draw a conclusion, that Field Control might be a card that is created to allow the Targaryen player to hard counter NCU activations in their own turn; not to counter 99% of the cases when NCU claims a horse zone.
There are certain cards like "Careless Aggression" or "Mind Games" that allow you to activate and resolve an NCU in the enemy turn. In those cases, Field Control would take precedent and be resolved first. Therefore, we can draw a conclusion, that Field Control might be a card that is created to allow the Targaryen player to hard counter NCU activations in their own turn; not to counter 99% of the cases when NCU claims a horse zone.
I was aware of those but was ignoring them for simplicity's sake. But yes, that would be more reasonable than the current BS we have now.
GingerMammoth
New member
Where as I hear what your saying. In this case I think it's not quite right.
Feild control should have that same wording from counter plot to clear it up.
They missed a chance to do this in the 2022 reprints.
If the active NCU gets to resolve first then the card Feild control is literally not controlling the feild at all so the spirit
and intent of the card is not playing out. Targarians get two very duff ineffective cards.
Which if I was Targerian. I feel I would have a grumble about that.
Honestly that card is too powerful anyway.
For reference - Careless Aggression is at the start of the round before you establish an active player. (however you could have an argument that is is whoever is first for that round)
Also - Mind Games doesn't let you activate an NCU, so Field Control would also not work in this instance.
So, in the case of Field Control - it would MAYBE work in the case of Careless Aggression and that is it.
Or a Targ player could use it when they claim a zone. I might see it happen.
GingerMammoth
New member
Totally disagree the card is too powerful. Some people would say Endless horde is too powerful but I think that as long as each faction has powerful stuff then it should balance. If all the cards were nerfed and reduced to +1dice bonuses or add a token then game would get flat real quick and we would get bored. So becareful what you wish for calling for cards to be nerfed. Just except the strong cards with good grace. Is my opinion.
GingerMammoth
New member
Cards over rule the rule book.
Seem to remember there is a line in the rule book which states if the card rule clashes with the rule book rules then the card takes priority. Which would again shift the debate to feild control stopping endless horde
Seem to remember there is a line in the rule book which states if the card rule clashes with the rule book rules then the card takes priority. Which would again shift the debate to feild control stopping endless horde
It wouldn't simply because of how timing on simultaneous cards works. Field Control's trigger is "When an NCU claims Horse." That's it. Further text on the card doesn't elaborate on the timing of the resolution, and there is a precedent for that being a thing on so very many other cards. Field Control doesn't create a problem with the timing rules, and so even if there *were* a rule that says "cards override the rule book" (which I couldn't find and would like to know where it is if it does exist), the card itself still isn't challenging the way the rulebook timing works on simultaneous card resolution.
Doesn't apply in this case.
GingerMammoth
New member
All things considered I think we are getting knowhere without an official ruling.
Would be very happy to see a ruling on feild control added to the Faq.
Cmon go to great trouble to resolve issues in the game. I have faith they might see this thread and agree it needs
clarification.
Some strong arguements either way.
Myself I think it was the intent of feild control to be a counter play card and I would rule it as such.
(an probably amend the card slightly.)
The other ruling would segnificantly undermine the targarians card and devalue it.
I don't like to see that personally. It would be no worse than counter plot.
I'd be happy either way as long as I know what to expect an this does not appear to ruin my day
in a tourniment setting because that would suck. If I get drawn against Targs I thing I would ask the
Judge before game which way he is ruling it.
Hope a rules lawyer from Cmon has seen the thread an is right on it. If you have could you give us a nod ??????
Thanks
Would be very happy to see a ruling on feild control added to the Faq.
Cmon go to great trouble to resolve issues in the game. I have faith they might see this thread and agree it needs
clarification.
Some strong arguements either way.
Myself I think it was the intent of feild control to be a counter play card and I would rule it as such.
(an probably amend the card slightly.)
The other ruling would segnificantly undermine the targarians card and devalue it.
I don't like to see that personally. It would be no worse than counter plot.
I'd be happy either way as long as I know what to expect an this does not appear to ruin my day
in a tourniment setting because that would suck. If I get drawn against Targs I thing I would ask the
Judge before game which way he is ruling it.
Hope a rules lawyer from Cmon has seen the thread an is right on it. If you have could you give us a nod ??????
Thanks
