Reaching for a higher standard bearer.

[barkel]

Ok, I recently had what I think is a cool idea for a goblin standard bearer. I\'ll be posting the results when I\'m finished, but for now I\'m having a problem with the actual Standard, or flag.
I bought a piece of thin copper and I cut it into the shape of a tattered flag. I wanted to use metal so I could bend the flag to look \"in motion,\" but I didn\'t want to use metal as thin as foil because I\'d constantly be bending the flag back into shape and repainting it. So the problem with the copper is now I have these sharp metal edges and a pretty darn heavy flag.
So, my question is this; how do you folks make standards that look like they are flowing in the wind? And if you use the metal strips do you have the weight or sharp edge problems?

barkel

 

[finn17]

Higher standards of standards

The old fashioned solution to this used to be by using the material toothpaste tubes were made out of, a soft metal alloy. Tooth paste tubes have now been replaced by pump dispensers etc and a valuable source of material has been lost.

I still think you can get this stuff however. I would look at anything in a tube down at your local supermarket, tomato paste, mustard etc. Who knows, you might even find toothpaste:flip:

The advantages of this material is that it is very flexible and rarely has sharp edges. If you plan things right it is also FREElol

 

[Sand Rat]

Another solution would be to make the standard out of facial tissue soaked in white/pvc glue - its fairly easy to do and can be draped in a manner that looks reasonably convincing, rather than stiff. If you want to go with the metal method, then I would blunt the edges with a file

 

[barkel]

very interesting, both

finn17 -I have heard of the toothpaste and I\'m afraid that it would have the same problem as folded tin foil; the slightest bump would bend the metal, still, it\'s worth a try. If you have done this, does the paint stay pretty well or do you find yourself making touch ups every so often?

steelcut -I have not heard of this idea. I\'m intrigued. How long does it take to set? And does it set all the way, in other words, will it be hard or still plyable?

Thanks guys. I have dulled the edges of my copper flag, but it still seems like an oddly shaped ninja weapon. I went home for lunch to try and apply it to the bearer. I\'m certain the weight of this thing is going to constantly cause it to pull apart from the mini. I like the way the copper flag works, but I think I\'m going to try one or both of your suggestions. I\'d rather deal with hassle now, before it\'s painted.

barkel

 

[supervike]

pull apart the mini?

Is the banner making the mini too top heavy, or is it causing stress on the glued joints?

If the first was the problem, you could solidify the base with a metal washer or something similar.

If the second, maybe a bit of epoxy glue would strengthen it more.

If it is neither, forget I posted!!lol

Actually, I bought a piece of \'lead foil\' with the express purpose of making a banner, not too long ago. It is heavy enough to hold the shape, but I think I would have to be extra careful when moving or storing it. It is basically like the toothpaste tube, but about 3 times thicker, and a 3 times more expensive.....

 

[finn17]

That is always going to be a problem...

Originally posted by barkel
finn17 -I have heard of the toothpaste and I\'m afraid that it would have the same problem as folded tin foil; the slightest bump would bend the metal, still, it\'s worth a try. If you have done this, does the paint stay pretty well or do you find yourself making touch ups every so often?barkel

I have done it and it worked pretty well, or so I thought at the time. Once you have cut a piece to size you need to de-grease it thoroughly and then just roughen up both sides with a bit of steel wool. You obviously have to fold it and then paint it. Do it the other way round and the paint will just drop off! It is vulnerable, as you say, but show me a big showy standard that isn\'t! I don\'t play with my pieces so that has never been a problem however. If you definitely wanted to use it as a playing piece, I would suggest using thin, flat plasticard and painting the sculptured effect on. Easier said than done however:bouncy:

 

[Nelson]

You could also use the copper banner as a base for a greenstuff one. Just oil the banner up, spread the gstuff over it, and cut off any excess over the edges. The greenstuff will aquire the coppers folds. After some curing time, you can remove it, and you have a nice reasonably light banner that can be filed and shaped more.

 

[barkel]

great ideas

Actually, supervike, both I\'m afraid. I have not actually put the flag on the mini. I wanted to paint the picture on the flat flag first so I could be as artistic as my miserable hands will allow. Then I\'ll bend the flag, then stick it on the model. I\'m afraid the flag will be too heavy for the glued joints and too heavy to stand. But I don\'t know yet.

The greenstuff idea was a good one. I might try that. If only I didn\'t suck with greenstuff.

Your posts made me think of another idea. I remember back in the day when I was in youth group we made these cheep cross necklaces out of plastic. We took these strips of plastic and dipped them in nearly boiling water. The plastic got soft and we molded it and it quickly solidified. If I could find that it would make for a great flag. I remember it dried pretty freaking hard, but not at all heavy.

I don\'t suppose anyone knows what I\'m talking about and what that thing might be called?

barkel

 

[Nelson]

Hey, don\'t worry about the greenstuff. With my sculpting skill and technique, I might as well be using plastercine or clay. The process I used for the banner was quite simple. I pounded it flat with a book, then laid it on, cut edges, etc.

 

[Dedwrekka]

Ive had good results useing cotton cloth. once you paint it it will stiffen and you can generally bend/shape it anywhich way. It is also not too thick or too thin, you can make it look frayed pretty easily, and it actually looks like cloth (cause it is).lol

 

[AAvH-Darkblade]

Originally posted by Nelson
Hey, don\'t worry about the greenstuff. With my sculpting skill and technique, I might as well be using plastercine or clay. The process I used for the banner was quite simple. I pounded it flat with a book, then laid it on, cut edges, etc.

This is what I usually do and it works quite well. I press it between two sheets of plastic that I have lathered with waterbased . . . ah . . . KY jelly . . . Doh!

The cotton cloth idea works really well if you paint and shape it with white glue. It will harden nicely and you can use a sheet of paper to form it on one side while the glue drys on the other. Once dry flip over and add glue to that side. Use regular white glue watered down a little (smoother) and an old brush.

 

[aon14]

Paper is good.
If you can\'t see the weave on a figure\'s clothes then you shouldn\'t really be able to see it on a standard.
Work out the size.
Don\'t forget to allow for attaching.
Draw, trace or print the design on the paper whilst flat.
Paint the design in basic colours.
Apply a coat of thin pva to both sides.
Cut out.
Form to shape you want.
Test attaching it to pole.
Apply lo and hi lights.
Glue it on.

You could also use 10 thou plasticard if your heart\'s set on forming it to a complex shape. This\'ll become floppy in hot water but you\'ll have to use enamels to paint it if you paint it first.
One way of stripping acrylics is to lob the figure into boiling water.
HTH

 

[Flashman14]

I\'ve long used lead foil fo r banners - you can usually find it at places where 54mm figs are sold - they use it for straps, belts and all that - it\'s very similar to what Finn was talking about in tubes. Much lighter then that brass you mentioned and fairly firm once primed and sealed. Here\'s two web vendors you might try:

http://www.internationalhobby.com/ihs/kpsearch.asp?VendorCode=8600

and

http://www.djhobby.com/cgi-bin/indexpage.pl?http://www.djhobby.com/catalog/mh-decalsdetailing/VERLIN.html

Also the Miniature Page has some ideas: In general this is a great resource for all kind of mini issues.

Here it is:
http://www.theminiaturespage.com/ref/flagmake.html#materials

 

[MrKlipp]

Originally posted by barkel
I wanted to paint the picture on the flat flag first so I could be as artistic as my miserable hands will allow. Then I\'ll bend the flag, then stick it on the model.

Am I reading this right in that you are saying you plan on painting and *then* bending the flag? If so, don\'t even think about it, with any of the materials discussed here and any others I can think of this would just result in a banner with the paint cracked and peeled off any areas that were bent or reshaped.

 

[vincegamer]

too heavy?

Having carried a banner on a pole I want to point out that if it\'s too heavy for the mini it may be too big. A 6\'x4\' piece of sturdy fabric can snap a 2\" diameter wood pole in a strong wind. They may be visible to the gamer but I like to keep things in proportion so if it\'s too heavy for your joints it may just be too big for the mini.

 

[halon]

At different times I\'ve used all of the methods that have been discussed here and I have to say stay with the paper. You can shape it without the paint cracking, It isn\'t heavy, it isn\'t too thick scale wise, if you use white glue or glue sticks it holds a bend as well or better than metal, and you can cut it to a finer point if you want to fray the edges. But if you insist on using metal the aluminum seals on pringle cans or the larger coffee creamer or even cat food tins works pretty well.

 

[Sand Rat]

@ Halon - hadnt thought of those

@ Barkel - I\'ve attached the tissue/glue first then painted (on 54 mm figures for longer coats, etc) but never tried it the way you are talking about - but I may give it a try and see what happens

Damn we need an experimenters corner

 

[freakinacage]

similar to finns toothpastes tube, i nab the foil from the top of wine bottles. its thin and fairly strong. and best of all you, have to drink the bottle of wine - d\'oh!

 

[TW_JaM]

[quote
This is what I usually do and it works quite well. I press it between two sheets of plastic that I have lathered with waterbased . . . ah . . . KY jelly . . . Doh!
[/quote]

Hmmm... just found another use of this stuff !!

 

[finn17]

Hmmm....

Originally posted by TW_JaM
Hmmm... just found another use of this stuff !!

I think there is a whole KY Jelly thread on here somewhere, but you would have to do some real gumshoe work to track it down \'cos I know it ain\'t called \'KY Jelly thread\':bouncy: