Requesting feedback on a Fire Breathing Dragon test I did in metal wire.

QuietiManes

QuietiManes

New member
I did this as a test, so no need to grind my gears about the lack of detail or the unfinished wings. Of course, if you feel pationately about it, feel free to grind my gears good and hard.


I'd still like to know what ya'll think. Click the thumb for a larger picture, click the picture you're taken to for an even larger picture...the thumb is almost useless.


Size wise, in its pose, there's just over 8" between wing tips, just over 5" head to tail, the "stream of fire" is about 5" long out of the mouth...the head is only 3/8" long by 3/16" wide. Made it with some stiffer than I'd expect steel wire I got at the dollar store ages ago, it's about half a millimeter wide...so it's around 24/25 AW/SW gauge I guess.



The legs do look a little awkward in the picture, not at all in the hand or other pictures...but I couldn't get them to look right at the viewing angle I wanted to show...so anyway. Imagine it flying overhead burning a village or cooking a cow for dinner.

Cheers.
 
QuietiManes

QuietiManes

New member
Oh, no, I'm not going to be doing any traditional sort of clay or putty sculpting on that. I do lots of "wire sculptures"...in essence, just like that, but a bit more wire work to them. As mentioned, that was a test for a few ideas "in wire", not for any sort of armature or anything else.
 
QuietiManes

QuietiManes

New member
I know it's not quite what you'd expect to find on a miniature forum but I have a high amount of respect for the members here and wanted to see how they liked or disliked it. Thanks! :dance:
 
PegaZus

PegaZus

Stealth Freak
Cool concept. I think the head is a little too round for a dragon, at least the ones typically depicted. Maybe a little bit longer on it. Other than that, don't see a lot to criticize especially considering the medium.
 
QuietiManes

QuietiManes

New member
It's mainly a size issue. Being so small, while you "can" do much more detail, it gets really hard and troublesome. Kind of like sculpting regular miniatures I guess. If/when I go bigger and better with this idea, the head will be more like what you'd expect. Now that you mention it...the length is really, just a mistake on my part, bad planning/execution, the neck should be longer, too. The wings should be a fair bit larger I noticed before posting...um...yeah...

There's really a ton of things I'm not happy about but it was just a test after all, so, that's why I'm happy with what I learned from the test piece. I guess it's just a teaser for when I finish my next piece.

Thanks for going at it with a critical eye, PZ. :search: :doh:
 
PegaZus

PegaZus

Stealth Freak
Yeah, I've done some wire work before, and been a bit disappointed in the tradeoff between durability and flexibility. Was making Christmas ornaments out of copper wire, but had to have it thick enough to survive gentle handling, but that meant the points of the stars were rounds instead.

And happy to rip the concept apart and throw it back at you. It's what we do. :)
 
QuietiManes

QuietiManes

New member
Oh, yeah. If you look online you can get wires that are hardened or softened, that make a big difference. But generally, if you just pick up a spool in the store or strip some electrical wires, you're stuck with the softer varieties. Especially for copper and aluminum. You can twist and/or braid thinner wires together up to the bend, then form the sharper point and continue twisting/braiding until the next bend. It's probably a lot more work than you had planned to do and a very different look in the end, but if you ever get the urge again it's one way around it. I like good old regular steel and/or galvanized steel, you can get it at art shops in the flower sections, fencing and automotive sections at hardware stores, picture hanging section or chain/rope section of many big box stores, etc. It's usually a good mix of hard enough and soft enough. It's also way cheaper than the other stuff. But I digress...
 
freakinacage

freakinacage

Well-known member
QuietiManes said:
Oh, no, I'm not going to be doing any traditional sort of clay or putty sculpting on that. I do lots of "wire sculptures"...in essence, just like that, but a bit more wire work to them. As mentioned, that was a test for a few ideas "in wire", not for any sort of armature or anything else.
Click to expand...
In that case, it looks brill. I would have said the legs were too thick if you wanted to sculpt over them. Agree the head needs more bulk, kinda gets lost otherwise. Also maybe try making the fire blooming out at the bottom as if it has hit something, but that depends on how you want it to look
 
QuietiManes

QuietiManes

New member
In that case, it looks brill. I would have said the legs were too thick if you wanted to sculpt over them. Agree the head needs more bulk, kinda gets lost otherwise. Also maybe try making the fire blooming out at the bottom as if it has hit something, but that depends on how you want it to look
Click to expand...

My own personal preference is for the dragons with no arms and tiny heads and huge wings. Where the head is just a touch larger than the neck it is sprouting out of, that's why it's so miserably small. It's not a popular opinion though, I don't think. It's something I'll have to consider a little more, if I ever want to be broaden my popularity. Perhaps I could compromise? Do child dragons, with big heads, consoling myself with the idea that they grow into their heads like humans. Lol.

The original concept was to do a dragon dive bombing strait down, spewing fire where the fire is just hitting the ground and just starting to explode outward from that point. It would basically just stand up on its own, in a big tower like pose, the flames being a few times the length of the dragon. Although that might need to be adjusted with a little artistic license so the dragon isn't lost in the composition.
 
wiccanpony

wiccanpony

Official Freak Bar Witch
Nice, do keep us up to date on the stages as the beast evolves (pics) …........ really interested on how the flames will turn out
 
M

mud duck

New member
I like it. The head looks like Kermit the Frog, a pissed off one that is.

The things that look off to me is the position of the tail and the rear legs. They 'read' to me a falling/ skydiving/ tripping, maybe bringing them more in line with the line of travel? just my two cents. Really is something that you don't see too often.
 
QuietiManes

QuietiManes

New member
Hehe. Kermit was a monster when the cameras were turned off, I heard.

The um legs, yeah, well, the idea was that the dragon was flying in, breathing fire, sort of at a slight downward angle...and one wing should be down, the other up, as it banks left. The head is turned left and the flames spew out towards the left. So the leg position looks better, when the it's in a better position. I'll go take a better pic and add it to this post in a minute...
 
QuietiManes

QuietiManes

New member
Or rather, I'll pad my post count!

Ok, so, assume camera is horizontal...

Head on, notice the spines (therefore chest, wings, etc) tilt:



From the side (should be tilted head down a bit more):



From the other side, overhead and forward a touch:



Does that look better? The idea is he's like clawing/paddling to turn...or about to grab a villager to snack on. If it still looks off, I may have to rethink it before I do a larger one.
 
M

mud duck

New member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hecXupPpE9o

I guess if you good with the idea of grabbing a snack this is what I seeing in my minds eye. Maybe he's just picked something/one up and is BBQing the rest?

another one that may give you ideas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TItHEUOXCeI

The first 30 seconds or so show 'some' maneuvering using the feathers on the wingtips. Call it "flaring" for lack of a better term perhaps a dragon would stick a finger out of line too increase drag on that wing? Fingers as alierons, or tuck a wing into the body to decrease lift on that side?
 
QuietiManes

QuietiManes

New member
Hrm. Yeah. Maybe I'm putting to many actions into the pose. Thanks for the links. You've given me something I obviously need to put some thought into. I'll have to watch some more predatory bird footage and maybe some good dragon cartoons and movies, dig out Reign of Fire and the like. Maybe some bats hunting if I can find it.

Who knew an eagle to take down a wolf with such relative ease? I thought they drew the line at fish, rabbits and rodents.
 
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