Riddle Help

[dougaderly]

I already know the answer to this riddle, but I need some help with the backstory, for any of you who have heard this:

\"Five and five and forty five to the first letter add, you\'ll find a thing that killed a king and drove a wise man mad\"

For those of you who may have heard of this before, can you name the wise man and the king?

If need be I\'ll post the answer, but I thought I\'d leaev it blank for those of you who want to try it.

 

[MarkusTay]

I know what the \'thing\' is, but the first part confuses me; I\'m not sure what it references. As far as who the wiseman and the king were, the king was either Ceaser or King George (both work), but the wiseman could actually be several people.

Or am I way off base here?

 

[dougaderly]

way off. I\'ll PM you the answer, I just wish I still knew the guy who told me the riddle. I got the answer without understanding the last line of it...

 

[Highbulp Billy]

Am I right in thinking that the \"thing\" is something that would be considered unpleasant? Or is it just my twisted mind at work here???

 

[dougaderly]

DON\'T READ IF YOU DON\'T WANT ANSWER

Don\'t read this if you don\'t want the answer










5+5+45=55, Roman numeral for 55 is LV, LV+A, LAVA.

So I can\'t figure out what mythological or story references this is for. A king killed by lava and a wise man who supposedly was tortured with lava until he went mad. It\'s been years since I\'ve seen the guy who told me the riddle, and now that I\'m trying to explain the references, I can\'t for the life of me find references to what these stories could be.

:cussing:

 

[Highbulp Billy]

Must admit I was struggling to get the numerals to become VD - this has many links with Kings and madness throughout history - no ideas about the lava guys though, sorry.

 

[Gilvan Blight]

The only referance I could think of is Pompeii and Herculaneum.

Pliny the Elder could be the Wiseman (perhaps even the Younger). I don\'t remember which King would have been involved, but there had to be some form of ruler there.

 

[Shawn R. L.]

Kahmauhmauh?

 

[MarkusTay]

Okay, was way off (I got the Ceaser/Roman connection, sort of), but the answer to the last part I thought was OPPRESSION.

It\'s an old saying dating to just prior to the American revolution -

\"Oppression will kill a king and drive a wise man mad.\"

I think it was meant to be some sort of covert \'threat\', before the revolution happened.

I have no clue about the lava reference, so obviously the quote and the riddle are unrelated, just coincidence.

Although I do find lava rather oppressive.

 

[Tony Manero]

Originally posted by Shawn R. L.
Kahmauhmauh?

Catmeowmeow?

for me the only reference is Ercolano and Pompei too

 

[dougaderly]

OH MY GOD SOMEONE THROUGH THAT POOR KITTEN IN A BOILING LAKE OF LAVA!!!!!!!

wait, those are pink frilly scarves, aren\'t they.


OH MY GOD SOMEONE THROUGH THAT POOR KTTEN IN A BOILING LAKE OF PINK GIRLY FABRICS!!!!!!!!!

 

[Duende]

Geez, I had to do a quick search of the internet to find anything about this. I found this entry in a \"Classics-L Listserv Archive Navigator: 1997\" which is just a list of emails form riddle lovers back and forth.

Anyways I copied this in the original letter:

\"Here\'s another one which a classical education would help:

To five and five and forty five
The first of letters add
Twill give a thing
That killed a king
And drove a wise man mad

... you should be able to name the king and wise man as well.

And this was given as the answer:

\"And just in case anyone was trying to figure out the other one I had
presented (to five and five and 45, the first of letters add ...), the
answer is LAVA (5+5+45=55 ... in Roman numerals LV, adding the letter a
twice) which is the thing that killed Pyrrhus (supposedly a \'lava\' roof
tile; where they got this, I have no idea) and drove Empedocles mad (when he
took the plunge into Etna).\"

Whew.

 

[dougaderly]

Duende, I don\'t know how you found that.

I thought MY search-foo was good. Damn...

What terms did you use to find it?

 

[generulpoleaxe]

FISH

 

[hakoMike]

Originally posted by generulpoleaxe
FISH

Someone say Fish?

 

[Duende]

Originally posted by dougaderly
What terms did you use to find it?

I did a Yahoo search for \"five and five and forty-five\" using the quotemarks as well, so it would search for that phrase rather than the individual words.

Wow! My brain actually works sometimes!!

 

[dougaderly]

huh. wonder if it was the hyphen that got me. Or using google rather than yahoo. I\'ve checked so many combinations of wording it\'s ridiculous. But thanks, you just answered a question I\'ve been trying to figure out for waaaay too long.....

 

[lono]

But what does he have in his pocketses precious?

 

[noneedforaname]

wasn\'t pyrhus the greek guy who lead the untimately futile invasion of roman italy resulting in the phrase \"pyrhic victory\"?

that any help?