First paint job in about 15 years.
Strip and start again or is it salvageable?
View attachment 46695
Strip and start again or is it salvageable?
View attachment 46695
Salvageable or start over?
- Thread starter jjgt
- Start date
ten ball
Active member
Paint looks a little thick to me so thin your layers down next time. The edge highlight colours are to harsh, use more steps of the base blue. Practice your brush control on the edge highlights getting them more sharp & crisp (this will take time)
imo slow the whole process down a little
imo slow the whole process down a little
Sicks
Active member
Agree with 10ball, but it's a good job for such a long break, you've managed to do the eyes and the writing on his leg scroll looks good too. Tenball covered the main suggestions but I would also add investing in a model drill for things like gun barrels, I've got the army painter one which was about £10 on Amazon and serves me well. Other than that, lots and lots of practice
Zab
New member
Agree we Maxxxx, nice mini. Room for improvement but i havent seen a mini yet that is perfect
I don't know there is this guy ten-something who is doing this awesome group of chaos minis. they are pretty close to perfect. you should check him out
Josh The Stampede
New member
More generally, unless you can literally see the thickness of the paint in details gunking it up, you almost never need to strip stuff - you can just prime over it and start over. But that mini looks fine to me, especially as a first mini in 15 years. Hanging out around here it's easy to forget that that mini is better than like 90% of players' tabletop standard.
Thank you all for the very constructive feedback. I have a few questions:
1. I am not using citadel paints. I am using (for the most part) Jo Sonja paints. That aside, I do thin the paints with water and end up applying several coats. I find that thinning with water however leaves quite mixed results, blotchyness etc. (I am also using a wet pallet, with baking paper) How much water is enough? Does anyone prefer using medium instead of water (or a combination of both?). What medium is preferred?
2. Brushes, I am using some synthetic brushes which I am sure are not as good as they could be. Any brush recommendations and preferred sizes would be appreciated.
3. washes, i've been heavily watering down a dark earth brown in order to wash the gold and the cloth, with pretty mixed results. Read about adding a touch of dish soap, any experience with this?
4. I basecoated with a black gesso (watered down) was pretty happy with it to be honest, but perhaps it's a little thicker and rougher than the citadel spray from 15 years back. Does anyone have experience using gesso, how much can it be watered down? is there a better product, bearing in mind I like the idea of not being reliant on a spray can. I don't have a spray gun either.
I feel that the details are beginning to become slightly obscured.
Many thanks
1. I am not using citadel paints. I am using (for the most part) Jo Sonja paints. That aside, I do thin the paints with water and end up applying several coats. I find that thinning with water however leaves quite mixed results, blotchyness etc. (I am also using a wet pallet, with baking paper) How much water is enough? Does anyone prefer using medium instead of water (or a combination of both?). What medium is preferred?
2. Brushes, I am using some synthetic brushes which I am sure are not as good as they could be. Any brush recommendations and preferred sizes would be appreciated.
3. washes, i've been heavily watering down a dark earth brown in order to wash the gold and the cloth, with pretty mixed results. Read about adding a touch of dish soap, any experience with this?
4. I basecoated with a black gesso (watered down) was pretty happy with it to be honest, but perhaps it's a little thicker and rougher than the citadel spray from 15 years back. Does anyone have experience using gesso, how much can it be watered down? is there a better product, bearing in mind I like the idea of not being reliant on a spray can. I don't have a spray gun either.
I feel that the details are beginning to become slightly obscured.
Many thanks
Sicks
Active member
1. I prefer medium or a mix of medium and water, I've only tried the gw lahmian medium which works fine but I'm sure other companies make some just dprimer.
2.This kind of depends on how much you're willing to invest, I started out with gw ones which were ok, but I found they didn't last long (partly because of my lack of decent brush care no doubt) I've also used army painter ones which I also found decent enough, these ones are on the cheaper end of the spectrum though, I found them fine for learning with and I still use them on models that I'm doing to a tabletop standard (don't want the wear and tear of 70+ gaming models on my nicer brushes) after asking around here I got a Windsor & Newton series 7 which I like alot and I will be getting more in the future, I also see people mention rosemary & co brushes but have not tried them myself. For sizing a size 1 would be a general use brush for base coating and such, a 0 for details and 00 for superfine detailing, however I find the point on my size 0 is good enough for finer details too, but perhaps someone who does more freehand can help more
3. No idea on this one sorry, never tried it
4. I haven't tried gesso, for brush on primer I find gw imperial primer works fine, however ive not had the best luck with the pots, when I get a good pot it works wonderfully, leaves a nice matte finish to paint on and always seems to dry smooth without flooding details, however I often end up with pots that have turned to black sludge and is useless as a primer, however this is mostly because the store here that sells gw stuff is a large department store and much of their gw stuff gets left on the shelves for a long time, whenever I buy it online from proper model shop it has been fine. Again other companies provide similar options but I can only comment on what I've used myself
2.This kind of depends on how much you're willing to invest, I started out with gw ones which were ok, but I found they didn't last long (partly because of my lack of decent brush care no doubt) I've also used army painter ones which I also found decent enough, these ones are on the cheaper end of the spectrum though, I found them fine for learning with and I still use them on models that I'm doing to a tabletop standard (don't want the wear and tear of 70+ gaming models on my nicer brushes) after asking around here I got a Windsor & Newton series 7 which I like alot and I will be getting more in the future, I also see people mention rosemary & co brushes but have not tried them myself. For sizing a size 1 would be a general use brush for base coating and such, a 0 for details and 00 for superfine detailing, however I find the point on my size 0 is good enough for finer details too, but perhaps someone who does more freehand can help more
3. No idea on this one sorry, never tried it
4. I haven't tried gesso, for brush on primer I find gw imperial primer works fine, however ive not had the best luck with the pots, when I get a good pot it works wonderfully, leaves a nice matte finish to paint on and always seems to dry smooth without flooding details, however I often end up with pots that have turned to black sludge and is useless as a primer, however this is mostly because the store here that sells gw stuff is a large department store and much of their gw stuff gets left on the shelves for a long time, whenever I buy it online from proper model shop it has been fine. Again other companies provide similar options but I can only comment on what I've used myself
MAXXxxx
Well-known member
1. I prefer water only. sometimes I use Vallejo glaze medium, but very very rarely. Water... well for basecoats I use about 1:1 or even just a hint of water. If after stirring the path the brush made vanishes it's good enough for me. For glazes and such I go about 1:3-1:6, but it depends on the paint too.
2. Rosemary 33 or WnN7 normal or Raphaell 8404, size 0 or 1 or 2 (doesn't really matter, I usually stick with the 0, but for these they are good enough to paint eyes with a 1 or 2 too)
3. do not use dish soap, rather a bit of PVA. About 1 paint : 1 pva : 10 water is a good mix for a wash. the pva contracts the paint a bit, which helps settling in the recesses.
plan b: don't use washes ever again
4. no exp with gesso. but VallejoAir primer brushed on is good imho.
obscured details: not yet on the picture.
2. Rosemary 33 or WnN7 normal or Raphaell 8404, size 0 or 1 or 2 (doesn't really matter, I usually stick with the 0, but for these they are good enough to paint eyes with a 1 or 2 too)
3. do not use dish soap, rather a bit of PVA. About 1 paint : 1 pva : 10 water is a good mix for a wash. the pva contracts the paint a bit, which helps settling in the recesses.
plan b: don't use washes ever again
4. no exp with gesso. but VallejoAir primer brushed on is good imho.
obscured details: not yet on the picture.
Josh The Stampede
New member
1. Mostly just water, though if I am glazing I will use Lahmian Medium and if for some reason my paint is drying too fast (due to the weather or a particular brand/color drying) I'll use some drying retarder mixed with water/flowaid.How much is enough is a hard question...add water until it feels right, basically.
2. Windsor & Newton Series 7 size 0 and 1, Raphael 8404 size 0 and 3/0 - those four brushes are like 99 percent of what I use.
3. Dish soap, PVA (hadn't heard that one, would freak me out putting glue in my paint), artist's flow-aid, future floor wax - they all serve the same purpose, which is to break the surface tension of the paint/wash so it flows into cracks instead of beading or sitting in a bubble on the surface.
4. I personally can't stand the texture of painting on gesso. Reaper makes a brush-on primer in both black and white which works decently well. Apart from that, the best advice is to get an airbrush - its the 2nd best purchase I made on the hobby (after good brushes).
2. Windsor & Newton Series 7 size 0 and 1, Raphael 8404 size 0 and 3/0 - those four brushes are like 99 percent of what I use.
3. Dish soap, PVA (hadn't heard that one, would freak me out putting glue in my paint), artist's flow-aid, future floor wax - they all serve the same purpose, which is to break the surface tension of the paint/wash so it flows into cracks instead of beading or sitting in a bubble on the surface.
4. I personally can't stand the texture of painting on gesso. Reaper makes a brush-on primer in both black and white which works decently well. Apart from that, the best advice is to get an airbrush - its the 2nd best purchase I made on the hobby (after good brushes).
BloodASmedium
[img]http://pnp
Water ,drying retardant,flow improver it all works great the things is we could talk ratios but they always differ in regards to what your trying to achieve ,my advice is to either keep a log book after what works has been unveiled but besides that you just need good ol fashioned practice and that will give you a feel each and every time you choose each type of medium...keep at it aside from the obvious the mini is cleanly painted and the details and brush control look dead on. As for blending,2brush blending,juicing,layering ide say use them all and see what you like best for the tools you've have bud....you'll be ok you'll see!
Thank you all for your guidance, really appreciated.
Have started over and will keep you informed of progress. My aim is to keep the paints as thin as possible using medium/water combination, and improve on the brush stroke work. Believe i've been rushing the strokes and not letting the brush work for me. As this is currently my only model, I want it to be as good as i'm capable of making it.
As an aside, Dettol for removal of acrylic from plastic works amazingly well! So well that I will now also consider buying second hand regardless of paint coverage.
Have started over and will keep you informed of progress. My aim is to keep the paints as thin as possible using medium/water combination, and improve on the brush stroke work. Believe i've been rushing the strokes and not letting the brush work for me. As this is currently my only model, I want it to be as good as i'm capable of making it.
As an aside, Dettol for removal of acrylic from plastic works amazingly well! So well that I will now also consider buying second hand regardless of paint coverage.
Splurch
New member
If you're after mini's to practice on, buying mini's on ebay that are already painted, stripping them and then painting them yourself is a great way to get mini's inexpensively as people tend to quit the hobby and put up their partially painted stuff. This works especially well when they are metal, since you can use harsher solvents to pull off the paint. Sometimes you can't strip a mini 100%, but after priming/painting it yourself it generally isn't noticeable.
BloodFather of Kharnath
Active member
Watered down gesso works just fine as a primer. I wouldn't prefer it to auto primer but it's not bad at all.
You may not be too thick with the paint, it may be an issue of you overworking the paint.
You may not be too thick with the paint, it may be an issue of you overworking the paint.
ced1106
New member
Send all your salvageable mini's to me and I'll see what I can do.
I'm sure from a slightly further view this mini looks great. At best, I'd do some controlled washes (pin washes) to fiddle with the model, but I'd rather have you paint up a new one than redo this one. I have some new mini's you can practice on.
I'm sure from a slightly further view this mini looks great. At best, I'd do some controlled washes (pin washes) to fiddle with the model, but I'd rather have you paint up a new one than redo this one. I have some new mini's you can practice on.
Thank you all again for your valuable comments feedback. In the process of acquiring some new brushes.
I have applied several thin basecoats of blue and red to armour. Subsequently, I attempted to apply a dark blue wash over the blue armour. This has failed, leaving all sorts of white residue over the miniature. I am hoping if I explain what I did, someone might be able to tell me what went wrong, I suspect dodgy water:
1. mixed brown earth with ultramarines blue, added several drops medium, added a few drops water, mixed well.
2. Once a runny milky (almost ink like) consistency achieved, applied to model focusing on recesses, not washing entire model. Wash was applied liberally (in recesses), and left to dry.
3. wash dried basically white, not dissimilar to the photos in the following post: http://privateerpressforums.com/sho...Frosting-quot-on-minis-after-using-GW-washes-!
As mentioned my suspicion is the water may have caused the white marks? Will removing water and substituting with more medium solve this problem? I am not going to strip the model again as the layers are thankfully very thin, so no permanent harm done, however would like to avoid getting white marks again in future.
Thanks again!
I have applied several thin basecoats of blue and red to armour. Subsequently, I attempted to apply a dark blue wash over the blue armour. This has failed, leaving all sorts of white residue over the miniature. I am hoping if I explain what I did, someone might be able to tell me what went wrong, I suspect dodgy water:
1. mixed brown earth with ultramarines blue, added several drops medium, added a few drops water, mixed well.
2. Once a runny milky (almost ink like) consistency achieved, applied to model focusing on recesses, not washing entire model. Wash was applied liberally (in recesses), and left to dry.
3. wash dried basically white, not dissimilar to the photos in the following post: http://privateerpressforums.com/sho...Frosting-quot-on-minis-after-using-GW-washes-!
As mentioned my suspicion is the water may have caused the white marks? Will removing water and substituting with more medium solve this problem? I am not going to strip the model again as the layers are thankfully very thin, so no permanent harm done, however would like to avoid getting white marks again in future.
Thanks again!
Send all your salvageable mini's to me and I'll see what I can do.
I'm sure from a slightly further view this mini looks great. At best, I'd do some controlled washes (pin washes) to fiddle with the model, but I'd rather have you paint up a new one than redo this one. I have some new mini's you can practice on.
Ced1106 - i'd be happy to practice on your minis. Postage to Australia might be the only deterrent.
Sicks
Active member
I haven't experienced this personally but the water sounds a likely culprit, I know some people only use mineral water for painting but I've never had a problem with tap water, but tap water can vary based on location, you can try using just medium and see if that helps? If it does maybe invest in some mineral water for painting with or stick with just using medium instead
