Save the Toadstools

[LavronYor]

Zaphod is thinking of stopping the Golden Toadstools unless more interest is generated, so please add your name and support and hopefully entries.

Everyone who entered Chicago Games Day can enter for August if your entry was finished after July 25. And who didn\'t tweak a little before the show? Look at last years winners post GamesDay. And for you people who made first cut, now is your chance to get some critiques.

So get over to

http://www.electricocean.com/gt/GT049

click on the Read the Rules, Know the rules and join up.

For those of us in the know, leave some comments here.

 

[Ebonbuddha]

Hmmmmmm...Maybe. I don\'t think it would be good to go up against a GD winner though.

 

[LavronYor]

It\'s not just about winning, and if the winner does a short writeup, then you can see how they did it.

 

[Ebonbuddha]

I see what you are saying. But no one likes losing.

 

[Wren]

I\'d like to add my voice to Lavron\'s in support of the Golden Toadstools. For those not familiar with this one, the GTs are a bit different than many other contests. The contest is associated with the Yahoo Group MasterClass Painter. A painter can submit one entry per month, which must include a write-up outlining something pertinent to the painting process (a particular technique you tried, or colour mixes or what have you). It doesn\'t matter if the mini was entered to another contest, displayed elsewhere or anything like that, only that it was painted in the specified time period. After submission there is a period of about a week for people to view and comment on the minis and vote on their top choices.

If you tried the GTs a while back, you might want to try them again. The move to Electric Ocean galleries allows much larger and more detailed photos than Yahoo did, and also allows for both painters\' remarks and comments on minis to be displayed with the mini itself. Voting has also changed - you can now vote on three minis, which gives an opportunity to recognize leaps in skill or cool ideas that may not have been flawlessly executed.

So whether or not you\'re a demon winner, there are plenty of reasons to enter. The main point of the GTs is painter growth and support. If you\'re finding your stuff doesn\'t get a lot of comment elsewhere, try entering it in a GT. Even if you don\'t have something to enter in a given month, you can learn something reading through the write-ups and comments on the entries. There is also a Fungal Growth award, which recognizes one painter per month who has made significant forward strides in their painting level and technique. There are no prizes, and even if you might not be in a position to win in a given month, you can still strive to get more votes than you did the month before and so on. A lot of us work more consistently if we\'re working to a deadline for a contest, and the GTs are a great tool for that.

 

[frenchkid]

In my opinion this is a great contest, and the lack of participation is most probably do to i\'s lack of visibility. Maybe some monthly news on CMON reminding people of the contest would be nice. I\'ll go drop a note on creafigs too.
seriously hope that this contest dosn\'t sink. Cheers.

 

[Rodnik]

I\'ve always enjoyed the contest and felt it was a great way to share your work/ideas and such.

Sadly, I haven\'t been able to participate due to working full time/college/etc----I barely have time to paint my 1 or 2 GD entries. The remainder of my painting time has been spent promoting the hobby locally--whether it be contest judging/teaching/etc. If the contest lives through my \"slow\" time, I\'ll definately be participating again.

I think the decline is due to a combination of things, most of which can probably be remedied.

The contest is not really promoted to any degree. Most of us just kinda \"know about it\", and have the link on our favorites.

It\'s kind of an empty win, considering the only thing a person gets are the \"bragging rights\'

Some perceived minor slow-down in the hobby.

At it\'s peak, the contest had some sponsorhip, along with a trinket to symbolize the win.

Also, the \"noone likes to lose\" mentality comes into play here as well. There was a point that we saw the same folks win over and over and over again-----not saying they didn\'t deserve the wins, but this will take the wind out of the sails of some less-fortunate competitors.

I feel like we could easily turn it around if we were to promote a bit, provide for an award of some sort, and perhaps consider mixing it up a bit by providing some thematic element/limitations to the contest.

For example---on 25mm singles for this month, 54mm singles for next month, mounted figures for month x....

Perhaps go as far as to say \"no freehand\" or \"as much freehand as you want\"...or follow the same path with conversion work....

Nothing to limiting, but just try to level the playing field a bit more.

Another thing that might be done is instead of having the overall once per year, have it twice per year......


To put my money where my mouth is----
I know that DarkVine would be willing to consider some level of sponsorship for the contest-----

Kev


[Edited on 8-1-2006 by Rodnik]

[Edited on 8-1-2006 by Rodnik]

[Edited on 8-1-2006 by Rodnik]

 

[Ebonbuddha]

Could work. But I won\'t hold my breath.

 

[EricJ]

yeah, it is a great contest, both because of the friendliness and feeback of those involved. A lot of really great work shows up in them as well. It really isn\'t about winning or losing, but the act of competing itself seems to strengthen every painter that participates.

I took part in quite a few of these last year, and had good luck, I regret I haven\'t had much to enter this year for it. Perhaps I\'ll get the painting bug back and actually start producing finished figures at some point again

 

[vincegamer]

As someone who has never participated and is barely aware of it, I think the name puts off new entrants. Not GT; nothing wrong with that. Rather, \"Master Class.\" I\'m not a master class painter so why would I want to put my stuff up next to a bunch of master class work? Sounds very humbling if not humiliating.

 

[Modderrhu]

Exactly, vince. The impression that I have of the GT is that it\'s a Master Class Only affair. No room in it for my inferior goodies.

 

[LavronYor]

Hey, I put my inferior goodies in it all the time, and I try to comment every month.
I am of the opinion that if you have had a 7 or higher here, you shouln\'t be embarassed to enter. I also try to only use constructive criticism even when it is one of the big dogs. I have never had Fredy tell me I am not qualified to judge his entries. After all, it is master class (not the slayer club). I think the military painters have a better idea with awarding golds to all the models that deserve gold not just the top one.

And that might mean more here.


I just don\'t want it to go the way of the Chick Challenge.

 

[Ritual]

Well, the chick challenge ended due to the work load, not lack of entries, AFAIK.

 

[LavronYor]

Gone, but not forgotten.
Thankfully, Nathan started the Femme Fatale round of his contest.

I just like the monthly idea, as I at least paint 12 models a year that way

 

[Wren]

I can see what people are saying about the title \'master class\', but I don\'t think that\'s the way it\'s intended. I think the name came about to distinguish it from the general painting Yahoo group, mini-painter. (And possibly the group mini-painting, which is intended for beginner to intermediate level painters.) The idea is that mini-painter is where you go to ask how do you start layering and what\'s NMM and what do you think of my army colours. Master class is meant for people who have the fundamental terms and techniques down and are looking to improve and try advanced techniques on single figures or high level squads. Back before there were so many mini forums there was a lot more traffic on both those Yahoo groups, so a desire to have the intermediate/advanced discussion at another location made a lot of sense.

It\'s not so much that you have to already _be_ master class to participate in the group and the GTs as that you should have enough knowledge and experience that you are starting to _try_ for something more advanced. Never to my recollection have I seen anyone dismissing or demeaning painters or entries that aren\'t show-stoppers. Very occasionally the group gets people asking basic questions and those folks are politely redirected to mini-painter.

 

[vincegamer]

I\'m not impressed by what the intent was - though why not call it intermediate or advanced painting if that\'s the intent? - I\'m more concerned with the effect.
All I\'m saying is the effect of calling it a master class painting competition (and of course of the level of a typical winner) is to discourage people who aren\'t at that level. The word \"master\" carries a hell of a lot of weight.

 

[LavronYor]

I don\'t know, the guys at Slaves to Paint seem like masters to me. And Vince we are not saying that you have to join, but you would be welcomed.

 

[vincegamer]

You asked to save the GTs.
My suggestion is if you want to attract entrants, get rid of the term Master Class. Sounds like the competition for GD winners who are looking for something more challenging.

p.s. I don\'t know what Slaves to Paint is.

 

[Wren]

Originally posted by Rodnik
The contest is not really promoted to any degree. Most of us just kinda \"know about it\", and have the link on our favorites.

Based on this discussion, it looks like you\'re very right about that! I don\'t think there\'s enough discussion of the GTs and Masterclass off of the group itself for people to have a good understanding of the function of either.

Originally posted by Rodnik
Some perceived minor slow-down in the hobby.

I think this is a factor. I\'ve seen complaints about things being slow on a few different forums and groups that I frequent. Summer\'s probably a big factor there, with a lot of people out doing instead of in painting. I think the Yahoo Groups side of the hobby is having a pretty major slow-down, though. There\'s been a couple of groups out-right die, and the others seem to have had a serious decrease in discussion. I\'m not sure if there\'s a solution to that... Maybe people find the forum format easier to work with (it\'s certainly easier to search and reference), and switching Masterclass to a web-based forum would help.

Originally posted by Rodnik
I feel like we could easily turn it around if we were to promote a bit, provide for an award of some sort,

It\'d be fun to have an award back, but I\'m not sure the GTs would retain their value if they became a contest with prizes of any monetary value. That raises the spectre of people padding votes or lobbying friends or all kinds of other stuff in an attempt to get goodies. The big prize contests handle that by making entries anonymous and requiring registered voters (and even there Nathan at Wyrd Games combs through for vote padding), or holding a judged contest. Either approach would lose the painters sharing knowledge with each other aspect that I consider a hallmark of the GTs.

Originally posted by Rodnik
and perhaps consider mixing it up a bit by providing some thematic element/limitations to the contest.
For example---on 25mm singles for this month, 54mm singles for next month, mounted figures for month x....

This would probably decrease rather than increase my participation. I\'m a slow painter - I\'ve only been able to enter as many GTs as I have because of how open they are, so regardless of whether what I\'m working on is for another contest, a gift, a commission, whatever, I can enter it if I finish in the appropriate time frame.

Also, they tried something similiar on the mini-painting Yahoo Group, which holds a weekly contest for mini of the week and which has had even worse problems with apathy and entries. The themed contests were tried as an addition to the mini of the week. While a lot of people said they were very interested in contests focusing on specific themes or techniques, when it got down to entering, not many did, more entered the MotW more open contest.

Originally posted by Rodnik
Another thing that might be done is instead of having the overall once per year, have it twice per year......

This is an interesting idea. With the speed of advances in the hobby and the rate at which people drop in and out, that might keep the momentum and interest up a little more.

 

[EricJ]

A couple thoughts here. I agree theme isn\'t a great idea, one of the best parts of this contest is that you can enter whatever you\'re working on that month and don\'t have to worry about whether it will fit or not.

I go think some sort of little reward would be nice. I don\'t think monitary is the solution, however it probably wouldn\'t be that hard to get a limited run mini sculpted as some sort of a trophy, something nice that won\'t be available unless you win. With the skill involved with those who enter the contest, I would bet someone with sculpting skills could be persuaded to donate some of their time. (I wish I could sculpt or I would!)

I know for sure at least when I managed to win the award for best of the year for 2005, I wasn\'t looking for $$\'s or free product, but a little toadstool trophy would have been a fun way to remember it!