school shootings

[Modderrhu]

Originally posted by steelcult
But hey, a guy walking into an office with a sawed off shotgun killing 7 people makes the news, while the same guy walking in and bludgeoning 7 people to death with a Louisville Slugger might make the news, but doesnt have the same ring, does it?

Interesting point.

I suppose that running into a room filled with people, and pumping them full of lead might be more similar to a scene out of Doom. Whereas, Taking applying a baseball bat to their crania is far more up-close and personal. Distance weapons detach the perpetrator and the victim, meleé-style is more passionate. So, why do guns get all the \'glory\'? Should be the other way around, somehow.

Curious question for you, spazzy: would your men yet hunt if the kill started with slitting a throat, instead of a bullet and then to end with the cut, when death is already inevitable?

 

[Avicenna]

Lloyd\'s statistics might have answered my question, but as an aside, when people look at rates for things like the number of gun crimes etc, do they use a figure per head of population (per capita?) or do they give purely the number of deaths?

Or does it change depending on the point that people want to get across?

 

[Sand Rat]

Pete - Actually you can find all the numbers - and I got mine from the total number of reported crime statistics.

 

[airhead]

I consider it much more humane to hunt and eat a game animal than a cow. A deer or elk has a chance of not being harvested this year or ever if he is smart. The cow has no chance what-so-ever.

 

[airhead]

Originally posted by Avicenna
Or does it change depending on the point that people want to get across?

Most definitely - and they also cherry pick the years or other time periods they want to report. Both sides. And they also fail to take into account any other outside factors depending on the outcome they want.

I saw some interesting studies done on crime rates based on the courts. As the courts were more lenient on crimes, crime rates went up. Conversely, as the courts were more strict (Florida\'s law that 80% of time must be served for example) caused crime rates to go down.

Honestly, that is not the only factor. Unemployment rates, the economy as a whole, education, opportunities and many other things affect the crime rates.

As to how to stop a nut from waltzing into a school and slaughtering children, I am not really sure we can unless we turn the schools into a prison and put them into bullet-resistant buses at the end of the day.

This last sick coward shot a bunch of Amish girls in a small schoolhouse. He knew they would put up very little resistance (if any). He really expected to have more time to do much more despicable things to them for some perceived wrong in his childhood. Had he not had a pistol, would he have done this with a machete? I don\'t know, nor does anyone else.

@Dr. E, several countries other than Japan have banned guns. Currently, they are banned in the UK where gun crime is on the rise. Australia recently banned several classes of guns (I am not sure, but I do not believe it was a complete ban?). Canada has almost completely banned pistols.

@Petey, you have called me stupid twice now. Please back that statement up with some facts or at least an interesting argument. I have been called lots of things other than that and some of them deservedly.

I\'ve grown up around guns. Hunted since I was 5. Still do, just not as often as I\'d like. Nobody in my family ever \'went off\' and shot up anything or anyone. When I was in high school, I DID have a gun rack in my pickup truck and a shotgun & rifle hung in there all the time. Practiced or went hunting nearly every day. The only things I\'ve every hunted without eating was the rats at the dump and the crows in my Uncle\'s field and the rare skunk that got too close to the house or chicken coop.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by airhead
@Petey, you have called me stupid twice now. Please back that statement up with some facts or at least an interesting argument. I have been called lots of things other than that and some of them deservedly.

That is not true. He called you an idiot twice.

I too have been around guns all my life. My father has plenty of them, but also has a massive gun safe in which to keep them. I choose not to have any guns, not for political leanings, but because I am a cheap bastard.

 

[airhead]

Originally posted by petey
Americans that think carrying guns is good are idiots. There I said it.

You\'re right. I stand corrected.

 

[Avelorn]

@Steelcult: The root cause to what? I don\'t think anyone has said that guns make you criminal. The number of homicides done by guns are about 65.2% with one victim and about 73.5% with multiple victims. There is also a huge difference in gun-related homicides depending on age. Younger victims are more likely to be killed by guns. Which highlights the fact that youth arguments and gangrelated crime would have a significantly less percentage of homicides if there was less guns available(statistics from d.o.j.)

I don\'t know what impression you get from media.. but note that the homicide rates in US (per capita) are going down and are as low as in the 60\'s now. The number of policeofficers killed in the line of duty is also going down etc. There are positive trends! Hopefully this will continue and people will feel less scared.

Speaking about this specific incident with the Amish girls. I think guns made little or no difference. This was a terrible act done by a disturbed man and he would have done it whether there were guns around or not. There are other much more relevant factors to discuss if we want to cope with these kinds of things. But you can\'t help loosing a bit of hope reading about it.

Sven

 

[Avicenna]

Originally posted by steelcult
Pete - Actually you can find all the numbers - and I got mine from the total number of reported crime statistics.

I hope you dont think I meant you with the \'does it change depending on their viewpoint\' thing! I was talking more about the press or governments.

I think I would own a gun if i was in the states to be honest (on top of Tooshy\'s E-snipe 5000). People are concerned about people hunting land animals for food, but how is it different to catching a fish to eat?

 

[beowulfthehunter]

Forget gun control, heck don\'t worry about security in schools I say we put a ban on Free Will! If we turn our populice into brain washed zombies we will not have this problem.

 

[Avicenna]

I am sensing a misplaced use of irony...

 

[Wren]

Originally posted by MarkusTay
lol
Americans are more violent? Did we breed for violence somehow? Was it a secret Gov\'t conspiracy, to make us more acceptable to war?

My college history professor relayed an interesting theory related to the possible causes for the different national characters of the US and Canada, which are on the same landmass, were founded in roughly the same time period, and with influences from many of the same European nations.

The theory is that the US was founded by people who chose to leave their homes or were pushed out - people who wanted more space, or to discover new places, or the freedom to practice religions or politics considered fringe where they were from - type A trail blazer types and rebels.

Conversely, the initial crop of Canadians were company men, people hired by the European nations to map out the land, catch or trade for fur pelts, start communities mainly for the purpose of laying claim to land ownership or trading with the natives and so on. So more type B, law abiding, live and let live sorts.

Both countries have had large influxes of immigrants from other places throughout the years, but I\'ve always thought it\'s a pretty intriguing theory that different founding population personalities might have affected choices of political systems and laws and influenced national character even to this day.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by Avicenna
People are concerned about people hunting land animals for food, but how is it different to catching a fish to eat?

There is no difference at all!!

In America we hunt our fish with fully automatic uzi\'s. Unless we are going after big fish, then we use a .50 cal.

Remember hooks don\'t catch fish, people catch fish.???

 

[airhead]

You use the .50 AE or go all out and use the .50 BMG?

 

[Modderrhu]

Surely you mean the BFG .50? I hear that thing makes grown men cry.

 

[airhead]

0.50 Belt fed Machine Gun from the old M2 Machine Gun.

It is the one on the left.

The Barret kicks like a good shotgun load. Take the brake off the muzzel and it will detatch your retinas from your eyeballs - there is a range memorandum out on it.

 

[petey]

I don\'t mind if you keep your gun to shoot animals Airhead/spazzy, owning a gun to do that is completely justifiable. I\'d think that was a bit obvious... I said \"Americans\", i.e. not specific at all and at least two American individuals here took it as a personal insult. Calm down a bit.

 

[supervike]

I am perfectly calm.

In fact, I rarely get worked up about anything.

You are as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. In fact, its good to have a dissenting opinions, it is what makes these discussions enjoyable to be a part of.

However, so far, your complete contribution has been to call people names (specific or no) and then to tell people to calm down about it. Feel free to share your opinions, I believe Airhead was just asking you to back up your thoughts.

I didn\'t take it as a personal insult at all BTW.

 

[airhead]

Petey, as Vike said, you have not contributed to your side of the debate other than to imply that I am an idiot because I am an American and I think carrying guns is a good idea - twice. You have not upset me; I am just trying to understand your argument.

Are people from other countries that think carrying guns is a good idea not idiots? Or is this idiocy only limited to Americans?

Conversely, are Americans that don\'t think carrying guns is a good idea somehow more intelligent?

Personally, I would rather have brought a gun to a knife fight than a knife to a gun fight.

 

[Modderrhu]

Originally posted by airhead
It is the one on the left.

I rest my case, airhead, that is one Big F\'ing Gun.