Scibor, why people be hating? :S

[LilBoyPip]

recently i have been browsing the submissions looking for ideas and i stubled upon Scibor's work, namely his Dark angles stuff.

what i don't understand is why people hate on it so much, yet it is still rated so highly, personally i think the work he does is beautiful, be it sculpted or pressed, it still looks great.

so why do you think people hate on Scibor's work, http://www.coolminiornot.com/167784?browseid=2176368

there is a link to one piece

 

[jcichon]

I just bought a few of his kits. I love them but I am not a gamer, I am a painter. I think his detail is great. Look at Hitechminiatures. I have a few of their kits and they are sweet

 

[LilBoyPip]

yeah i just took a look at the website for all Scibor's stuff, it looks really quite amazing, i don't get why people say such bad things about it, yes i understand people are entitled to their opinions, and Scibor's stuff might not be to everyone's tastes, but it is still technically excellent work how ever you look at it

 

[PegaZus]

I think a lot of it is with his technique, if you will, of sculpting. Many people see it as simple kit-bashing with green stuff, more manufacturing than art.

I'm really not on either side on this issue. So, three shrugs and a meh.

 

[FigureSculptor]

Many people see it as simple kit-bashing with green stuff, more manufacturing than art.

Having struggled with putty for a few years and being NOWHERE near Scibor's level, I think those are pretty unfair accusations. Much of his stuff might not be super original (but, let's face it, most miniatures today aren't) but they are extraordinarily well executed. It takes a lot of patience and practice to make such clean sculpts in putty and I doubt many of the people who level those accusations have actually tried to create a mini from scratch.

But as for ratings, well, you have to look at the big numbers. No matter how many people love something, some people will not, and some of those who don't will be loudmouths about it.

 

[QuietiManes]

If you re-position a leg and switch out a weapon arm, then try to sell it as an original sculpt, you tend to attract some negativity. Scibor might have some skill and ability with the putty but that's not really in question, I don't think.

Personally, think his work is pretty cool, not usually fitting my taste (little over the top) and a little pricey, but, there you go.

 

[FigureSculptor]

If you re-position a leg and switch out a weapon arm, then try to sell it as an original sculpt, you tend to attract some negativity.

Fair enough. Looking through his gallery quickly, I didn't see any obvious examples of that and I saw many examples of complete sculpts that were obviously not conversions.

But yeah, I can see how that would generate some negative feelings, especially from the maker of the original figure.

 

[freakinacage]

Having struggled with putty for a few years and being NOWHERE near Scibor's level, I think those are pretty unfair accusations.

I strongly disagree. The levels of sculpting that he displays in his 'not space marines' are low indeed. The plates and fiddly bits are simply press moulded and the designs are done in CAD (some some skill but not sculpting skillz). The piece pictured isn't too bad but most look like loads of press moulded rubbish just thrown together and from the pieces I have bought from him, they are rushed and badly finished (ie parts not aligned properly and gaps not filled before moulding). Oh, and his drapery is rubbish. The scores are high because the gw fanboyz love it, but others don't like his style or the fact that infringes on gw ip

It's a shame as he's a pretty good sculptor if you look at his site at the non sm stuff. I bought one of his minotaurs which was nicely sculpted - same issues as before regarding roughness though

 

[LilBoyPip]

wow people really are mixed about this.

how do you actually press mould things? as i ma working on a belial and a highly modified deathwing army (when i have the money) and i think the end results look great

 

[freakinacage]

I have no problem with some of the plates he uses, but ime he uses far to many to disguise a poorly converted mini underneath

Like I say, he uses CAD and machined moulds but you can do something similar this way:
http://sciborminiatures.com/en_,sculpting.php?id=571

 

[LilBoyPip]

to be honest, in my opinion, no matter what people say i still think his work and a lot better than a lot of other people's work who have also criticised it, which is a little unfair on him. but never the less there is also a lot of better "sculpts" out their.

thank you for that link by the way very interesting

 

[bildo]

i got his angel knight as it looks awesome, but on closer inspection when i delivered it, you could see where had just blobbed putty on and called it a hood, there were clear sculpting tool marked in the robes, the bitz sprue with the sword on was so trashed i had to replace it. some of the work was great though, like the face.

 

[FigureSculptor]

I strongly disagree. The levels of sculpting that he displays in his 'not space marines' are low indeed.

(snip)

It's a shame as he's a pretty good sculptor if you look at his site at the non sm stuff.

So, he's a "pretty good sculptor" but with "low levels" of sculpting skill? My brain's having a little trouble parsing that one to be quite honest. What else should a sculptor be judged on besides sculpting skills?

I get your point about infringing on GW's property. That's 100% valid criticism and a good reason to dislike or downvote his work. I was mostly looking at his fantasy figures because that's where my interest lies. I haven't bought a GW mini since the 1991 management buyout and generally don't have an interest in space mariney type stuff.

And, again, I'm not going to argue about the subjective; if you don't like the aesthetic of something, that's cool, it's just not necessarily something to crucify someone over. I've never liked GW space marines in general - always thought they were "too much" visually. Gaudy. But my usual response to something I don't like is to just not buy it, not to try and convince other people that my opinion is valid or to not buy those items themselves. The internet has shown me that not everyone has the same approach, however

But I do disagree with you on part of your argument. The use of press molds and texture stamps is a common practice by used pretty much all professional sculptors, especially when doing hard-edged sculpting like space marines or decorative plate armor. The use of CAD (or other computerized sculpting like ZBrush) hardly seems damning, either. Do people think there's a "space marine emblem" button you press and it does the work for you? It's just another tool that some sculptors use. Many other types of sculpting (toy, collectibles, product prototypes) have already moved or at least started to move toward digital sculpting. The computer makes the sculptor's life easier in some ways (undo!), but it doesn't get rid of the need for talent or skill.

It seems to me that a figure should be judged on how it looks, not on whether you approve of the processes the sculptor chose to use in its creation.

Maybe I'm talking crazy, but isn't it possible that his scores are high not because of "fan boys" but because most CMON users just don't really care about IP infringement (and yes, they should, but…), don't care about how minis are created, and just honestly like the pieces? It is possible for people to honestly and validly like things that you don't, no matter how much you don't like it or how strongly you feel about it. I don't mean to be antagonistic here. You've brought up valid criticisms, but the amount of hatred you seem to have seems a little much, unless I'm missing something.

 

[Einion]

recently i have been browsing the submissions looking for ideas and i stubled upon Scibor's work, namely his Dark angles stuff.

what i don't understand is why people hate on it so much, yet it is still rated so highly, personally i think the work he does is beautiful, be it sculpted or pressed, it still looks great.

Part of it will be resentment of his violation of IP (this would be particularly strong from any GW fanboy/fangirl) and some of it might be historical, from when he was outright stealing stuff from them by using press-moulds of some parts.

If you do a search you'll find some previous threads with more, there are at least two if I recall correctly.

Others don't know about this or don't care, and they'll be some of the ones giving him regular 8s, 9s and 10s.

Having struggled with putty for a few years and being NOWHERE near Scibor's level, I think those are pretty unfair accusations. Much of his stuff might not be super original (but, let's face it, most miniatures today aren't) but they are extraordinarily well executed.

The good bits are. The bits that aren't can be really very naive or crude, which jars greatly with the very clean areas that are done in a mass-production way.

Einion

 

[FigureSculptor]

from when he was outright stealing stuff from them by using press-moulds of some parts.

Okay, yeah, that deserves resentment. That clearly crosses a line.

 

[SkelettetS]

also got one of his minotaurs, all in all great but perhaps a bit rushed at places, sculpting tools visible at one place i remember. still, i think people treat scibor very poorly at this site. not a fan of the semi-space marines though.

isnt stuff like kingdom death "sculpted" in a computer and 3D printed? no one complain there...

 

[No Such Agency]

isnt stuff like kingdom death "sculpted" in a computer and 3D printed? no one complain there...

As are modern GW plastics. And the results can be amazing, to my and others' bafflement.

I have to say that much of Scibor's stuff seems overwrought and ludicrous looking to me... but that''s an aesthetic choice. I'm not a big fan of Space Marines past the early 90's in general, and IMO Scibor's customs dial all the worst aspects of the new look (excessive adornment, ridiculous proportions, clunky armor) up to eleven

The one mini of his I do have, a resin "not-servitor" carrying a big cylinder, ended up being a lot of fun to paint and customize... though I admit I did take the piss a little and call it a hot water repairman

 

[supervike]

I have to say that much of Scibor's stuff seems overwrought and ludicrous looking to me...

Pretty much my thoughts on it as well.

 

[freakinacage]

So, he's a "pretty good sculptor" but with "low levels" of sculpting skill? My brain's having a little trouble parsing that one to be quite honest. What else should a sculptor be judged on besides sculpting skills?

Not quite how I meant it. He CAN sculpt well, just often he doesn't. Like I say, every model of his that I have bought has been rushed and imo unfinished.

But I do disagree with you on part of your argument. The use of press molds and texture stamps is a common practice by used pretty much all professional sculptors, especially when doing hard-edged sculpting like space marines or decorative plate armor. The use of CAD (or other computerized sculpting like ZBrush) hardly seems damning, either. Do people think there's a "space marine emblem" button you press and it does the work for you? It's just another tool that some sculptors use. Many other types of sculpting (toy, collectibles, product prototypes) have already moved or at least started to move toward digital sculpting. The computer makes the sculptor's life easier in some ways (undo!), but it doesn't get rid of the need for talent or skill.
It seems to me that a figure should be judged on how it looks, not on whether you approve of the processes the sculptor chose to use in its creation.

While I totally agree with your point, mine, again is slightly off track. He could use anything to sculpt with as far as I care. As someone who dabbles in sculpting, I also use texture moulds a lot. the problem that most people (I include myself in this) is that he uses the plate armour ones with far too much. Obviously this is a personal taste thing, and as you mentioned, some love it. He's doing armour plates but not even gw just cram every nook and cranny with details, like it feels he does, for the sake of it

Maybe I'm talking crazy, but isn't it possible that his scores are high not because of "fan boys" but because most CMON users just don't really care about IP infringement (and yes, they should, but…), don't care about how minis are created, and just honestly like the pieces? It is possible for people to honestly and validly like things that you don't, no matter how much you don't like it or how strongly you feel about it. I don't mean to be antagonistic here. You've brought up valid criticisms, but the amount of hatred you seem to have seems a little much, unless I'm missing something.

I wouldn't say hatred, just annoyance, he does some potentially great stuff but he doesn't push himself and sits back in his safety zone. Can't blame him, he prolly makes a ton of cash from the press moulded sm conversions but it seems like a waste of talent. But I still stand by the fan boy comment. While not all who like his stuff sit in that category and it is a bit of a generalisation but gw and gw styled stuff score a +1 on every entry here. Look at the top last 7 days and the majority will be gw stuff. Don't get me wrong, there is more gw stuff out there, but I (and many others) have seen quality pieces, be they historical or simply from another manufacturer voted less highly. But hey, they like em and that's what the site is about

 

[dogfacedboy uk1]

"yes i understand people are entitled to their opinions, and Scibor's stuff might not be to everyone's tastes, but it is still technically excellent work how ever you look at it"


Lilboypip - You answered your own question right there. People have varied tastes, just because you think it is amazing does not mean everyone else does. Some of my own work is also very much love/hate. A few people have already mentioned the reasons why they do not like his space marine stuff - I will echo those sentiments - ie ripped off GW, and too much overkill with the press moulded armour plates and poor bolter design. Not technically excellent at all really. Once you have your original - press away. Its very simple. And his process is very much manufacturing on the space marines side of things. Nothing wrong with press moulding of course. Texture stamps and moulds for repetitive pieces are essential tools in the creation of many sculpts, they should not however make up 90% of the sculpting process. This is why the space knights cannot be regarded as technically excellent. Anatomy, attention to details and textures, pose, realism - all form part of sculpting. press moulded armour plates on top of a space marine is merely converting.

I personally love Scibors original works much more, some are humourous, some not all that original but good nonetheless. Despite some of his IP theft I don't think people should be too personal in their attacks, there will be some loss of respect towards him maybe, but no need for nastiness.

I look forward to seeing a greater quantity of original work from him rather than the tedious space knight stuff.

Hope that answers your question.

dfb