Shawn R. L.
New member
I haven\'t seen this one yet and was just curious if anyone has and what you thought.
Seen the new Tim Burton flick 9?
- Thread starter Shawn R. L.
- Start date
freakinacage
Well-known member
i want to see it, it looks good and i am going to ignore mordo!!
ScottRadom
Shogun of Saskatchewan
Coraline sucked.
I\'ll wait for Nine as they\'re too many other things I\'d rather see. I know it\'ll LOOK good, but \"from the director of WANTED\" does not make me want to rush out and get a ticket, large soda and nachos.
I\'ll wait for Nine as they\'re too many other things I\'d rather see. I know it\'ll LOOK good, but \"from the director of WANTED\" does not make me want to rush out and get a ticket, large soda and nachos.
ScottRadom
Shogun of Saskatchewan
Ah I see! Well that sounds better.
Avelorn
Sven Jonsson
Well, the producers can and often have an active part of the creative aspects of the movie as well while the role of the director vary between different films. Sometimes they only do the direction on set and have little influence on much else. Similarly the role of the cinematographer or art director vary much as well depending on the team and who is directing. The directors in fact often get far too much of the credit/blame whereas every film is a team effort. To add to it the financial aspects are very important for the creative aspects as well.. perhaps even more if the film has a smaller budget.
Avelorn
Sven Jonsson
Ehrm. you cannot prove your theory with examples as you cannot prove things with induction.
All in all I think it depends on who\'s initiating the project and how it is conceived. The producer follows the film from idea to final product and can give creative input into all the phases of the production if needed. From my own experience the producer generally gives input in the beginning phases like the writing, locations and storyboard etc. while on set he or she leaves the creative work to the director and works as a \"problem solver\". Then once the editing begins the producer again starts having more input. To say that the producer \"often has no bearing whatsoever on what the film is like in terms of quality\" is not something I recognise to be true. I mean the films I\'ve worked with still are director driven independent short films but still on several productions the producers and even financiers have had input not the least into the script work, editing, length, cutting scenes etc. Not that the \"creative genius\" that is the director would admit that much.
In commercial \"blockbuster\" films the producer can in fact (like in the old days) be very much be the creative leader of the production (Bruckheimer). It is also not uncommon for example that someone writes the story (or adapt for screen-play), produces but do not direct the film. Some even, like in the case of Adam Sandler or Steven Seagal, play the main character, produce, sometimes write, but still do not direct. But of course there are other examples for the reverse. Woody Allen never produces his films IIRC but writes, directs and plays the main character. It depends on the people involved to sum it up. And strong director or \"creator\" will often both write, produce and direct the film.
You might be referring to the Executive Producers though that are notoriously difficult to nail down what part they have had in the production, sometimes they are mere financiers and sometimes they have had creative input.
I can\'t back this up with statistics of course but I would argue that the producer more often than not have some kind of bearing on the quality of the film.
In this case you can read about it from Shane Ackers point of view:
9 Director Shane Acker Talks Stitchpunks, Tim Burton
Would you argue from Ackers words that the producers Timor Bekmambetov and Tim Burton had no bearing upon the quality of the film? And still this project seem very much be the brain-child of Acker.
Shawn R. L.
New member
I don\'t know about all the producer/director/creator stuff.................but does the new movie have the Tim Burton FEEL?
Einion
New member
It wouldn\'t be induction; it\'s simple evidentiary support of a claim. Using proof of a limited claim in support of a wider claim would be induction I think.
Oh and warn me in future if we\'re going to switch suddenly to the rules of formal debate!
Doesn\'t matter - I said often, not never
I\'m glad you mentioned Bruckheimer, since his involvement is not a guarantee of quality and that supports my premise
Einion
ScottRadom
Shogun of Saskatchewan
I think you\'re out to lunch on this one Einion. I usually agree with you, but a Producer is a very real part of the team that builds the movie. Even if they aren\'t hands on watching everything on the set or bullying int he editing room a producer does leave his mark. Even if it\'s just getting the team under him do do there best work he\'s still there trying to do his job.
\'course that\'s a good producer. If you talk Bruckheimer I don\'t think you can doubt he leaves his mark on his movies. A big greasy horrible mark, but a mark none the less.
\'course that\'s a good producer. If you talk Bruckheimer I don\'t think you can doubt he leaves his mark on his movies. A big greasy horrible mark, but a mark none the less.
Einion
New member
The thing is I said they often don\'t have any bearing on the quality of the film, not that they don\'t have any input. To put it in other words, the producer is usually no guarantee of the movie being good.
Unfortunately there is probably no reliable predictor to the quality of a film - not the star(s), the director, the studio or the writer. And certainly not the producer:
Bruckheimer - on the one hand we have Thief, Black Hawk Down and Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl but also Pearl Harbour, King Arthur and Kangaroo Jack.
Avi Arad - Blade, Iron Man and Spider-Man 2 but also Hulk, The Punisher (2004) and Ghost Rider.
Gary Levinsohn - Saving Private Ryan, Twelve Monkeys and A Simple Plan but also Virus and Snakes On A Plane.
Joel Silver - The Matrix of course, plus V For Vendetta but also House Of Wax, Speed Racer (!) and Dungeons & Dragons.
Andrew G. Vajna - Jacob\'s Ladder, Mountains Of The Moon and First Blood but also Color Of Night, Basic Instinct 2 and I Spy.
Charles Roven - Batman Begins, Twelve Monkeys and Fallen but also Bulletproof Monk, Rollerball (2002) and Scooby Doo.
Gary Barber - Memoirs Of A Geisha but also Balls Of Fury, Seabiscuit but also The Love Guru.
John Hardy - Out Of Sight but also Gigli.
Scott Rudin - No Country For Old Men but also Zoolander.
Lawrence Bender - Pulp Fiction but also From Dusk Till Dawn 2.
Einion
ScottRadom
Shogun of Saskatchewan
Oh sure, I guess I twisted your words around. I thought you were saying that the producer didn\'t have much to do with the creative outcome of a movie, which I disagree with. But sure in this life there\'s things we hope make a movie good, but no gaurantee\'s.
I like his stuff, but imagine the shock if you go from watching Peter Jackson\'s LotR movies to \"Meet the Feebles\" or \"Bad Taste\". Terry Gilliam made so many movies I love, and then he made \"Brothers Grimm\". I\'ll get him for that. How about Georgie Lucas and Spielberg teaming up for Indy 4? How\'d they get that one so wrong?
So sure, there\'s no gaurantee\'s that any single contributor or even team can make something good.
-edit- What the hell\'s wrong with Zoolander! It\'s awesome!
I like his stuff, but imagine the shock if you go from watching Peter Jackson\'s LotR movies to \"Meet the Feebles\" or \"Bad Taste\". Terry Gilliam made so many movies I love, and then he made \"Brothers Grimm\". I\'ll get him for that. How about Georgie Lucas and Spielberg teaming up for Indy 4? How\'d they get that one so wrong?
So sure, there\'s no gaurantee\'s that any single contributor or even team can make something good.
-edit- What the hell\'s wrong with Zoolander! It\'s awesome!
Einion
New member
Negatory. No matter how much someone wants to read into it I meant exactly what I said. Nothing less and nothing more, which was the problem - inferring something that was not implied.
That\'s why I stressed what I meant in my first reply:
That\'s not easily open to misinterpretation!
But regardless :beer:
It\'s awesome if you\'re a fan of that kind of humour. If you\'re not it\'s a mouldering pile of foetid dingoes\' kidneys.
Einion
