Stirring the pot - creation vs. evolutionism

johnboyjjb

Active member
I have recently watched a series of seminars on creation and evolution. I was reminded of the energetic debate some of us were involved in here. I then found that the seminars could be downloaded and watched for free from here.

If nothing else, I find the speaker interesting enough to listen to even if I disagreed with him.
Just thought some of you might be interested; I\'m not actually trying to \"stir the pot\" as the title suggests.
 

NerdyOgre254

New member
There\'s no evolution. only the changing of creatures in order to get away from chuck norris.
it hasn\'t worked yet :beer:.

nah, just joking. evolution for me.
 

johnboyjjb

Active member
Perhaps I was unclear, I was looking for discussion about the seminars. The speaker quite strongly argues that evolution is not a viable theory and wanted somebody here to punch holes in his argument. He is offering $250,000 reward for proof of macro-evolution.
 

No Such Agency

New member
Every opponent of evolutionary theory demands that scientists try to \"punch holes in his argument\".

And every single time, that \"argument\" is based on some weak-ass thing like you know, dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible or, for the slightly more literate, hey the bacterial flagellum is irreducibly complex! All I could ever have to say on the subject is nicely encompassed in the many thousands of peer-reviewed articles which bolster and clarify the theory of evolution, written by better writers than myself, based on evidence they themselves discovered through years of hard work and observation.

... But since that\'s an unreasonable lot of reading, http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-evolution.html. The talk.origins FAQs cover pretty much every aspect of evolutionary theory, from both \"this stuff is confusing\" and \"where\'s the proof\" perspectives.

If he was an honest man, he\'d have to divide that $250,000 up among all the living scientists who have ever discovered proof of what he calls macro-evolution (generally, species-dividing events). Divided equally, each lab-rat might go home with enough for a sucker from the corner store.

I do not recognize \"creation science\" as science, it is BELIEF. And I will not debate science vs. belief, because it is not possible. The believer does not base their faith on facts, but on feeling, and facts will almost never be enough to sway them. Perhaps as it should be. But their feeling has NO place contesting the reality of what we can observe in the world around us.

Sincerely,
Allison Mackay
a biologist
 

johnboyjjb

Active member
Originally posted by No Such Agency
Every opponent of evolutionary theory demands that scientists try to \"punch holes in his argument\".

His arguements state that evolution is wrong and he provides proofs. I was hoping for someone to show his proofs inaccurate.

And every single time, that \"argument\" is based on some weak-ass thing like you know, dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible or, for the slightly more literate, hey the bacterial flagellum is irreducibly complex! All I could ever have to say on the subject is nicely encompassed in the many thousands of peer-reviewed articles which bolster and clarify the theory of evolution, written by better writers than myself, based on evidence they themselves discovered through years of hard work and observation.

... But since that\'s an unreasonable lot of reading, http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-evolution.html. The talk.origins FAQs cover pretty much every aspect of evolutionary theory, from both \"this stuff is confusing\" and \"where\'s the proof\" perspectives.

If he was an honest man, he\'d have to divide that $250,000 up among all the living scientists who have ever discovered proof of what he calls macro-evolution (generally, species-dividing events). Divided equally, each lab-rat might go home with enough for a sucker from the corner store.

In ten years no one has even claimed it. He hasn\'t even needed to verify a claim - nobody is willing to step forward and say I have the proof.

I do not recognize \"creation science\" as science, it is BELIEF. And I will not debate science vs. belief, because it is not possible. The believer does not base their faith on facts, but on feeling, and facts will almost never be enough to sway them. Perhaps as it should be. But their feeling has NO place contesting the reality of what we can observe in the world around us.

Sincerely,
Allison Mackay
a biologist

The investigation of natural phenomena through observation, theoretical explanation, and experimentation, or the knowledge produced by such investigation. ◇ Science makes use of the scientific method, which includes the careful observation of natural phenomena, the formulation of a hypothesis, the conducting of one or more experiments to test the hypothesis, and the drawing of a conclusion that confirms or modifies the hypothesis.

science. (n.d.). The American Heritage® Science Dictionary. Retrieved July 26, 2007, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/science

Macro-evolution is a hypothesis that was made. No lab results have been able to recreate it and it has never been observed in natural phenomenon.

This part has to be taken on faith making macro-evolution a belief system.

(I\'m still reading the talkorigins site trying to catch up.)
 

johnboyjjb

Active member
Also, here is the 29 proofs for macro-evolution. I know for a fact that two of the vestigial proofs listed here are wrong. And I am not well educated in such things.
 

Mosch

Active member
He is offering $250,000 reward for proof of macro-evolution.

I don\'t even need to watch the videos (I\'m downloading one at themoment, by the way) to tell you that nobody will ever be able to win this money. Since he believes in creationism he is a religious man. His arguments therefore have to be based on belief instead of proof. If you come up with proof that there is evolution the answer will inevitably be \"god made it\". You can not win against religious arguments - he will win every time because it is spiritually impossible for him to be wrong.

Therefore might he stew in his own juices, believe whatever he wants to believe and not interfere with my life. As long as he does not teach children about this stuff he\'s free to belief whatever he wants. If it makes him happy I say go for it.

EDIT: I love it how he makes those jokes and NOBODY laughs or even makes a sound lol
 

Torn blue sky

New member
I honestly don\'t see how evoution can be plausably discounted.
The true course of Evolution has (would have/whatever), taken millenia to get to this point in time! We don\'t KNOW what all the links are, because we simply might not have discovered them yet.
Take a comon cold Virus for instance. That evolves very rapidly into a new strain!
It\'s not what it once was, it has EVOLVED into something more addaptable to suit its own needs and survival.

I could have it backwards obvously, I don\'t ave a degree in micro biology or indeed, any life science. Given the evidence I have seen for myself though, this seems like a very rational perseption.
 

Micha

Member
Im am sorry if my opinion is a bit extreme, but i think there simply can not be any creationism-evolution debate. Why - because there is not a single hint that goes into the direction of creationism besides some centuries-old superstiotion made up by a bunch of backworld palestinean nomads. This simply can not be debated on one level with a scientific theory that has been one of the major research fields of biology for the last century. evolution theory can still be precised and elaborated, but trying to argue against it is absurd. It´s like postulating a \'soul\' to a neurophysiologist - absurd.
Honestly, anyone who still thinks the world was \'created\' 5600 years ago by some extraterrestrial intelligence makes himself rediculous.
Oh and by the way, it is a well-known fact that any new thory should explain
more then the previous one. Well, evolution explains almost everything, creationsm explains nothing.
Micha
 

darklord

New member
creationism is just being labbeled by its followers as science to give it more credence and bring in more followers. there are too many examples of evolution to dismiss it. i beleive there is a new \'museum\' opened in the US that teaches the \'science\' of creationsim?
what gets me is how these people spout the bible and things happen exactly like that but never seem to mention the many other gospels that never made it into the bible simply because the priests at the time didn\'t favour them. it\'s funny how as science and our understanding of our world increased the number of miracles went down
 

Ritual

New member
Originally posted by Torn blue sky
They mostly used needles and other pointy sharpy implements on me :no:
I guess that was the way they had to do it in your case! ;) Just be happy they didn\'t use the bone saw... lol
 

Infidel Castro

New member
If you fancy some proper rows you lot, get over to Theology Online. I go more for Biblical debate about the trinity and hell and the pointlessness of creating humans knowing they would sin, etc...but there\'s an ongoing creationsim v Evolution debate on the site under the Religion forums.

I\'m Vern Reed!
 

Torn blue sky

New member
you know the whole basis for creation is not only laughable due to this fact, but a complete mindfu*k.

If God created all this stuff...Who created god?

Lets face it, nothing just IS. Everything has to get there somehow.
 

Modderrhu

New member
Well bugger me blind... we\'re a mistake?!? It seems that Torn blue sky is the only one of us who isn\'t, and that\'s terrifying.
 

Infidel Castro

New member
Not at all!

The universe is intrinsically geared towards life. Stars have made everything apart from hydrogen, and the universe is evolving too. It\'s inevitable that life occurred. Cheer up!
 
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