substitute to water?
- Thread starter baGer
- Start date
Fizl is right, you cannot get rid of water. However, there are a couple of things you can put in your water to make it do what you want.
Future floor wax is a common one. It\'s an acrylic base, so the paint keeps its paint like consistency and qualities when thinned. One drop of this to 4 drops of water makes an excellent thinning agent, also good for washes too since it keeps the paint in suspension better than water does. Don\'t know where you are, so you might have to find it under a different name. >>Here\'s<< an excellent article about the stuff, and a list of alternate products.
Flow improver, like Winsor & Newton\'s is also an excellent additive. It decreases the surface tension of the thinned paint, so the paint goes on much more smoothly and is far less likely to pool. Dishwashing liquid does the same job, but the Winsor & Newton stuff is far less likely to form bubbles.
And welcome, baGer. There\'s no question you have about painting that people here cannot answer, or at least grant a cynical, sarcastic and derogatory comment to.
Future floor wax is a common one. It\'s an acrylic base, so the paint keeps its paint like consistency and qualities when thinned. One drop of this to 4 drops of water makes an excellent thinning agent, also good for washes too since it keeps the paint in suspension better than water does. Don\'t know where you are, so you might have to find it under a different name. >>Here\'s<< an excellent article about the stuff, and a list of alternate products.
Flow improver, like Winsor & Newton\'s is also an excellent additive. It decreases the surface tension of the thinned paint, so the paint goes on much more smoothly and is far less likely to pool. Dishwashing liquid does the same job, but the Winsor & Newton stuff is far less likely to form bubbles.
And welcome, baGer. There\'s no question you have about painting that people here cannot answer, or at least grant a cynical, sarcastic and derogatory comment to.
Drake Farstrider
New member
Well, I must agree with Fizl and Modderrhu. You need water. I also add a few drops of a Vallejo\'s Thinner.
I would use a mixture..
Airbrush thinners, distilled water, flow aid and a drying retarder if required.
It\'s easy to make up a batch and keep it in a sealed container, transferring it to a dropper bottle as necessary.
There have been heated debates about whether distilled water is better than tap water. Basically it depends upon where you live and how good the quality of your tap water is. A bottle of distilled water costs a few pennies however, and should last the average painter a year at least.
Airbrush thinners, distilled water, flow aid and a drying retarder if required.
It\'s easy to make up a batch and keep it in a sealed container, transferring it to a dropper bottle as necessary.
There have been heated debates about whether distilled water is better than tap water. Basically it depends upon where you live and how good the quality of your tap water is. A bottle of distilled water costs a few pennies however, and should last the average painter a year at least.
Whoa there!
I wouldn\'t persanally go for Windsor and Newton. They make stuff for \'proper painters\' It\'s also over-priced and not really meant for our sort of work. I can assure you that a couple of drops (and I do mean a couple of drops) of proprietary washing-up liquid in an egg cup of water will work just as well. Then, just add a couple of drops of this to your mixing water.
Alternatively, try the same thing using a \'rinse aid\' for automatic dishwashers.
All these products do is remove \'surface tension\'.
Worth having an experiment at least before parting with any cash
I wouldn\'t persanally go for Windsor and Newton. They make stuff for \'proper painters\'
It\'s also over-priced and not really meant for our sort of work. I can assure you that a couple of drops (and I do mean a couple of drops) of proprietary washing-up liquid in an egg cup of water will work just as well. Then, just add a couple of drops of this to your mixing water.Alternatively, try the same thing using a \'rinse aid\' for automatic dishwashers.
All these products do is remove \'surface tension\'.
Worth having an experiment at least before parting with any cash
Einion
New member
One of the simplest tricks to improve flow is to add a couple of drops of dishwashing liquid to your water container to break the surface tension, some flow improvers are actually just concentrated detergent so obviously this is the cheaper option
If the water where you are is quite hard then consider boiling it or buying distilled water for painting, even bottled water might be better at a pinch.
We don\'t know where you\'re from but consider additives from Liquitex (Flow-Aid or Slow-Dri Blending Fluid Medium) and Golden (Acrylic Flow Release or Acrylic Glazing Medium) if they\'re available to you. Winsor & Newton\'s Blending Medium for watercolour is supposed to work very well for smoothing Vallejo paint application according to an article written by a painter whose work I admire, so I would also consider that.
Einion
If the water where you are is quite hard then consider boiling it or buying distilled water for painting, even bottled water might be better at a pinch.
We don\'t know where you\'re from but consider additives from Liquitex (Flow-Aid or Slow-Dri Blending Fluid Medium) and Golden (Acrylic Flow Release or Acrylic Glazing Medium) if they\'re available to you. Winsor & Newton\'s Blending Medium for watercolour is supposed to work very well for smoothing Vallejo paint application according to an article written by a painter whose work I admire, so I would also consider that.
Einion
aha! ok.
i found some winsor & newton for 80 € here in sweden where i live, so i guess its not that expensive
i will check out the products suggested by Einon.
Distilled water sounds like a really good idea aswell. where may i get that?
by the way; i tried to add soap into my paint, the paint got much smoother...but not as smooth as i want it to be. i do think this was due to the painter not the flow increaser
I live on an island, out side of sweden, here the water contains a high amount of calcium, is that good or bad?
i found some winsor & newton for 80 € here in sweden where i live, so i guess its not that expensive
i will check out the products suggested by Einon.
Distilled water sounds like a really good idea aswell. where may i get that?
by the way; i tried to add soap into my paint, the paint got much smoother...but not as smooth as i want it to be. i do think this was due to the painter not the flow increaser
I live on an island, out side of sweden, here the water contains a high amount of calcium, is that good or bad?
80 Euroes? My goodness, I do hope you meant to type just 8! Even at 8 it\'s damned expensive compared to dishwashing liquid, but one single bottle of it will probably last me my entire life. As for the reasons I\'d recommend a flow extender over dishwashing liquid;
1) Dishwashing liquid is usually coloured green or orange, and might alter the colour of the paint a tad? Flow enhancer is clear.
2) Dishwashing liquid is more likely to bubble, causing blemishes in the paintwork - it\'s too effective.
3) Flow enhancer is just plain surfactant, whereas dishwashing liquid usually has other additives for some extra cleaning punch, like lemon juice. I have some rather expensive natural hair brushes (W&N Series 7), and I\'d rather not subject them to the dishwashing liquid additives, potentially damaging them more than is necessary.
Perhaps I\'m being overly picky and fussy and damnably anal by using a flow enhancer, but I prefer the assurance of using it instead of dishwashing liquid.
Too much calcium in your water, eh? Since that goes nice and chalky when exposed to oxygen, it could well affect your paint job. Go for distilled water. A bottle of that is cheap, will last a very long time, and should be available at almost every pharmacy.
1) Dishwashing liquid is usually coloured green or orange, and might alter the colour of the paint a tad? Flow enhancer is clear.
2) Dishwashing liquid is more likely to bubble, causing blemishes in the paintwork - it\'s too effective.
3) Flow enhancer is just plain surfactant, whereas dishwashing liquid usually has other additives for some extra cleaning punch, like lemon juice. I have some rather expensive natural hair brushes (W&N Series 7), and I\'d rather not subject them to the dishwashing liquid additives, potentially damaging them more than is necessary.
Perhaps I\'m being overly picky and fussy and damnably anal by using a flow enhancer, but I prefer the assurance of using it instead of dishwashing liquid.
Too much calcium in your water, eh? Since that goes nice and chalky when exposed to oxygen, it could well affect your paint job. Go for distilled water. A bottle of that is cheap, will last a very long time, and should be available at almost every pharmacy.
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provoke_me
Guest
is it just me...or is it odd to have Finn giving out painting advice when we havent seen any painted minis from him?
well...thats not true, i do believe we saw a chaos knight by him....uh...i think it was a chaos knight anyway.
ok.. back on topic. water...yes..hmmm....water.
well...thats not true, i do believe we saw a chaos knight by him....uh...i think it was a chaos knight anyway.
ok.. back on topic. water...yes..hmmm....water.
Einion
New member
Not good generally. Calcium salts are one of the common minerals in solution in tap water and you can get a white \'tide mark\' when the paint dries. It\'s possible a high mineral content can account for other painting difficulties, making the paint more likely to clump together on a microscopic scale for example.
They are coloured yes but I\'m only recommending a couple of drops per litre. Even were you to add enough to see the colour in your paint it still would not be anything to worry about as the dye would soon fade
Nope. The effect is the same for a given quantity of either (assuming the flow improver is the detergent type).
If you read the guidelines on the use of flow improvers they specifically warn that they lead to an increased chance of foam production but this is little problem for the way we paint thankfully.
That is true but the amounts of scent or colouring agent don\'t appear to harm the paint that I\'ve seen - I\'ve been using this for \'canvas\' paintings and miniatures for over a decade with no observable ill effects.
Actually dishwashing liquid in your rinsing water increases their life! Geez, I\'m beginning to sound like I have shares in the company that makes it :bouncy: but seriously, my brushes last in top condition longer than anyone else I\'ve talked to doing miniatures, which I ascribe in part to the use of a double bath system with a few drops of detergent for rinsing. I also think that repointing them with saliva helps but that\'s not something I\'d stand by
lol, well is the advice any good? One can be a good source of technical tips without being a whiz at whatever it is.
Einion
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provoke_me
Guest
yes, but its still odd.
and hes being helpfull so i guess that ups the oddity of it. lol.
anywho..enough poking fun at finn.
what were we talking about again?
and hes being helpfull so i guess that ups the oddity of it. lol.
anywho..enough poking fun at finn.
what were we talking about again?
vincegamer
Active member
Here Here!Originally posted by dauber22
I mean, people go to their priests for marriage advice, don\'t they
And when\'s the last time you read a movie review by someone who makes movies?
Or when have you eaten at a restaurant run by the NY Times restaurant critic?
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provoke_me
Guest
oh wells. finn knows to much stuff. i guess im just jealous.
P
provoke_me
Guest
oh wells. finn knows to much stuff. i guess im just jealous.
Well, since no one else is, I thought I\'d stick up for straight water! It\'s all I use, straight out of the tap, granted my water here is fairly pure, however I never have used anything added to the water.
Personally I think one key it to never use so much paint that it will \"pool\". Thin your paints, then only apply very little, if it takes more than a few seconds to dry or acts runny, you\'ve probably used too much paint on your brush.
Straight water is your best friend, it keeps you honest
-Eric
Personally I think one key it to never use so much paint that it will \"pool\". Thin your paints, then only apply very little, if it takes more than a few seconds to dry or acts runny, you\'ve probably used too much paint on your brush.
Straight water is your best friend, it keeps you honest
-Eric
