Sweet Monkee of Jebu -
- Thread starter Sand Rat
- Start date
Sand Rat
New member
I think I have more of an issue with the whole concept of a religious court for some issues and the regular legal system for all other issues - leads to a slippery slope that does.
And why should Western Society conform to Islamic Law? Having been in predominately Islamic nations, they make no accomodations to westerners. You follow their laws or go to jail.
And why should Western Society conform to Islamic Law? Having been in predominately Islamic nations, they make no accomodations to westerners. You follow their laws or go to jail.
@steelcult
That\'s my point. Christianity has never had religious courts. The inquisition is perhaps the closest, but it\'s not the same thing. The regular laws have always been secular. So, introducing religious laws (Islamic, even) for parts of the population seems like a daft idea coming from a representative of Christianity.
That\'s my point. Christianity has never had religious courts. The inquisition is perhaps the closest, but it\'s not the same thing. The regular laws have always been secular. So, introducing religious laws (Islamic, even) for parts of the population seems like a daft idea coming from a representative of Christianity.
Beelzebrush
Active member
His comments haven\'t gone down too well (understatement).
It won\'t ever happen either. It\'s simply not realistic to have two sytems of law. The Bish seems to have lost his bloody marbles!
The last thing we need is imprisonment for incorrectly naming teddy bears etc... heaven forbid!
It won\'t ever happen either. It\'s simply not realistic to have two sytems of law. The Bish seems to have lost his bloody marbles!
The last thing we need is imprisonment for incorrectly naming teddy bears etc... heaven forbid!
I can\'t believe the idiot, you can\'t have 2 sets of laws in one country and allow someone to pick which one they are shown justice under.
Also English Law is just that English not sharia law and definatly not a religious law! Why can\'t religous do gooders keep their noses out of where they don\'t belong!!!
Also English Law is just that English not sharia law and definatly not a religious law! Why can\'t religous do gooders keep their noses out of where they don\'t belong!!!
As I understand it, in Britain since the Dissolution of the Monastries religious courts having equal or superior powers to secular courts have been abolished.
I also understand that the Consitution of the European Union also prohibits religious courts in the same manner, which is why Turkey was able to prevent the establishment of Sha\'ria law courts in a Democratic Muslim Country.
So to me this is just a load of Bollocks, spoken by someone trying to placate a very small section of the Muslim population of Britain.
In Britain the \"reformation\" brought about by Henry V111\'s \"actions\" abolished such priviledges in favour of the Secular courts and monarchistic favour.
\"Government by priviledge and favour\".....Wish I could remember who originally said that.
[size=-2]Anyone notice a touch of bitterness there![/size]
I also understand that the Consitution of the European Union also prohibits religious courts in the same manner, which is why Turkey was able to prevent the establishment of Sha\'ria law courts in a Democratic Muslim Country.
So to me this is just a load of Bollocks, spoken by someone trying to placate a very small section of the Muslim population of Britain.
Sorry Anders but you are wrong in that. Bishopric and Diosocene (sp?) Courts existed not only in Britain but throughout \"catholic dominated\" Europe. These were quite often able to ignore or overturn Secular Court rulings and impose their own punishments and fines.
In Britain the \"reformation\" brought about by Henry V111\'s \"actions\" abolished such priviledges in favour of the Secular courts and monarchistic favour.
Wel as someone with No Religious Belief it really P****s me off no end that this man, and his sanctimonious cronies, have a place in the Upper House of Our Government. (The House of Lords).
\"Government by priviledge and favour\".....Wish I could remember who originally said that.
[size=-2]Anyone notice a touch of bitterness there![/size]
@Ritual: No problem here Anders, I think it\'s a matter of perception and perhaps lack of knowledge of history of other peoples countries.
We, or at least I, see Sweden as a very tolerant and liberal country. But I know sod all about your history, so it\'s just the perception that I have, and a fervent hope that its true.
We, or at least I, see Sweden as a very tolerant and liberal country. But I know sod all about your history, so it\'s just the perception that I have, and a fervent hope that its true.
@DR
Yeah, it\'s difficult sometimes to keep track of everything, and school tends to cover the history of other countries in less detail than that of your own country. I\'m not sure if we\'re more tolerant than other European countries, though... Perhaps, but I\'m far from certain. In some ways we\'re very liberal, but in other ways not...
Perhaps more important to the point I was making is that despite the existence of religious courts (which I didn\'t know about) we\'ve always had a degree of secularity in the sense that the church and the state has been separate. You mentioned that religious courts could overrule the secular ones, i.e. there\'s a conflict of power between church and state. In Islamic countries state and religious leadership are often the same and it\'s decreed by their religious texts.
Yeah, it\'s difficult sometimes to keep track of everything, and school tends to cover the history of other countries in less detail than that of your own country. I\'m not sure if we\'re more tolerant than other European countries, though... Perhaps, but I\'m far from certain. In some ways we\'re very liberal, but in other ways not...
Perhaps more important to the point I was making is that despite the existence of religious courts (which I didn\'t know about) we\'ve always had a degree of secularity in the sense that the church and the state has been separate. You mentioned that religious courts could overrule the secular ones, i.e. there\'s a conflict of power between church and state. In Islamic countries state and religious leadership are often the same and it\'s decreed by their religious texts.
No Such Agency
New member
A suggestion for sharia-based civil and family courts was quashed in Ontario. Many Canadian Muslims also opposed it, citing the rule of law, that one\'s faith is a private matter, and that they didn\'t want the wacko faction running their lives any more than they already were trying to.
It was correctly pointed out that a woman (or, indeed, man) from a very backwards family would not truly have a \"choice\" of what system to appeal to, due to massive family pressure and possibly threats. Lo and behold, that warning was validated when we actually had an \"honour killing\" right in Ontario a few months ago. A teenage girl was strangled by her father for being \"immodest\".
You can\'t let the crazies set policy even one little bit, because you can\'t estimate how crazy they\'ll get.
It was correctly pointed out that a woman (or, indeed, man) from a very backwards family would not truly have a \"choice\" of what system to appeal to, due to massive family pressure and possibly threats. Lo and behold, that warning was validated when we actually had an \"honour killing\" right in Ontario a few months ago. A teenage girl was strangled by her father for being \"immodest\".
You can\'t let the crazies set policy even one little bit, because you can\'t estimate how crazy they\'ll get.
As a society we should rise above these things but look at the dicotomy we are creating... on the one hand we have to make sure as not to offend the sensibilites of a culture and religion, but on the other, more and more that culture is demanding people make concessions to them.
Sorry, but some of these factions will not be placated until all our wifes, daughters and sisters are covering their faces in public, and all sorts of other archiac, backward thinking \'legitimate\' discrimination.
Not only does that very extreme fundamentalist behavior exist, it is rapidly growing....and moving to a city near you! ...(Maybe these are just scare tactics passed down from our Commander in Chief, but they do serve a point....)
Of course, the same thing can be said about ANY zealotry...but hopefully cooler heads will prevail. Moderate minds within that religion/culture will have to be the ones to stop it, otherwise the divide will continue to grow.
But then again, it hasn\'t stopped for thousands of years. It\'s basically the same fight, isn\'t it? Why would it stop now?
Sorry, but some of these factions will not be placated until all our wifes, daughters and sisters are covering their faces in public, and all sorts of other archiac, backward thinking \'legitimate\' discrimination.
Not only does that very extreme fundamentalist behavior exist, it is rapidly growing....and moving to a city near you! ...(Maybe these are just scare tactics passed down from our Commander in Chief, but they do serve a point....)
Of course, the same thing can be said about ANY zealotry...but hopefully cooler heads will prevail. Moderate minds within that religion/culture will have to be the ones to stop it, otherwise the divide will continue to grow.
But then again, it hasn\'t stopped for thousands of years. It\'s basically the same fight, isn\'t it? Why would it stop now?
Roger Bunting
New member
It\'s the same here, NSA. A lot of Muslims are against the idea, too. They fear it would cause more division and not intergration, which is what the Archbishop of Lunacy failed to understand.
JesterzUSMC
Recovering Megalomaniac
http://timesonline.typepad.com/faith/2007/10/the-blasphemy-c.html
I find it silly that the \"enlightened people\" never push for religion, and the ignorant masses fight and argue to their deaths about it.
Who ever has chosen the \"right\" god, wins....so take your pick and sit down.
In the global commun ity we are dealing with, we can do NOTHING without offending SOMEONE. Screw it...you can only get offended if you allow yourself to be. That\'s it..I\'m done.:cussing:
Sorry I ranted again...I\'ve been taking my meds.
I find it silly that the \"enlightened people\" never push for religion, and the ignorant masses fight and argue to their deaths about it.
Who ever has chosen the \"right\" god, wins....so take your pick and sit down.
In the global commun ity we are dealing with, we can do NOTHING without offending SOMEONE. Screw it...you can only get offended if you allow yourself to be. That\'s it..I\'m done.:cussing:
Sorry I ranted again...I\'ve been taking my meds.
freakinacage
Well-known member
i like these forums, there are clever people here(although they often disguise it well!)
they wouldn\'t change for us so why should we change for them. they don\'t have to stay here if they don\'t want to.. it is a free country after all
they wouldn\'t change for us so why should we change for them. they don\'t have to stay here if they don\'t want to.. it is a free country after all
