Talk to me about CMON

[Codfather]

I've been in a bit of a game limbo lately. I'm generally a competitive miniature gamer, I've played Warmachine and Guildball for the last 5 years, placing pretty well at some past Warmachine weekends and LVO's. Though lately I've found warmachine to feel more like work, and the local Guidball scene is very small. I've also dabbled in some competitive GW games (bit of an oxymoron, tho the ITC is decent). So you get a feel of what I look for in a game, well supported competitively, tight and balanced rule set, availability of tournaments.


Anyways, I've been looking at ASOIAF lately, watching some how its played and battle reports, seems pretty good. Core concepts are reletively simply, but the application of cards and NCU adds a lot of tactical consideration on top of handling your combat units. Game seems to have a decent Organized Play document, rules seem pretty cut and dry. All good points in its favour.


However, I've had a couple locals warn me about CMON's track record. That they don't support even their flagship games for very long term, and they do some shady stuff distribution wise? I understand CMON is publicly traded, and if a line of product is not selling well they probably have to cut it loose, but I don't want to get heavily invested into a game that has a good chance of being dropped in a year or two.


Any thoughts?

 

[MAXXxxx]

bad support track record is true. At this moment ASOIAF is promoted, but all others (all KS + Dark Age basically) are basically dead (maybe not Zombidice is an exception, but I don't follow it since the first KS).
Shady distro: don't know about this.

As for dropping it... it depends if they can renew the license and if sales show that it's worth keeping it. If any of those 2 will be "no" then dropping the game becomes likely.

For the moment I'd say it's probably worth to start with it (especially if there are others interested), but from past records I would expect it to be dropped/lost in 3-5 years.

 

[Codfather]

As for dropping it... it depends if they can renew the license and if sales show that it's worth keeping it. If any of those 2 will be "no" then dropping the game becomes likely.

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Any idea when the license would be up for renewal? That would be what might worry me. The spin off TV show however does provide some promise the ASOIAF continuing to be popular in the future which will probably help drive sales.

 

[Darkfine]

Right now the only thing that really worries me is the silence from CMON. Even something as simple as saying “we know there are issues and we are working on them” would go a long way.

Our local group recently picked it up and we already have eight or so players but can’t order the two newest faction starters and large parts of the range aside. At this point if the game tanks locally it will be because players can’t buy product.

 

[Oakwolf]

Most of their games go the way of the dodo (i.e. extinct), especially fast in some case, but Song of ice and Fire was supposed to be very different from their usual model.

I do hope they'll fix the distribution issue by the time the Baratheon starter comes out.

 

[AlxRaven]

Better distribution would be nice. However, I have ordered items fairly close to release and have not encountered issues getting them. I also checked miniature market and game nerdz this morning and they have most everything in stock, including the Nights Watch starter. The out of stock stuff seems to be the most recent additions.

CMON has a trend of releasing things in chunks, usually via Kickstarter where retail editions will see gradual releases of content from the KS. They then go back to the popular stuff after a year or so to release new stuff for it. Like Zombicide. So if it’s not popular, it’s kinda “fire and forget”.

That being said, they do quite a bit for the games people like. Updating FAQs. Making apps. Running tournaments at cons they are attending, etc...

its hard to judge how how this one will go, because it’s a much different approach than what they normally do. But it’s been in customers hands about a year now and they have had a steady stream of new content (units, app, game modes, etc...) since then. The only hiccup being when they transitioned to Asmodee.

I do think they will eventually run out of ideas without dipping into power creep, but it’s hard to say when that will be. There are still plenty of groups not represented in the game yet.

 

[Oakwolf]

Better distribution would be nice. However, I have ordered items fairly close to release and have not encountered issues getting them. I also checked miniature market and game nerdz this morning and they have most everything in stock, including the Nights Watch starter. The out of stock stuff seems to be the most recent additions.

CMON has a trend of releasing things in chunks, usually via Kickstarter where retail editions will see gradual releases of content from the KS. They then go back to the popular stuff after a year or so to release new stuff for it. Like Zombicide. So if it’s not popular, it’s kinda “fire and forget”.

That being said, they do quite a bit for the games people like. Updating FAQs. Making apps. Running tournaments at cons they are attending, etc...

its hard to judge how how this one will go, because it’s a much different approach than what they normally do. But it’s been in customers hands about a year now and they have had a steady stream of new content (units, app, game modes, etc...) since then. The only hiccup being when they transitioned to Asmodee.

I do think they will eventually run out of ideas without dipping into power creep, but it’s hard to say when that will be. There are still plenty of groups not represented in the game yet.

I agree.

Perhaps they are tied to the production cycle of the factory they work with, too...and then it's boats and delays can make things go out of stock for a while.

As for power creep, they've been quite creative so far to avoid it...and it seems Michael Shinall is doing a good job of keeping it in control.

The fact that people come here and complain that it's out of stock is a sign (whatever the reason that the product is out of stock) that there is demand.

 

[Tony4095]

I remember in one of the On The Table podcasts (I think) that Michael mentioned that they have releases planned through 2021, if I remember correctly. That was as of a few months ago. I think their initial license for ASOIAF was good for 5 yrs (may be wrong and no idea when the clock started), but as others have mentioned, if the game is popular & selling well, then I'd imagine they would renew the license to continue producing content. I certainly hope this game is around and supported for a very long time as its the best rank and file tabletop wargame I've ever played, and I've played most. The game mechanics, support, iconic IP w memorable characters/units/factions, etc. is top notch. The prices are a steal compared to some other games I've played, the sculpts very good or great depending on particular unit, and the rules relatively simple with a surprising amount of depth built in. CMON has said they approached this particular game differently than their others, and I hope that means long term support.

 

[Garesasb]

I've been in a bit of a game limbo lately. I'm generally a competitive miniature gamer, I've played Warmachine and Guildball for the last 5 years, placing pretty well at some past Warmachine weekends and LVO's. Though lately I've found warmachine to feel more like work, and the local Guidball scene is very small. I've also dabbled in some competitive GW games (bit of an oxymoron, tho the ITC is decent). So you get a feel of what I look for in a game, well supported competitively, tight and balanced rule set, availability of tournaments.


Anyways, I've been looking at ASOIAF lately, watching some how its played and battle reports, seems pretty good. Core concepts are reletively simply, but the application of cards and NCU adds a lot of tactical consideration on top of handling your combat units. Game seems to have a decent Organized Play document, rules seem pretty cut and dry. All good points in its favour.


However, I've had a couple locals warn me about CMON's track record. That they don't support even their flagship games for very long term, and they do some shady stuff distribution wise? I understand CMON is publicly traded, and if a line of product is not selling well they probably have to cut it loose, but I don't want to get heavily invested into a game that has a good chance of being dropped in a year or two.


Any thoughts?

Coming from Warmachine and Guild Ball, I think ASOIAF is definitely worth a serious look. The rules are relatively easy to pick up, but there's enough going on with the tactics cards, NCU activations and objective play that it doesn't feel shallow once you start playing competitively.

Your concern about CMON is fair, though. I'd be less worried about the game disappearing overnight and more concerned about long-term support, faction balance and how easy it will be to find regular opponents and tournaments in your area. A game can have a solid ruleset and organized play structure on paper, but that doesn't mean the competitive scene will remain healthy everywhere.

Personally, I'd look at the current tournament attendance, how frequently the rules and factions are updated, and whether the local community is actually growing. I'd also avoid buying several armies straight away. Start with one faction, get some games in and see whether the competitive side holds your interest.

The biggest advantage ASOIAF has is that it's an established game rather than a brand-new release, so there's already a player base and a decent amount of tournament history to examine. Still, no miniature game is guaranteed long-term support, regardless of the publisher.

I'm curious, though: are your locals warning you based on something specific that happened with ASOIAF, or are they mostly drawing comparisons with CMON's other games? Those are two quite different concerns.