Testors Dullcote Spray a myth? Quick Question!

skraaal

skraaal

New member
Heya,

I've been trying to locate a shop in the UK that supplies ' Testors Dullcote Spray ' online, but the two online sites that I've found are always out of stock each time I visit them.

The two I know of are;

http://www.antenocitisworkshop.com/gbu0-prodshow/testorsdullcote.html

and

http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=pro&pre=tst_hob_mod_spr_101_000

Does anyone know anywhere else I might be able to find this illusive matte dullcoat? I'm based in the Manchester area, so if anyone local knows any physical stores that sells it, I would appreciate that too.

Also on the same subject, I've been reading that It's best to use Testors Dullcote Spray over the top of a layer of Gloss varish like GW's Ard'Coat, is that correct? Rather than spraying it directly onto the model itself.

Thanks in advance and happy painting! :beerwave:
 
Einion

Einion

New member
From a post on Warseer:
http://www.ngtrains.com/Pages/Misc/miscellaneous.htm

eBay is apparently worth checking too.

As for a local source, they'll be like hen's teeth I'll bet!

skraaal said:
Also on the same subject, I've been reading that It's best to use Testors Dullcote Spray over the top of a layer of Gloss varish like GW's Ard'Coat, is that correct? Rather than spraying it directly onto the model itself.
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I think that's primarily for durability (for playing minis) rather than being advisable or necessary more generally. FWIW it's very commonly sprayed directly onto paint in all sectors of the hobby.

Although I presume you're set on getting it there are reasonable alternatives to Dullcote BTW, including Testor's own Model Master Flat Clear but you can also make a matt overcoat from Future and a matting agent at a pinch.

Einion
 
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skraaal

skraaal

New member
The only reason I asked about the double coating over a gloss varnish is because I'd read somewhere that due to it being enamel based, it sometimes takes the paint off if sprayed directly onto the model.

Thanks for the replies guys. More bookmarked sites! :eek:

All the best.
 
Einion

Einion

New member
skraaal said:
The only reason I asked about the double coating over a gloss varnish is because I'd read somewhere that due to it being enamel based, it sometimes takes the paint off if sprayed directly onto the model.
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Dullcote will certainly do its best to take paint off if you brush it on!

FWIW I don't think it can strictly be considered an enamel in the usual meaning of the word (normally enamels don't pose a risk to risk to acrylic/vinyl paints, since they're unaffected by white spirit or turps). I'm not sure what the correct definition would be, maybe a cellulose varnish or cellulose lacquer.

Anyway, the solvents in Dullcote include MIBK and alcohols, which make it very 'hot' to acrylics/vinyl paints as well as enamels (and I think dried oil paint too).

Einion
 
skraaal

skraaal

New member
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Einion

Einion

New member
Was just checking my notes and Creative Models also carry it. Good price too, although they're also out of stock at the moment.

They also stock Glosscote for anyone interested.

Einion
 
Valander

Valander

Member
skraaal said:
Yar I was reading that it was very 'hot' as you put it for acrylics/vinyl paints too. I've ordered a can of the stuff off www.firestormgames.co.uk so I'll test it out on some spare models first, and maybe test the gloss then matte method too.
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I've used Testors Dullcote spray both by itself, and on top of a gloss coat. By itself, I haven't seen it really affect the acrylics, as long as you let it cure before handling them, but that's true of any sealant. It doesn't offer a whole lot of protection on its own, though, which is why I normally gloss coat (Krylon Gloss), then matte coat (Krylon Flat), then hit it with the Testors.
 
skraaal

skraaal

New member
Valander said:
I've used Testors Dullcote spray both by itself, and on top of a gloss coat. By itself, I haven't seen it really affect the acrylics, as long as you let it cure before handling them, but that's true of any sealant. It doesn't offer a whole lot of protection on its own, though, which is why I normally gloss coat (Krylon Gloss), then matte coat (Krylon Flat), then hit it with the Testors.
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Thanks for the info :curl-lip:
 
Da Sub

Da Sub

New member
yes indeedy, for gaming minis I gloss coat them first with a nice tough varnish (like acrylic automotive clear finish) and then overcoat with DC. However if you want to use it on its own I can only advise two-three thin coats as one thick coat can cause contraction cracking in the under-laying layers if too thick...
There has been discussion about this and other matt finish related hijinks over at FTW for a while now.
 
S

skeeve

Member
skraaal said:
Heya,
Also on the same subject, I've been reading that It's best to use Testors Dullcote Spray over the top of a layer of Gloss varish like GW's Ard'Coat, is that correct? Rather than spraying it directly onto the model itself.
Click to expand...
yes indeedy, for gaming minis I gloss coat them first with a nice tough varnish (like acrylic automotive clear finish) and then overcoat with DC
Click to expand...
More often then not it is a myth (although as always the devil is in details). There are different types of protective coatings. Manufacturers and, especially, users are often use the names for different products without realizing that there is actually difference in chemistry.

For example, specifically for Testor there is NO difference between gloss and matte versions as far as the ammounts of polymers or protective compounds. Here compare the two
GlossCotte: http://www.testors.com/media/document/MS.0012610.111708.pdf
DullCote : http://www.testors.com/media/document/MS.0012600.111008.pdf

The only difference between the two is that DullCote contains what they call Silica Gel Pigments. It is a flattening agent that makes DullCote, well, dull. That component has been in use since , I believe late 40th, being tested to death and it does not contribute anything to hardness. If somebody is interested I can send you some original, very boring papers on the subj.

In fact, for almost (again see below) all "varnishes", "lacquers", "clears", "superprotective spray-can-delivered shields of doom", gloss is a default state. To make it matte you have to add flatting agents, most of which nowadays are silica based. Again there are several gloss varnishes, mostly on the art side of things (winsor&newton being one) that add compounds to increase glossiness.

However (the "devil" part) some resin-based varnishes become glossy when you increase the amount on polymer agent. They are also harder (and more brittle) because of this. I very much doubt that anybody in this hobby actually use those, but hell, who knows. Many varnishes that are used in woodcraft and especially, furniture restoration are like this (again, not all of them). Some of Krylon varnishes that differs only by "gloss" or "satin" in the name, and only by a single number in a catalog are very different in chemical composition and use different polymers.

My point is that in order to make argument that gloss is harder then matte you need an exact compositions of the product you are working with. Specifically for Testor, it is incorrect.

PS. USA regulators require companies selling their stuff in this country to make Material Safety data sheets available. Krylon and testor have theirs on their web sites (Krylon is owned by Sherwin-Williams). Good luck finding it for GW products. I couldn't find any refs to those.
 
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Da Sub

Da Sub

New member
Skeeve, you are indeed correct. The specific gloss I use is the high impact stuff that helps prevent stone chips on your car. The DullCote is then just used to matt the thing back down. DullCote is no tougher vs chipping than most other varnishes used for hobby applications (as you rightly stated).
If I could find a good highly chip resistant Matt finish that could do it in one go I certainly would try it.
 
oistene

oistene

Active member
Sorry for the thread-necromancy, but I have a relevant question - anyone know of a place that ship these internationally, without charging UDS20+++ in shipping?
 
oistene

oistene

Active member
I found a dozen stores that carry it, but none that wants to send it to Norway. Is there a good substitute?
 
Splurch

Splurch

New member
oistene said:
I found a dozen stores that carry it, but none that wants to send it to Norway. Is there a good substitute?
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Probably, but I haven't seen people talk about alternatives. It's a lacquer based sealer which is why it is different from most. Frankly I'm not a fan of dullcote. A lot of people say it's amazingly matte but I find its more of a low satin and not actually matte. If you're looking for something to protect your mini's acryllic sealers work just fine. Not sure what brands you have, but hardware/automotive stores will sell cans acryllic sealer that will work just fine. Get a gloss and get a matte. Gloss coat first, let that dry according to the instructions. After that coat it with the matte and you're mini will be good.
 
oistene

oistene

Active member
Finally found some on eBay - shipping was steep, but the total price for two was less than I would have expected to pay locally.
 
Amazon warrior

Amazon warrior

New member
I don't know if you'd find this helpful now but.... back in the day when I was painting more and I lived in Germany, I couldn't get Testor's DC easily so I checked out local art shops instead and found a pretty nice can of matt spray varnish for £not much. Unfortunately, I can't for the life of me remember what brand it was or if I even still have it (I *hope* I do!). :/ But I would say that it's worth checking alternate avenues for things like that. :)
 
oistene

oistene

Active member
In the end, I managed to get some off eBay - and cheaper than what I'd expect most brands to be here. But I agree, sometimes it pays to experiment.
 
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