The Dempsey\'s & Co.

[NINJAWIZARD]

So this has nothing to do with mini\'s, the hobby, aliens or farm equipment, k?

Let me preface this with \"I like pets.\" We have a couple dogs, down to 1 cat (one died unexpectedly at 2yrs), and a couple fish tanks. This post is about my latest tank. I had given up on my saltwater reef tank for a couple reasons. Cost to run that freaking 760watt metal halide/power compact light, adding 5 gallons of water every 2-3 days, and I couldn\'t seem to get ahead of the algea, even with the snails\' help. I like my tanks to look pristine, and it would only look like that for a day or two at most. So I opted to start an aggressive freshwater tank.

I figured, in my backwards way of thinking, that since I\'m serious about keeping aquariums, it was time to invest in a NEW 55gal aquarium. No more used Craigslist tanks for me. I said \"My next tank is going to look amazing.\"

Well, it\'s getting there. I still have some driftwood to add, some plants (fake, since these fish uproot and kill live plants), and a backdrop. The substrate is a mix of black Tahitian sand, and regular black gravel. I really like how it turned out The rocks are from land slides along the highway that runs along Cook Inlet (the arm from the Pacific that runs up to Anchorage), and the grasses are live plants, surrounded by rocks to keep the JD\'s from uprooting them.

I have 1 male Jack Dempsey, 1 female, and a Pink Convict (all cichlids). The male is about 2\", the pink is at about 2.5\" and the female is probably 1.5\" now. The JDs will get up to 10\" and 8\" and the convict will reach 6\" or so. The convict is my dither fish, so the JDs bond and mate. They like to lay their eggs on flat rocks, so that was what we looked for. I think I gave her plenty of room

Without further ado:

PHOTOBUCKET ALBUM

Thanks for looking

 

[Roger Bunting]

I don\'t know much about fish. I\'ve never heard of those particular species before. Quite pretty, they are. What do you mean by an aggressive tank?

 

[NINJAWIZARD]

By aggressive, I mean the fish are mean. The Jack Dempsey\'s (named after the 1920\'s boxer, known for his badassedness) will be nice to each other, and some other types of cichlids, but for the most part, if it can fit in their mouth, they\'ll eat it.

The Convict\'s are mean, too. All 3 eat live fish. When they get bigger, they\'ll be really fun to watch at feeding time.

 

[Sand Rat]

Sounds like a good mix.

Course if you want really aggressive freshwater you\'ve got to go with African Cichlids.

 

[NINJAWIZARD]

When I get my 180+ gallon tank

That won\'t happen until we buy a new house, and have room to put one that big. I\'d love to get some Malawi\'s, but I\'ve only got a 55g.

 

[darthfoley]

My wife and I have been struggling with a community tank of guppies and cories...I\'ve about given up on it. Out of appx 12 guppies we\'ve bought we have 1 left...3 out of 5 cories left.

The guppies...man they frustrate me.

 

[NINJAWIZARD]

Originally posted by darthfoley
My wife and I have been struggling with a community tank of guppies and cories...I\'ve about given up on it. Out of appx 12 guppies we\'ve bought we have 1 left...3 out of 5 cories left.

The guppies...man they frustrate me.

So out of 17 fish, you have 4 left. How big is your tank? In a community tank, a general rule of thumb is to have 1 gallon of tank per inch of fish.

We have a 20 gallon community tank with 17\" of fish, and they do very well. One angel fish, 2 cory\'s, 1 pleco, 2 neon tetra\'s, 2 cardinal tetra\'s and a harlequin rasbora. The Harley and the cardinals hang out together, since they\'re similar color/marking and size.

The key is to keep your water clean, guppies need clean water, and they can\'t be crowded. At 1.5-2\" average, you\'ll need at least a 20 gallon tank for just them, add in 2-3\" cory\'s and you\'re looking at a 30-35g tank, minimum. Overcrowding stresses fish, breeds diseases and eventually kills \'em.

I learned that the hard way when I first started keeping fish.

 

[r2j1]

So out of 17 fish, you have 4 left. How big is your tank? In a community tank, a general rule of thumb is to have 1 gallon of tank per inch of fish.

I really dislike the 1\" rule, it is such a gross oversimplification. A 6 inch oscar will have exponentially more impact on a tank then six 1 inch neons. I worked in a pet store in college, and I ha.ve seen people use it justify putting huge fish in small tanks. A little common sense and know how are your best friend when it comes to stocking levels.

As far as foleys tank I don\'t think it is terrible. Guppies are small and lets face it mostly tail. In a well taken care of 10G I don\'t think 12-15 on their own is a problem. The coreys tend to want more space and if you really want a school of them a bit bigger tank would definitely be best.

Ninja wizard, your tank looks to be a Jack Depmsey tank for sure. I had one as a kid and all the gravel was always pushed against the sides of the tank, thats the way he liked it. They really are a pretty fish, but boy are they pugnacious.

I have been with a tank myself for a few years now, but i kinda have wanted to get back in lately. I have a nice 30G long set up thats been sitting in storage for awhile. I have been wanting to set up a Tanganyika community tank with some shell dwellers, leleupi, small julidochromis, maybe some brichardi. It kinda would depend on what I could find really. And if anyone understood what the heck I was talking about in that set up, congratulations you are a fish nerd.

 

[NINJAWIZARD]

Heh, well I wouldn\'t consider an oscar a community fish Which is why I\'m not putting 55\" worth of cichlids in my tank. But yeah, it is an over-simplification, but for community fish (like tetra\'s, rasbora\'s, guppies, etc) it tends to work. If a person had 30\" of fish in a 20 gallon tank, they\'ll probably run into problems.

I really wanted to get a Managuense, but after much research, found that I didn\'t have a big enough tank. An 18\" fish wouldn\'t be too happy in a 4ft long tank

 

[airhead]

I\'ve got a 125 that started full of florida natives. We went down to the local pond, and dip netted a bunch of minnows.

I had bluegill, bass, catfish and some very pretty minnows that turned into Blue Acara Cichlids (large guys with irridesent blue mouths). They ate everything else - except a large armored catfish (plucustimus).

 

[r2j1]

Originally posted by NINJAWIZARD
Heh, well I wouldn\'t consider an oscar a community fish Which is why I\'m not putting 55\" worth of cichlids in my tank. But yeah, it is an over-simplification, but for community fish (like tetra\'s, rasbora\'s, guppies, etc) it tends to work. If a person had 30\" of fish in a 20 gallon tank, they\'ll probably run into problems.

Well I have seen some lovely overstocked Mbunu setups that do stock at those kind of levels. But there is a reason for that kind of set up, and the people running them know how to do it.

I really wanted to get a Managuense, but after much research, found that I didn\'t have a big enough tank. An 18\" fish wouldn\'t be too happy in a 4ft long tank

You like the big boys don\'t you! :lol:
Personally, my obsession with miniatures extend beyond this hobby. I prefer small and dwarf varieties of cichlid myself. And back when I was doing saltwater dwarf and pygmy angels were my favorite.

 

[r2j1]

Originally posted by airhead
I\'ve got a 125 that started full of florida natives. We went down to the local pond, and dip netted a bunch of minnows.

I had bluegill, bass, catfish and some very pretty minnows that turned into Blue Acara Cichlids (large guys with irridesent blue mouths). They ate everything else - except a large armored catfish (plucustimus).

That sounds like a cool set up, not enough people show the love for native species. Did you catch the pleco in the wild or did you buy it? plecos aren\'t native to Florida they are an Amazonian species. But I have been to Florida the last 2 years and spent a good deal of time snorkeling in the springs, and I unfortunately saw a lot of plecos. They were down right epidemic in some places. Blame the idiot aquarium owners who got bored of their tanks and dumped the fish in the local rivers. :cussing: I\'m actually amazed they are doing so well, the come from warm, soft dark water in the wild, but those springs they\'re all hanging around are filled with cold, hard, clear water. Non native species suck. :flame:

 

[Sand Rat]

Back when I was working in a petshop to support my aquarium habit I was running well over the 1in=1gallon rule - but I was running 300 gph filters on 20 gallon tanks and changing water religiously -

Never did get into salt water though
lol

 

[airhead]

Originally posted by r2j1
That sounds like a cool set up, not enough people show the love for native species. Did you catch the pleco in the wild or did you buy it? plecos aren\'t native to Florida they are an Amazonian species. But I have been to Florida the last 2 years and spent a good deal of time snorkeling in the springs, and I unfortunately saw a lot of plecos. They were down right epidemic in some places. Blame the idiot aquarium owners who got bored of their tanks and dumped the fish in the local rivers. :cussing: I\'m actually amazed they are doing so well, the come from warm, soft dark water in the wild, but those springs they\'re all hanging around are filled with cold, hard, clear water. Non native species suck. :flame:

dipped them as minnows from a pond behind an apartment complex (want to guess where they came from?). That is all that is in that pond now. No bass, no catfish, no bluegills.

Funny part is, I was at petsmart, saw a tank full of them and told the girl that I could take her to a pond full of them. She told me in no uncertain terms that they would not survive in central Florida. I just laughed out the store.

 

[NINJAWIZARD]

Hah, those pet store people know everything, though!

In my recent \"research\" I\'ve read a fair bit about a number of south/central american species being released into north american waters, and surviving, when by all rights, they shouldn\'t be. Amazon water is a bit different than the rivers, lakes and ponds in North America

Strange, but neat.

@r2j1: Yes, I like big, impressive fish These aren\'t so big yet, but they will be.

I\'d need a huge huge ginormous tank if I were to house native fish. Being in Alaska, we have salmon, uhm, more salmon, halibut, some rainbows, and probably a few more that I\'m not familiar with. Generally, when we go out dipnetting, we\'re eating what we pull out of the river for dinner

 

[darthfoley]

We have a 20 gallon tank.

And the numbers are over time. We started with 4 guppies, lost 1, cycled the tank, added 3, lost 2, cycled the tank, added, lost, etc etc

Edit: our most recent was 2 guppies and 3 cories in the tank, fully cycled...added 2 guppies...within a week lost 3 of the guppies...

We have a second tank, a 6 gallon, with a betta and 3 white clouds that has been absolutely no trouble at all over the same time span.

 

[NINJAWIZARD]

Originally posted by darthfoley
We have a 20 gallon tank.

And the numbers are over time. We started with 4 guppies, lost 1, cycled the tank, added 3, lost 2, cycled the tank, added, lost, etc etc

Edit: our most recent was 2 guppies and 3 cories in the tank, fully cycled...added 2 guppies...within a week lost 3 of the guppies...

We have a second tank, a 6 gallon, with a betta and 3 white clouds that has been absolutely no trouble at all over the same time span.

Sounds like you have The Tank of Death! My wife brought one into our house. In fact, that\'s our 20 gallon that has been redeemed. It took me about 8 months of diligent work to get it to the point it\'s at now, but that\'s what really brought me into the hobby. I found that I really enjoy keeping fish and keeping them healthy and happy. My wife teases me because I\'ll just sit and watch \'em until she nabs my attention.

I wish I had some useful advice for ya, darthfoley

 

[airhead]

Darth, when you say \'cycled\' the tank, are you pulling out more than 25% of the water? I\'ve found that people over-changing the water is much worse than under-changing.

I try not to take out more than about 10% when I am vacuuming/syphoning the tank, then add back aged water or treat it with clor-out and then put it through an activated carbon filter before it hits the tank water.

 

[darthfoley]

When I say \'cycled\' I\'m referring to the ammonia cycle. I always add fish when the cycle is at a zero point - after adding fish the ammonia levels will rise a bit as the tank adjusts to the increase in bio waste, etc. Unfortunately, I seem to lose fish in the second week after adding new members to the tank - in the second week of this cycle.

As for water changes, I don\'t typically change more than 25% unless the ammonia level is astronomically high, which has only happened once.

 

[Sand Rat]

DF- couple of suggestions - it sounds like you\'re monitoring the amonia cycle in the tank but what about the PH? There are some pretty cheap testing kits out there that will let you check that as well, and it can do damage to your fish as well.

There are also some bacterial suppliments you can buy that you add to the water and they tend to help keep the ammonia spikes in control - its the ammonia eating bacteria -