The effect on our hobby of the internet...

[demonherald]

Probably already been done this one...but last night as I was looking through the Galleries and connecting to various peoples own website links,,in an ever more familiar type of evening spent searching for examples of techniques I am trying to re learn ..A thought occured...

20 Years ago when I started painting I had a model painting guide ..a copy of White Dwarf and luckily a local GW (child unfriendly places them days .) and that was basically it..

Hours spent copying the store or magazine colour schemes . Trying to understand what the bloody hell layering was after reading 3 pages of black and white text...It took me at least 5 or 6 years to get to a decent level..

Just look at it now The internet and it\'s miniature painting community.. video threads,, step by steps..amazing able to develop people in no time..

However I think with all the benefits some of the wonder has been lost ..True it\'s great been able to learn NMM ,,OSL etc but the more I look around the harder it is to see true originality in the miniature hobby..

Feel free to give us your thoughts on the internets effect on the hobby ..
or simply ignore this as the ramblings of a 30+ year old realising the world has advanced in his last 15 years of drinking , marrying ,,divorcing ,, having a child losing a pet or two losing the odd family member , gaining new ones ,, changing jobs 5 times and houses 6 emmigrating,,coming home ,, emmigrating again,,,coming back home,,and discovering he really loves scuba diving and really hates chav\'s and f*%@ing Big Brother.........
ramble ramble moan moan.......

 

[Ogrebane]

That all being said there is no substitute for bum in seat time. Sure people learn new tecniques earlier but they still have to practice. I disagree with the so called lack of originality. The only thingis that as soon as a cool style is displayed it is copied. I have seen a variety of styles on this site that have given me a lifetime of ideas. I\'ll admit it gets harder to be original these days as just about everything has been done but some clever little noob out there will come up with something and the cycle will begin again.

This looks like a good place for einion to come in.

 

[RedSevenBlue]

I rather think that if somehow, some kids from the 1930\'s were to teleport into this century, they would kick our arses all over the place.

 

[krom1415]

That last bit demonherald, made me laugh!
It is said we are taught by our willingness to learn, both work hand in hand. One cannot get good, without the bum on seats time anyway. I think it is a good thing that people have access to a great deal of info, like on here, and what a great feeling it is when after all the help and info, one finally paints a decent mini.
I started painting when I was 11 in @71 and given up loads of times through frustration.
In 2005 whilst finally deciding to sell all my models on ebay, the internet gave me the spark to try once more, I found a tutor my mentor \"Ian Stables\" of front rank fame and a bucket load of help from this wonderfull site, including \"Alexi z\", to name drop but a few.
Since august 05 when I started to paint again, my standard has erupted, and the pleasure and wonder I have experienced since then, eclipses anything I have done before.
I love the contact it gives me, and the access to info, and exchange of thoughts with other like minded people.
I feel a true artist cannot experience originality, untill he experiences a high standard, and this would not happen as often as it does now without the internet.
(This is from my martial arts training, as I\'m not good enough to say about painting artists, however art is art, so they say)

LONG LIVE THE INTERNET

The only negative I can see is, the shutting of high street model shops, due to the no overhead internet ones.

Great thoughts though demonherald, all the best, and as the marmoset aka penguin would say \"happy painting\"

 

[demonherald]

don\'t get me wrong I do think it\'s a good thing ...I was more rambling about the general effects of the internet on this and many other hobbies.. I miss getting a little flutter in my chest when I notice that model I\'ve always wanted and never thought I\'d get sat on a mixed jumble shelf at a mini show..rather than typing it in as a search and finding ebay has millions..
An that ever challenging thought of wow how did they do that...when the Golden demon results are seen..It makes me think what would the level of painting in GD\'s be like now without the ability to pick up tutorials on how the French do weathering and freehand...the spanish do metals etc....

 

[No Such Agency]

The #1 effect that I\'ve felt? The realization that I was not as good a painter as I thought I was... and simultaneously, the means to correct that shortcoming. Nobody has to struggle in artistic isolation any more, the work and techniques of really great mini painters are available for scrutiny here.

EDIT: I don\'t count \"WD magazine and the Citadel painting guide\" as useful sources back in the day, since they were very misleading and only caused frustration!

 

[hakoMike]

Internet certainly provides a sense of community that I wouldn\'t otherwise get with this hobby. I vividly remember not only the days of photocopying things to pass around with my very small group of like-minded friends, but the pre-photocopy days. My friends and I once made a ditto master of an RPG character sheet so that we could run many copies. (There were Xerox machines around, but they were dear.)

Plus, I can sit and post in forums for hours on end instead of painting.

 

[Stuntylover]

I\'ve been a painter of miniatures since before there were PCs let alone the Internet. In those early days my friends and I painted historical military miniatures, usually of extremely poor sculpting quality, and we though our results were the bee\'s knees as we proudly displayed our efforts in our club\'s monthy competitions, oblivious to what was going on in the rest of the world.

Since those days we have seen an improvement out of all recognition in sculpting quality, paints, availability and scope of minis, and we have the window on the world, the Internet, to compare our results and methods.

I have learned much more about technique from the Internet in the past year (I returned to painting after a 16 year break) than I ever learned in decades in my earlier painting experence. I have seen what the various top talents have to offer and learned from them what it takes to produce such outstanding minis. I have been able to exchange views with people from all over the world; the benefits of Internet are legion.

But I have one major concern. Photography and the Internet demand that minis are blown up to proportions far in excess of the real size of the minis and as a consequence every blemish is magnified, so most paint jobs look mediocre compared to the normal viewing experience. Minis are meant to be viewed at roughly half-arm\'s length in normal indoor lighting. I paint to that criterion. If I have to paint to the camera at artificial magnification, it requires a whole new technique which I am not prepared to learn. I still live in the real world where my friends view things as nature intended.

The Internet has many attributes for modellers but one fatal flaw. Nothing is real anymore. For me size does matter. I don\'t want my well-painted 28mm model to appear like a badly painted 54mm.

Perhaps I\'m getting too old and don\'t appreciate that magnification and exaggeration is the norm today. The Internet - a blessing and a curse.

 

[Ogrebane]

Its true what photography can do but I find it helps me find mistakes I dont pic up. Nothting worse than painting a mini and having someone tell you you missed a spot.

Still its up to the individual as to how he/she want thier mini to look. Just show smaller pics on cmon alot of people do and Im sure some of them do it on purpose.

 

[penguin]

Hey, if there was no originality and it was that easy, we\'d all be Spanish Teams, Alexi_Zs, Victorias, goatmen.... True the internet is greatly beneficial, but if you do not practise and have some degree of talent/skill, the benefit is lost.

Happy painting

~Bill

 

[SebastianRushworth]

I disagree with the suggestion that images look worse on the internet than in real life. Generally, I find that they look better. At least, that\'s my opinion after going the GDUK last year and comparing the actual minis with the photos of them on-line.

I seriously doubt I\'d still be painting minis if it hadn\'t been for the on-line community in general and CMON in particular. Having people to talk to about it, and meeting new friends with the same interests is great for keeping interest and motivation up.

 

[Modderrhu]

Originally posted by krom1415
I feel a true artist cannot experience originality, untill he experiences a high standard, and this would not happen as often as it does now without the internet.
(This is from my martial arts training, as I\'m not good enough to say about painting artists, however art is art, so they say)

Have you head the story of the Kung Fu student who trained so hard, that everything his master taught him, he forgot? His master was overjoyed, saying that the student had not merely mimicked, but had made the training his own. Yes, I believe that applies to any art. Wonderful stuff!

Heh, I didn\'t start painting without the internet. It wasn\'t a book that I could take to bed with me, but I would never have dreamt of doing things that I do now. Nothing original, but in time, they will be done as only I can do them.

Originally posted by No Such Agency
EDIT: I don\'t count \"WD magazine and the Citadel painting guide\" as useful sources back in the day, since they were very misleading and only caused frustration!

Hah! Now that\'s the truth! Damn liars, they were. Underneath the pic it said, \"Drybrush goblin green...\", but a good look at the pic showed some skilled blending going on. No wonder they were cause for frustration.

 

[Orb]

The internet has had a HUGE effect on our hobby.

For those of us who were making models pre WWW, it\'s quite clear what the internet has offered us.

Community - the friends I\'ve made and subsequently met well exceeds chance conversations at model shows.
Many of us can\'t find or are too far from clubs so this is our club.
Also, some incredible artists sharing techniques and methods in SBS articles. For Free. Cos they\'re really nice people who want us to better ourselves!

Opportunity - the internet has given smaller mini manufacturers the chance to grow and flourish in a way that wouldn\'t have been possible before; with every town in the UK having a GamesWorkshop store selling ONLY their products, how were the little guys supposed to succeed? Without the internet I wouldn\'t know about Rackham, Hasslefree, Ilyad.....etc etc.

What P-P-P-Penguin says about getting down and actually painting is so true. The internet can inspire, teach, but it\'s still in your hands to practise practise practise......

BUT
if you can meet other painters and see the stuff in the flesh then do it!
When I was 13 I was lucky enough to find a very active club for historical figures in my town, with some of the best sculptor/painters around at that time. And lately I\'ve found another club and actually talking, sharing ideas etc flows much quicker face to face!

 

[supervike]

The internet has been a boon to this hobby, that is for sure.

Obviously, the biggest thing for me was to see that there are lots and lots of folks interested in the same little hobby. The friendships and comradery is second to none, and probably what keeps me going in the hobby the most.

The second big thing is the availablity of miniatures. I can remember the days when you were lucky to find a store that sold them, and then the stock was always poor to say the least. The internet has opened my eyes (and wallet) to SOOOO many manufacturers and different styles of miniatures.

The third is the increase in general talent. Not only of the painting, but with so many people pushing the envelope, the world of sculpting is reaching incredible heights as well....something I doubt it would have done without the instant community the internet has brought us.

I would have to say, the internet has been the single most important development to the hobby.