The future of the warhammer "look"

[moetle]

I love the 40k fluff. Sorry can't help it. Thats just the truth of it and it is what it is.

I'm not really into the fantasy stuff other then the novels now but my first army was Chaos warriors. Don't remember when that was exactly, but i do remember that my army "book" was this thin little book called "ravaging Hordes" or something like that. I got it from a games/comic book store that i started playing at after i got into it. It had several different armies in it. I think i still have it in a box somewhere. I got it for free just for showing interest in the game from the store owner. I even still have that army in a box somewhere fully painted hehehe.

Anyways, the chaos warriors have always caught my eye as the years have progressed, and these are my thoughts.

The army book: Yay! Another 49.50 codex that makes your order not have free shipping, unless you buy something else. Free Shipping on $50.00 and up. Every time i see this it eats at me.

I haven't seen these in RL, so i'm going just by the website.

Slaughterbrute - Looks very Chaos like to me. I don't like the pose much either. It says to me "Hey everyone! look at me! Shoot at me!" I probably wouldn't use this unless it had just bad ass stats 6/10

Mutalith - I really like this version more then the other. It really looks chaotic to me. The GW color scheme on this looks great to me which is probably why i like it better hehe. 7/10

Dragon ogres - back in the day i had 4-5 of the originals. And they were hideous! I hated the way these things looked. But they were awesome on the battlefield. I also never understood the name "Dragon ogres" when they are clearly Ogre dragons. I mean its not bearowl its a friggin owlbear! Whatever is the head goes first! wtf people!
Ahem. Sorry. The new sculpts are an improvement but not a lot imho. 6/10

Chaos Chariot - I don't like this at all. Its way too unchaos like. Maybe its the lack of flair. I would have to convert the piss out of this for me to be happy with it. 3/10

Forsaken - This was a very chaosy kit. I mean, they are warped by too much "chaos power" almost loosing the last of their humanity kinda thing. I can see people buying this kit just for conversions for all kinda of stuff. 8/10

Chaos Lord - I didn't like this one. For a chaos lord he is pretty plain jane looking other then his spear and his pose. The banding is way to thick and simple. The face and horns remind me of hellboy. 3/10

Throgg - I like this model. It has a ton of character. I'd buy this model. If it was 30 bucks. 9/10 but way too much cost.

Vilitch the curseling - The only thing i didn't like about this guy was the way the demon thing's stomach is twisting like its just folded over greenstuff and not a stomach twisting. 7/10

None of these gives me the "i should break out my chaos army and update it" feeling. The only one that says "paint me nao!" is the troll, but only a little, and no way at that price. Just my thoughts. The prices are way too high on all these.

Moe

 

[RuneBrush]

Over the past year or so, I've been finding very similar to a lot of you on the GW front. I am a fan of GW, they've pushed the industry on in a number of ways (including being the company to be better than) and have pushed the existing technology to new heights (I'm talking injection molding here).

However as each month passes by I'm finding that there is more stuff being released that makes me want to moan than go "Wow!". The Chaos release wasn't going to particularly inspire me as I'm not a Warhammer player. Looking through the releases the only one that really made me go "that's really nice" was the new Chaos Lord - however £15 for a single plastic miniature is ridiculous when you consider that you can buy a tank for that. I used to have a beastman army until they completely changed how it worked so was interested in what they'd do with the dragon ogres. Overall they're OK, but I think the bodies should have had a similar scale patterning and they should have been made more in scale with the old ones, these look to be massive in comparison. This just follows on the trend that everything is getting bigger for the sake of it.

Since last September I've really pulled back on my purchases and instead concentrated on collecting a FW Death Guard Heresy army. I'm enjoying assembling and painting these far more than I have for a number of years. It's a combination of reasons, but realism is one that does frequently appear - look at a GW marine's feet in comparison to a FW one and you'll see what I mean. I've also just plopped down a blob of cash for Rivet Wars so my GW purchases are going to be quite limited for the next year or so.

 

[TrystanGST]

That's the real conundrum with GW - they've got a rich universe with tons of interesting fluff (I'm really enjoying the horus heresy novels, even if they do veer from the plot now and then), and occasionally they produce some really great pieces. I'm thinking the Coven Throne/Mortis Engine, most of the Necron line, the Hellbrute, and other pieces here and there. But their prices have been getting away from them for years (A box of 5 mounted knights is $100? And this was one or two rule versions ago), and it's not showing any signs of slowing. It's a good thing there's other options out there, but I will be sad if GW ever ceases to exist entirely.

 

[Bailey03]

I've always been a fan of chaos figures, whether it's from the fantasy line or 40K. But I agree, the style of this new release is not at all for me.

The Chaos Lord - This is probably the only figure from this set I'd consider buying. I like the pose, his style/look is interesting without being cartoony, and the cape offers some nice opportunities for cool free hand work. With the right paint job this could be a very neat looking figure.

Throgg - Throgg isn't bad. He's not for me... but he's not bad. Way overpriced? Even by GW standards I'd say so.

Dragon Ogres - The one rearing up on his hind legs about to strike makes sense. For the other two, having their front legs off the group is just plain silly looking. There's no action in their pose so having them off balance just looks wrong.

For the rest it's not even worth going into what's wrong with them. The original post sums it up pretty well: "Poor poses, weird proportions, poorly executed anatomy and muscles and weapons/cloaks/horns of a size only seen on privateer press models."

It's a shame because I used to really like GW's fantasy chaos figures. Instead of this sorry lot of figures, I'd go with the Ysian faction from Darklands (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mierceminiatures/darklands-a-world-of-war) or pick up some Helskvat from Red Box Games (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1103158358/red-box-games-helsvakt-horde?ref=search).

 

[twyg]

I gotta say, the Slaughter brute is pretty fancy, and something I'd consider picking up. The price is horrendous, however it is GW. I like the "devil horns" in the air since it looks a lot more like he's rockin' out than about to swipe something off the table, which I find amusing.

 

[Avelorn]

Seems like we're having a lot of different opinions here. The only thing that really unites us is that we think the miniatures are overpriced. But I don't think the lord is that bad, sure it's plastics but it's really nice plastics. I think I'll buy it, long time since I painted Chaos which is my favourite army (hate the fluff of the new(er) deamon codex though - talk about being OTT).

 

[Pictish Mini Painting]

I am sold to the tune of the book n magic cards with a view to doing a monster army or something with a lot of slaughter brutes, nurgle or tzeentch hmmm.

Fantasy here I come again, it's been a while!

 

[gohkm]

I'm definitely in the minority in that I do like a lot of the new GW releases. However, the prices are what's killing my interest in picking any of them up. I went down to the GW store in Hurstville the other day, and it was $96 AUD for the Slaughterbeast. Thanks, but no thanks - I love it, but not quite as much as that.

 

[cyberakuma]

I bought the chariot and it was a joy to build, I enjoyed the aesthetic of the models in the set and I have to say I am looking forward to painting this guy who came in the set, though I gave him the great weapon instead. I like throgg the most and the plastic chaos Lord is a nice peice too. I gotta say that most of the gear really ticked the boxes and all the guys I spoke to in my group had at least 1 model that they really liked from the new releases. Now for some it was only one or two but I gotta say response in my group has been pretty good. Ima looking forward to painting this chap, though using a different head and making an exciting baseView attachment 18503

how does he move? gw rants aside if someone likes a mini that's their call i have tons here that others hate the look of soit is really a case of each to their own in my opinion

my only concern is looking at his armour his arm joints are blocked in by spikes stopping any range of motion the same as the positioning with the armour plates on the legs any demon stuff i could just pass as being a weird chaotic mutation or why it doesn't look normal but this guy could never charge into battle or swing his weapon that's got to effect his use on the battlefield right?

 

[elgazzo]

i love reading through the codices and alot of the artwork and i think 'wow this looks so cool'. then i go to the gw site, look at the mini's and it's like looking at 2 different games. There's such a massive disconnect between the fluff and the mini's. mind you, some of the conversions coming out of the inq28 scene suit the fluff better than anything gw has produced for years.

 

[Kalidane]

D'accord (x2)

So much this.

Happened upon a gaming store today and saw the Dragon Ogres for the first time. Really not liking them and would not want to paint them. The old ones look much more fun.

Chaos chariot erm the rider looks like just another 'sculpted to be cast in plastic' release. There is something generically boring about most of the plastic character releases.

Thrugg or whatever I've only seen online and pricing the same as half a fantasy army from Mantic meant it was hard to see the actual model. Silly rabbits.

So my massively appealing WoC army stay with the Spearhead released in the prior edition plus a bunch of additional warriors and knights. Even more warriors is all I would like to buy from the current range.

Also I must echo sentiments regarding monsters and the existence of reaper bones. For _gamers_ why would you pay a million dollars for a monster when Reaper has a great one for twenty bucks. I'll abandon the question mark as that's looks quite rhetorical.

 

[Avelorn]

I think when you take Reaper as examples you have to realise that many of us don't consider them even an options because the majority of their ranges aren't very appealing (to us). It's not just poor for the money, like GW sometimes, but proper, non redeemable lack of pleasing aesthetics (save some klocke and garrity stuff). The brood dragon for example, mentioned earlier, I wouldn't even buy if it cost me a buck because I would never ever consider painting it. Mantic hasn't been much better for their "Warhammer" range, but they have a few sculpts that I do like (and the AoW stuff is brilliant). Game Zone similarly have some excellent and sometimes more affordable GW substitutes I think, but plagued by hit and misses and really not that less expensive overall. So say for Chaos, Would you pay the €50 for this? When you can pay €26 for this.

Lets take Mantic monsters (the few there is). £25 quids for this, GW gives you £32.50 for this. I think the price of the GW is on the expensive side and yes Metals vs plastics, but still the GW is the far better product for me. Well you could buy the Drakon as well... wait no. I hope no one ever did.

Then there's the more affordable plastics from Mantic. But it truly isn't on par with GW plastics. It's not even close. Wyrd has as perhaps the first other fantasy/sci-ficompany, apart from GW, I've seen released some great plastics recently. There could be others though that I haven't seen, but cudos to Wyrd.

Privateer press and Wyrd are much better examples. They have great games with high quality miniatures and some really beautiful sculpts. But their strengths differ from GW and I wouldn't call them cheap either even if they are more affordable then GW overall.

What GW is ridiculously expensive on is character models made in Fine cast. That's really my bottom line. Otherwise you can get decent deals in plastics, never "cheap" perhaps, but at least decent.

 

[TrystanGST]

I think when you take Reaper as examples you have to realise that many of us don't consider them even an options because the majority of their ranges aren't very appealing (to us). It's not just poor for the money, like GW sometimes, but proper, non redeemable lack of pleasing aesthetics (save some klocke and garrity stuff). The brood dragon for example, mentioned earlier, I wouldn't even buy if it cost me a buck because I would never ever consider painting it. Mantic hasn't been much better for their "Warhammer" range, but they have a few sculpts that I do like (and the AoW stuff is brilliant). Game Zone similarly have some excellent and sometimes more affordable GW substitutes I think, but plagued by hit and misses and really not that less expensive overall. So say for Chaos, Would you pay the €50 for this? When you can pay €26 for this.

Lets take Mantic monsters (the few there is). £25 quids for this, GW gives you £32.50 for this. I think the price of the GW is on the expensive side and yes Metals vs plastics, but still the GW is the far better product for me. Well you could buy the Drakon as well... wait no. I hope no one ever did.

Then there's the more affordable plastics from Mantic. But it truly isn't on par with GW plastics. It's not even close. Wyrd has as perhaps the first other fantasy/sci-ficompany, apart from GW, I've seen released some great plastics recently. There could be others though that I haven't seen, but cudos to Wyrd.

Privateer press and Wyrd are much better examples. They have great games with high quality miniatures and some really beautiful sculpts. But their strengths differ from GW and I wouldn't call them cheap either even if they are more affordable then GW overall.

What GW is ridiculously expensive on is character models made in Fine cast. That's really my bottom line. Otherwise you can get decent deals in plastics, never "cheap" perhaps, but at least decent.

The issue with GW is this - you spend upwards of $300 to build a medium sized army to play with, and then they go and change the rules on you, requiring you to buy all new rules (at $100 for the book, plus $50 for your army), and then hope you models are compatible. If not, guess it's time to pony up $400. Because in the two years they took to change the rules, they raised their prices 25%.

Sure, they can compete item for item, but at least Malifaux and Warmahordes aren't forcing you to buy all new crews every year. And even if they did, it wouldn't cost you a month's pay.

 

[Pictish Mini Painting]

The thing is (and i am playing devils advocate a bit here) no one is forcing anyone to buy new stuff.

Technically all models in the GW line from year dot can be used in any game from its system be it 40k or fantasy, and your army from 7th ed will work in 8th ed.

The main crux is if you want to be competetive, then you find to stay at the sharp end you have to buy the new shinies, and this is where most get a little chocked.

 

[Dragonsreach]

The thing is (and i am playing devils advocate a bit here) no one is forcing anyone to buy new stuff.

Exactly, GW are in the business of selling toy soldiers, doesn't mean I have to buy theirs when there are others about I prefer. ("Sushi for lunch"......No thanks, I'll do without.)

Avelorn: Hadn't seen that Drakon sculpt until now.............I see what you mean.

 

[marjedi]

i love reading through the codices and alot of the artwork and i think 'wow this looks so cool'. then i go to the gw site, look at the mini's and it's like looking at 2 different games. There's such a massive disconnect between the fluff and the mini's. mind you, some of the conversions coming out of the inq28 scene suit the fluff better than anything gw has produced for years.

What he said.....

Also while the gw stuff is getting more and more expensive with each release i would gladly pay it if the minis where getting better and better.

And i think they just need to spend a little more time on things. A days work more on the dragon ogres to beef up the low body and make the legs less pointy would have made a world of difference. Also making one of them look like he was charging and one standing partly on a rocky bluff would have added immensely to the wauv factor and appeal more to the painter crowd.

saw the new pladtic chaos lord today, and he is very impressive. The head looks better irl, and could easily replaced....but 15£ ouch. Going to pick him for somewhere at 20-30% off and enter him in an up and coming paint comp in the local gw.

 

[Pictish Mini Painting]

Feel for me, i am looking at at WoC army, circa 3k points and the bulk of the troops are trolls, cheapest is river troll plastics at £28 for 3, i need 20 so thats about 7 boxes.

whole army is about £460. although wouldnt be buying all at once it is a lot, but i am coming in cold so need all of the models.

My DW on th other hand came from sources all over and probably cost me about £200 all in

 

[Kalidane]

I think when you take Reaper as examples you have to realise that many of us don't consider them even an options because the majority of their ranges aren't very appealing (to us). It's not just poor for the money, like GW sometimes, but proper, non redeemable lack of pleasing aesthetics (save some klocke and garrity stuff). The brood dragon for example, mentioned earlier, I wouldn't even buy if it cost me a buck because I would never ever consider painting it. Mantic hasn't been much better for their "Warhammer" range, but they have a few sculpts that I do like (and the AoW stuff is brilliant). Game Zone similarly have some excellent and sometimes more affordable GW substitutes I think, but plagued by hit and misses and really not that less expensive overall. So say for Chaos, Would you pay the €50 for this? When you can pay €26 for this.

Lets take Mantic monsters (the few there is). £25 quids for this, GW gives you £32.50 for this. I think the price of the GW is on the expensive side and yes Metals vs plastics, but still the GW is the far better product for me. Well you could buy the Drakon as well... wait no. I hope no one ever did.

Then there's the more affordable plastics from Mantic. But it truly isn't on par with GW plastics. It's not even close. Wyrd has as perhaps the first other fantasy/sci-ficompany, apart from GW, I've seen released some great plastics recently. There could be others though that I haven't seen, but cudos to Wyrd.

Privateer press and Wyrd are much better examples. They have great games with high quality miniatures and some really beautiful sculpts. But their strengths differ from GW and I wouldn't call them cheap either even if they are more affordable then GW overall.

What GW is ridiculously expensive on is character models made in Fine cast. That's really my bottom line. Otherwise you can get decent deals in plastics, never "cheap" perhaps, but at least decent.

With Reaper I find there are cool individuals to paint and if I played RPGs I'd be buying by the truckload but there are plenty of sculptors whose work doesn't interest me at all.

Agree on Gamezone. The Anointed boxset is far more attractive but the price is still tough.

Mantic quality indeed are still behind (apart from the fantastic undead and new ratmen fellas). With the dragon example I wouldn't paint either of them frankly.

But: presto chango I'm in New Zealand.

The GZ anointed cost about 30% more than the GW Chaos Knights (which remain reasonable value). I like both and prefer metal by a long way so that's a close fight. If I were out to buy 20 I'd score that 1 GZ and 3 GW I think.

It's with Mantic that the numbers become stark. I guess we all know how that works. Double the UK GW price and add a topup and then compare. Doh Skeletons are $4.80 vs $1. When armies have 150 troops that adds up.

That's all still from a _gaming_ perspective. For _painters_ Mantic is of little/no interest but plenty of companies do make gorgeous models, including in resin. Happy days!

With Reaper KS almost in the mail, my 2013 spending will be terrain/scenery, Mantic, Mercs and Infinity. And the GW Vampire Counts Wight King unless I find better first. Hadn't seen that before and it's good (not finecast).

 

[TrystanGST]

The Wight King is a great fig. And GW's plastics are awesome. As I was sitting there prepping the chaos half of the dark vengeance box, I was amazed at the detail they packed into the minis - even the grunts (cultists). And finecast is a great thing if you can get one that isn't miscast. It's just a shame that they've decided to price themselves into the stratosphere.

 

[Kalidane]

The Wight King is a great fig. And GW's plastics are awesome. As I was sitting there prepping the chaos half of the dark vengeance box, I was amazed at the detail they packed into the minis - even the grunts (cultists). And finecast is a great thing if you can get one that isn't miscast. It's just a shame that they've decided to price themselves into the stratosphere.

Yeah it took me a long time to actually see the Dark Vengeance stuff in person but I was very impressed with it. Funnily enough I didn't much care for the limited edition fella so will consider buying the regular box out of the US if I find myself with too much pocket money before the June price rises. And my other cravings are sated first!