the gamer community

[Mediocrity]

This is a non argumentative statement so please take it as such. I would sincerely hope that at the B&N you were at, that no one there made a habit of flashing a knife. I agree there are several people that are not the stereotype and Otter did make reference to that as her significant other and his friends are not of that caliber. However ask a layman; what his or her perception is of a miniature gamer (Thanks to false D&D myths) and they will more than likely come back at you with the above description. Unfortunately it seems that due to the perception it has become acceptable for that type crowd to behave like that. Not all gamers are geeks, not all gamers ignore standard hygiene requirements and I will attest that few if any of the gamers I have met are stupid. However in Otters area they have embraced the genre of being all the above and worse. If someone had pulled that stunt with my wife, there would have been a police officer there within minutes to discuss with the shop owner why he had a person on his location carrying a concealed weapon. If you want to carry a weapon fine, if you carry it responsibly; your on good terms with me, if you act like the bozo in this instance it needs to be removed and maybe next time he will use both the neurons in that empty cranium to derive the thought that maybe his actions are not correct.

Originally posted by paleotaur
Oh I don\'t know, Otter. While I agree with your article and the stereotype is true, your comment about book stores caught my eye. I worked at a Barnes & Noble for almost three years, and I\'d have to agree with Flashman about this, while the majority of our customers were at least (and usually at most) civil, we got some of the worst behaved, sometimes frighteningly so, people who came in there, one wondered if they were able to read, sometimes.
I am sorry for and angered by your experience , and I truly wish I could find more people like you and your friends (guess I never had the patience to weed through the multitudes of idiots).

 

[Sturmhalo]

I wonder if some of those far from adequate individuals that hang around games stores are also the same folks who go to porn conventions and shuffle around all shy trying to get the autographs of their favourite porn stars? lol

Mind you, nothing wrong with porn! It\'s just the dirty raincoat brigade that I don\'t like.

As for folks carrying concealed weapons, well, over here in the UK that\'s a criminal offence! People who wander around with Rambo knives strapped to them or carry swords because it\'s supposedly part of some crack pot religion tend to find themselves on the wrong end of an armed response team! Sometimes with fatal consequences!

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by Flashman14
You know, people are like that in every hobby that has passionate adherants. If you think the horse crowd, or the stamp collecting folks, the train folks, the sci fi folks, the weavers, the quilters, the bridge players, book collectors - are any different then you really should think again. Any and all of those groups are filled with members who are heavy set, poor visioned, have low hair count, are unwashed.

I would disagree. The first sentence is true, but I\'d disagree with the second: they are very different. In my experience, such types do not dominate other hobbies. I\'m not sure they dominate gaming but they make up a lager percentage than in any other hobby I know of. I\'m mainly speaking up because you mentioned horses. That\'s my wife\'s thing. Both the riding groups and the model horse collecting groups we\'ve been to have had a few irritating people, but a major difference is gender. Many is the convention/show where I\'m the only male in sight. No one has ever tried to foist her expertise on me or made unwanted contact - nor towards my wife btw. There is a great difference in the way men and women act AND in the way men and women perceive the actions of others.
The fact that gaming is overwhelmingly male dominated does not help the treatment of women gamers.
Now interestingly my wife\'s and my hobbies converge in the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism - medieval reenactment group similar to a LARP without any GM or plot and based in reality). Perhaps because of the prevalence of swords and having a pretend personality, the SCA attracts many gamers. However, the SCA fosters the Romantic ideal of Chivalry, so while there are a few folks like those described in Otter\'s story, they quickly learn that such behavior is punishable in the community. I leave that as an example of a community very similar to the gamers but in which such personality types are the exception.

Oh, and Flashman, I find it interesting that you listed 4 qualities, none of which was mentioned in Otter\'s story. (Some have come up in the subsequent comments, but \"poor visioned\" and \"low hair count\"??) Of course those 4 qualities exist in every community. In the US more than 50% of adults are overweight--25% actually obese, 61% wear corrective lenses, 40% of men and 20% of women age 40 suffer hair loss. I can\'t find any general statistics on bathing (though apparently only 67% of people actually wash their hands after using a public restroom).

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by Mediocrity
If someone had pulled that stunt with my wife, there would have been a police officer there within minutes to discuss with the shop owner why he had a person on his location carrying a concealed weapon.

If you read carefully, Otter was in fact the person on the premisis carrying a concealed weapon.
In many states a Balisong is illegal concealed or not.
However, I hope that Otter was armed in no way deters her from calling police when a dangerous situation arises.

I really liked the paragraph about underwear. I used to carry a pocket knife around cause it\'s darn useful, but I now work for a government agency and wouldn\'t get it through the x-ray etc.

 

[paleotaur]

I in no way meant to imply that it is responsible or permisable to carry a weapon for the purposes of intimidation. I probably didn\'t explain how bad things could get at the book store. On two seperate occasions we had riots in the parking lot in which people were severely injured, and I was once personally threatened by two large men for not \"giving\" them store cd\'s, just to name a few instances.

 

[Tuubje]

wow, what to say, hmmm....
I\'m a gamer too (feels like a therapy group no? something like:\"my name is Filip, and i\'m a gamer...\" group says: \"HELLOOoooo FILIP\").
And a gamer in every respect, rpg, wargaming, painting, consoles and PC. I\'m 23 years old and live with my parents (opening a gamestore by the end of the year takes up a lot of cash ). I have a 1337 cs cl@n, which is pretty succesful, I game every thursday (confrontation and rag\'narok) and sometimes friday evenings (WHFB).
I have friends on the gamer side, and friends in the \"real life\". I go out to the pub on saturday, go to clubs (Antwerp nightlife rocks!!). But at heart, I\'m just a kid that refused to grow up, who just happened to stumble across a girl who cares for him. I have a job for the moment, I\'m plan on having that store and I hope to get married.... BUT I still love to play games .
I can relate your situation Otter, although I no longer experience it. I play at the gamestore and if a rules-lawyer bothers us, we just tell him to get a hike (actually we tell him he can go ***** himself, Antwerp is a lot like NY in that sense only smaller :innocent: ). I\'m not letting those creeps get under my skin anymore, I just ignore \'em. I have my mates and we have fun, that\'s all that matters.
And never mind this post, I\'m just \"coming out\" here , anything that popped into my mind i wrote down, but it\'s getting too crowded in my head right now....
Don\'t let gamers get you down, just have fun with your husband and your friends.

PS. If you need proof of my social life, I\'m the center one

 

[Otter]

Tthe knife is a holdover from my \"lonely apartment in a bad part of town\" days (the same reason I got my dog, but don\'t tell him that! ). And I\'ve been fortunate enough to have never called the cops, but police officers I\'ve talked to about carrying concealed are actually a suprisingly leinient about women and knives. This is a double standard that will probably shift in the next few years as society gets more dangerous, but as of right now they seem more willing to overlook it.

This might make no sense, but I\'ve gotten so used to carrying a knife that it suprises me when people actually don\'t have a knife or some other type of pocket tool on them. But the thing never, EVER comes out in public unless there is a box that needs opening... If anyone asks, I always tell them it\'s a beeper. As for the legality, it\'s the lady\'s 3-inch model, which is still illegal in states with blanket Balisong laws but passes as a pocketknife in all others. I like it because you can do some pretty impressive juggling tricks with a butterfly knife.

Paleotaur: I completely understand about the book store comparison: I worked at a bookshop for a year a while back. I remember this one guy, real nice-looking middle-aged man, comes up and shows me the collector\'s edition Guiness Book of World Records for 2000 (It was December 1999). We had what seemed a nice, polite conversation for a few minutes, then he screams \"How can they publish world records for 2000 when it hasn\'t happened yet!!!\" and threw the book at me. Hardcovers hurt.

- Otter
\"Never send a ferret to do a weasel\'s work\"

 

[Chrispy]

The rules here in Texas are screwed up regarding weapons. Providing you have the liscense, almost anyone can carry a concealed hand gun. However, carrying a concealed sword or knife is a no-no... ???

Also, you can shoot someone on your property (not killing them, just trying to wing them) and you won\'t get charged. They don\'t have to be doing anything, you just gotta be pissed at them.

This might be why I\'ve never played at someone\'s house before...

 

[Errex]

I remember I read on an old White Dwarf that having an artistic hobby, such as this, was considered waaay cool in Italy. Anyone cares to confirm or deny this?

 

[wyrmling_x]

Strangely enough, Chrispy, in Canada I think the shooting-people-on-your-property thing is quite the opposite (although i might be wrong); When/if you shoot a trespasser/thief/jerk/etc. on your property, and kill him, no charges can be placed against you, however if you shoot and simply maim the intruder, you can be charged with assault with a deadly weapon, EVEN IF THE PERSON WAS TRYING TO KILL YOU OR ROB YOU BLIND!!!

But anyways, gaming of any nature is generally uncommon in my rather rural community, so I\'m instantly placed in the same category as the stereotypical gamer (ie. scary, geek person). I\'ve stopped caring about this, and I\'ve also learned to ignore such scary geek people, and so now I simply have fun gaming while maintaining a semblance of a real life and all that goes with it.

Maybe we should all move to Italy...

 

[Sturmhalo]

Originally posted by Chrispy
The rules here in Texas are screwed up regarding weapons. Providing you have the liscense, almost anyone can carry a concealed hand gun. However, carrying a concealed sword or knife is a no-no... ???Also, you can shoot someone on your property (not killing them, just trying to wing them) and you won\'t get charged. They don\'t have to be doing anything, you just gotta be pissed at them.This might be why I\'ve never played at someone\'s house before...

From what I\'ve heard about Texas law it\'s pretty useful in some situations, but christ I wouldn\'t want to be a mail man or get lost whilst out walking!

If you want stupid laws just look to my home of England. Quite sensibly it\'s illegal to carry a concealed weapon. Mind you, you won\'t get far carrying an unconcealed weapon either! The best bit comes when you try and protect your home and your family. You can\'t put barbed wire or broken glass on top of walls etc coz a burglar might injure themselves breaking into your property! If you have a big dog and put up a sign saying \'big dangerous dog lives here\' as a warning, if that dog attacks an intruder you can be charged and the dog destroyed because you basically admitted you had a dangerous animal for the intention of attacking people! If someone breaks into your house you don\'t know what they might do. But if you tackle them and injure them then you can be charged with assault. Best thing to do is leave your front door open, invite drug crazed burglars into your house to steal your possessions, and stand back while they rape your wife and daughters and beat the hell out of you! British justice eh! Bet you wish you had it over in the US?

 

[Tuubje]

Originally posted by Chrispy
Also, you can shoot someone on your property (not killing them, just trying to wing them) and you won\'t get charged. They don\'t have to be doing anything, you just gotta be pissed at them.

This might be why I\'ve never played at someone\'s house before...

oh my god, I\'m never going to Texas (The word \"Tourist\" is carved on my forehead somehow). But laws of self-defence here in Belgium are quite different, just last month a jeweler got life because he shot 2 armed robbers in his own store (he did kill them but....), while they were fleeing. See, if you are in mortal danger, you can respond with force, not when they are on your property stealing.

 

[freakinacage]

i\'d just like to say - bad luck otter! i can imagine it must be pretty difficult being a woman in such a male orientated hobby. especially when most of the people who crowd my local GW store are hormonal teenagers.

How do you make a hormone? - Don\'t pay her (haha - geddit hormone/whore moan!! haha).

aaaanyway, i come from a small town and don\'t actually know any \'real\' gamers - all those who go to my local store are weird. therefore, the only way i can listen to the opinions of other painters in on the net. so i\'d just like to say - i love you guys!!! - at last i can have half decent conversations with level headed people.lol

 

[No Such Agency]

...just last month a jeweler got life because he shot 2 armed robbers in his own store (he did kill them but....), while they were fleeing. See, if you are in mortal danger, you can respond with force, not when they are on your property stealing.

Of course, the operative words in this situation were \"while they were fleeing\", right? That\'s not screwed up at all. I suspect a lot of these laws are in place to prevent people just shooting at anybody who comes onto their property. I doubt there are many judges or juries who\'d convict somebody of killing an intruder in self-defense in their own home. But shooting people who are running away? That\'s just wrath or revenge and it\'s wrong.

 

[Jeff_Hofmann]

\"while they were fleeing\", right? That\'s not screwed up at all. I suspect a lot of these laws are in place to prevent people just shooting at anybody who comes onto their property. I doubt there are many judges or juries who\'d convict somebody of killing an intruder in self-defense in their own home. But shooting people who are running away? That\'s just wrath or revenge and it\'s wrong. [/quote]

or is it cleaning out the gene pool

 

[Chrispy]

Well in some cases, shooting while fleeing could be okay. If they were already in a car, for example, shooting out the tires is a good way to slow them down (though I know this is a last resort to the police who seem to like chases so they can air them on the Fox network) or even shooting the car\'s rear. It wold be very suspious to see a car with the bumper sporting a shotgun blast fitting the description of a car that got away....

However, shooting people while running on foot is NOT cool. This is akin to shooting someone in the back. It\'s easy but cold hearted, so..

 

[vincegamer]

Self Defense

Man did this topic take a weird turn.

Sturm, we do have British Justice here in the USA, at least what you say sounds pretty much like the law here.
You can\'t put broken glass on top your walls (or bear traps in your yard or tripwire-shotguns...) or any other method of intentionally causing harm to random trespassers. There is variation by state in the USA. What you describe sounds like California law. Here\'s an example I just made up: In all states, if you invite someone to your home and you forgot to pick up the kid\'s marbles and they fall and get hurt, they can sue you. If a burglar breaks into your home and trips on said marbles, in most states he cannot sue, but in California he can. You have to take care of everyone on your property whether you invited them or not.
Self-defense law is pretty much the same everywhere (except in the Bush cabinet view) in that there has to be an \"imminent\" threat of greivous bodily harm or death. Someone running away is not creating an imminent threat to your life, neither is someone breaking into your home. Someone breaking into your home and pointing a gun around however is.

p.s. In Peru the customary practice at housewarming parties is to break your empty beer and wine bottles on top of the freshly wet-plaster covered wall.

 

[Caenem]

I worked for a Wizards of the Coast store in CT. Besides the obligatory Pokemon nights (I hated working those shifts) it didn\'t seem all that bad at first. We had some Magic Tourney\'s without any major problems. We had a large GW section in the back of the store that drew a surprising number of customers in. There are the oddballs, guys that don\'t really shower or must have never seen up-to-date clothes. But they generally were ok. Then....then came the White Wolf people. First it was what I call Vamp1. This was a group of highschool kids all around 16-18. Half of them were normal, the other half were of the unshowered kind. The normal half of Vamp1 seemed normal..as long as they were outside of my store and not talking about RPG\'s. Once they entered the store and/or thought about a role playing game, they quickly devolved into grunting fools. These are the guys that howl in the back of the store when they\'re playing werewolf. Howl at the top of their lungs...sigh. Then came Vamp2. I met a member of Vamp2 all by herself. She strolled in one night, took a glance at our White Wolf books, walked around the store, and chatted with the staff. We were all amazed. She was attractive, interested in RPG\'s, and almost normal. She was a goth chick, but we didn\'t hold that against her. Then she came in the next day with the Vamp2 group. Vamp2 strolled into our store, all wearing the blackest of black clothing they could find. Most of them had a long trailing overcoat, very black. The goth girl comes up and strikes up a conversation with me. Asking me general questions about our stock of White Wolf stuff, seeing if I could maybe clear up a few rules for her, maybe we had new scenario books she wasn\'t aware of, etc. Then some dude from Vamp2 walks up to the counter and smiles. He just smiles, and looks at me. Now...I can identify with some goth people. I can kinda dig the whole \"goth world\". But..some people take it entirely too far. The guy standing there, smiling at me like an idiot, had his canines filed. Yes...he filed them periodically in order to maintain their \"edge\". The goth girl that\'s talking to me attaches herself to Fang Man, and happily explains how he files his teeth on a regular basis. They all start messing with whatever chains they\'re wearing (goth people love chain wallets, chain jewelry, chains chains chains!). And they all devolve into scary gamers. Even the girl, that seemed somewhat intelligent..she might as well be a grunting male warrior that just caught a glimpse of the Sword of Death +10. I\'d love to actually participate in a gaming group. Working in a WotC store gave me an oppourtunity to start our own gaming group. But HOT DAMN...gaming group people have a bad tendancy to be rude, smelly, teeth-filing people.

 

[vincegamer]

Wow. That has got to be one of the dumbest things I\'ve ever heard. I suppose cavities on our canines is rare but there\'s a reason tooth enamel is the hardest substance in our bodies. What a waste.

 

[Sand Rat]

Gamers and Gamer Funk

Ok, been reading this thread for a while and finally got round to posting on it. When I was living in Dallas, I worked for a group that ran gaming at local sci-fi events, and I have to admit that for a group of gamers, we were somewhat well groomed (esp. for a group of 10 people runing 150-200 games over 3 days). The security crew was the real problem - they showed up smelling of unwashedness (long term aint got no water funk) covered with heavy perfume or aftershave - and most of them were either goths or vampire players - the only game we didn\'t run - on top of that they were rude to the guests and the other staff members, and spent most of the event trying to show their intelectual superiority to every one there - out geeking the geeks as it were. Sure, I can deal with someone who has just dropped 40 bucks to get into a 3 day event sleeping on the couches, but these guys had two or three rooms at their disposal for crashing and showering.