Drake Farstrider
New member
Yep all too often you hear about parents bitching and moaning about how it is the responsibility of the movie industry to not make violent movies, or the music industry... and so on.
The Harry Potter book has arrived!!!
- Thread starter MarkusTay
- Start date
Yep all too often you hear about parents bitching and moaning about how it is the responsibility of the movie industry to not make violent movies, or the music industry... and so on.
First post for a while but anywhy
Personnally stuff like this is all a matter of control. Harry Potter and the half blood prince is set to sell more copies alone on its first day than The Davinci code sold in its run. Thats on its first day. Harry Potter is a massivly popular series that is read by all ages. It is that popularity that frightens the churches. Through out history religion has been used to frighten people into doing what the church wanted them to do.
Priest: you there peasant, hand over all your land to the church now!
Peasant: why?
Priest: because if you dont you\'ll go to hell!
Peasant: arg! ok! OK TAKE IT!!!
or something like that...
Priests used the belief that they generated to control the masses. In medieval time priests were more powerful than kings.
However now something has come along that is more popular. It was the same with D&D and Pokemon.
Rather than listening to what the church says children are listening to something else and this frightens them. The same is happening with Harry Potter. The simple fact that magic involves is simply a handle for them to loosly grip on.
Control shifting from the totalitarian \"Obey the church or spend eternity burning in hell\" to uses your own intelligence and natural skills to try and help people.
Well no nazi is gonna stop me from reading the latest book. I\'m up there at 12:01 getting my book hot from the shelves! And an army of inquisitors and witch hunters couldnt stop me!!!
Everyone can belive what they want to belive but they should not make other people, through the use of the infuence they have, do things they dont want to do.
Now taking bets as to who the half blood prince is..
ps Harry Potter is not a wizard. He is a sorcerer
Personnally stuff like this is all a matter of control. Harry Potter and the half blood prince is set to sell more copies alone on its first day than The Davinci code sold in its run. Thats on its first day. Harry Potter is a massivly popular series that is read by all ages. It is that popularity that frightens the churches. Through out history religion has been used to frighten people into doing what the church wanted them to do.
Priest: you there peasant, hand over all your land to the church now!
Peasant: why?
Priest: because if you dont you\'ll go to hell!
Peasant: arg! ok! OK TAKE IT!!!
or something like that...
Priests used the belief that they generated to control the masses. In medieval time priests were more powerful than kings.
However now something has come along that is more popular. It was the same with D&D and Pokemon.
Rather than listening to what the church says children are listening to something else and this frightens them. The same is happening with Harry Potter. The simple fact that magic involves is simply a handle for them to loosly grip on.
Control shifting from the totalitarian \"Obey the church or spend eternity burning in hell\" to uses your own intelligence and natural skills to try and help people.
Well no nazi is gonna stop me from reading the latest book. I\'m up there at 12:01 getting my book hot from the shelves! And an army of inquisitors and witch hunters couldnt stop me!!!
Everyone can belive what they want to belive but they should not make other people, through the use of the infuence they have, do things they dont want to do.
Now taking bets as to who the half blood prince is..
ps Harry Potter is not a wizard. He is a sorcerer
Hmmmmmmmmmm....
Lets talk about Harry potter, shall we?
The half-blood prince will probably be that chubby friend of harry\'s, Neville Longbottom, the one who\'s parents were also killed by Voldemort. After all, that kid came into his own in the last book. How many people think the last book was written with making a movie in mind? A whole chapter dedicated to flying across England and nothing interesting happens? A major waste of pages, but should make for a spectacular movie scene. I think the old broad sold out, a lot of stuff was written with special effects in mind... (The fountain at the end?)
(If this thread starts getting ugly then it\'s going bye-bye)
Lets talk about Harry potter, shall we?
The half-blood prince will probably be that chubby friend of harry\'s, Neville Longbottom, the one who\'s parents were also killed by Voldemort. After all, that kid came into his own in the last book. How many people think the last book was written with making a movie in mind? A whole chapter dedicated to flying across England and nothing interesting happens? A major waste of pages, but should make for a spectacular movie scene. I think the old broad sold out, a lot of stuff was written with special effects in mind... (The fountain at the end?)
(If this thread starts getting ugly then it\'s going bye-bye)
Drake Farstrider
New member
Originally posted by Sturmhalo
Unless they\'re armed with shot guns and blow your ass to pieces as you cradle your beloved new book!
Didn\'t think of that did ya?!
Boy I am glad we don\'t live in a time where that is actually possible.
I didn\'t expect to find the Spanish inquisition.
Shawn R. L.
New member
Truely Christians have erred................They have also done a HUGE amount of good.
No Such Agency
New member
This is the Internet. Don\'t let mere ignorance hold you back
The 1/2 blood prince cannot be neville
1. His parents were not killed by voldemort, they are just insane.
2. Both his parents are wizards so he cannot be a half blood
3. Jk Rowling has said it is not neville.
All will be revieled (sp) in 24 hours...
By the way, any gun-toting inquisitors try to stop me, I\'ll just bash em on the head with the book. 672 pages...
1. His parents were not killed by voldemort, they are just insane.
2. Both his parents are wizards so he cannot be a half blood
3. Jk Rowling has said it is not neville.
All will be revieled (sp) in 24 hours...
By the way, any gun-toting inquisitors try to stop me, I\'ll just bash em on the head with the book. 672 pages...
Ebonbuddha
Active member
I know this will be ingnored, but. . . . .
I agree with Shawn. Not to mention, this is not new to gamers/fantasy buffs. Whether our souls were going to damned, or our mental well being was in jeopardy, people (Both Christian and non-christians) have been saying stuff like this for years. Chriastians aren\'t idiots. We can think for ourselves.
My mother in law is very religious. She went to see the Lord of the Ring with my father in law. My father in law enjoyed it, but she claims it was very satanic/ demonic. That Sunday at church our pastor was talking about how much he loved the movie. Then one of her friends told her Tolkien was christian.
I agree with Shawn. Not to mention, this is not new to gamers/fantasy buffs. Whether our souls were going to damned, or our mental well being was in jeopardy, people (Both Christian and non-christians) have been saying stuff like this for years. Chriastians aren\'t idiots. We can think for ourselves.
My mother in law is very religious. She went to see the Lord of the Ring with my father in law. My father in law enjoyed it, but she claims it was very satanic/ demonic. That Sunday at church our pastor was talking about how much he loved the movie. Then one of her friends told her Tolkien was christian.
Shawn R. L.
New member
People the world over, in Christian parts or not, have had NO problem finding evil and it\'s outlets wheather the Bible introduced them to the idea of an evil entity or not.
sigh...
I guess I will be out of future Mini Exchanges but it is my turn to wade into this one.
It find it odd to hear people engage in vitriolic tirades against certain religions (Catholicism in this case but Christianity in general) while those who perpetrate such vitriol would vociferously attack anyone who made similar comments about other religions, racial groups, people of sexual orientation or the like. For some reason these people feel the need to assault and debase Christianity.
I would love to have someone go through this thread and replace the words “Christian”, “Pope” and “Catholic” with names of other non-western religions or racial groups. Try it. In fact, use epithets that offend you; you will be a little frightened to hear how you would sound to a member of that particular group.
The reason I say this is because there are a large number of very intelligent people on this list and I wonder if they realize how closed minded and, well, hateful they (a few - not all) sound. In the last century there are untold numbers of wars, police actions, pogroms, gulags etc and all of them relied on singling out groups with this sort of language before the various governments could act.
I will now give you a little background on myself. I am a practicing Catholic. I attend church with my wife and three children weekly. I understand and defend evolution. I have read all the Harry Potter books at least twice (except Prisoner of Azkaban because it is very weak). I am completing my Masters degree almost 20 years after finishing my first two and a half degrees. My wife and children are of an ethnic group that many people in Canada still consider OK to use epithets about. My Mother in Law was taken from her home and family as a child and sent off to school to “educate her” in order to attempt to eradicate her people’s culture. My best friend’s father still bears the numbers on his forearms from 5 years in a concentration camp in the early 40’s.
Why do I tell you this? Because your trades about religion are tirades about real, living, breathing people, in fact a religion is nothing more than a group of people of similar beliefs. I doubt you would make these comments about my wife’s race. I doubt you would make them about friend’s religion yet, for some reason, so many are comfortable maligning my particular creed.
I don’t want to make you stop doing what you are doing - I have neither the right nor the inclination. I just wanted you to know how you sound.
I guess I will be out of future Mini Exchanges but it is my turn to wade into this one.
It find it odd to hear people engage in vitriolic tirades against certain religions (Catholicism in this case but Christianity in general) while those who perpetrate such vitriol would vociferously attack anyone who made similar comments about other religions, racial groups, people of sexual orientation or the like. For some reason these people feel the need to assault and debase Christianity.
I would love to have someone go through this thread and replace the words “Christian”, “Pope” and “Catholic” with names of other non-western religions or racial groups. Try it. In fact, use epithets that offend you; you will be a little frightened to hear how you would sound to a member of that particular group.
The reason I say this is because there are a large number of very intelligent people on this list and I wonder if they realize how closed minded and, well, hateful they (a few - not all) sound. In the last century there are untold numbers of wars, police actions, pogroms, gulags etc and all of them relied on singling out groups with this sort of language before the various governments could act.
I will now give you a little background on myself. I am a practicing Catholic. I attend church with my wife and three children weekly. I understand and defend evolution. I have read all the Harry Potter books at least twice (except Prisoner of Azkaban because it is very weak). I am completing my Masters degree almost 20 years after finishing my first two and a half degrees. My wife and children are of an ethnic group that many people in Canada still consider OK to use epithets about. My Mother in Law was taken from her home and family as a child and sent off to school to “educate her” in order to attempt to eradicate her people’s culture. My best friend’s father still bears the numbers on his forearms from 5 years in a concentration camp in the early 40’s.
Why do I tell you this? Because your trades about religion are tirades about real, living, breathing people, in fact a religion is nothing more than a group of people of similar beliefs. I doubt you would make these comments about my wife’s race. I doubt you would make them about friend’s religion yet, for some reason, so many are comfortable maligning my particular creed.
I don’t want to make you stop doing what you are doing - I have neither the right nor the inclination. I just wanted you to know how you sound.
QuietiManes
New member
Uh...yeah...and that is sick IMO. What kind of f\'in game is that to play? Besides which, how can God be all knowing and not know how far Isaac will go? Oh conveniently God cant see our choices with our free will...pfft. And God only helps those who help themselves. So if I do it myself I\'ll get it done. Wow, thanks God! Come again!
I dont really want to get into a religious debate because I\'ll come off looking like an ignorant agry hater but responses that go in circles and state proof that is in complete opposition to the point you\'re making is really one of the biggest problems I have with religion. So in short, I dont see where your response was going Philologus.
And for the record, Love doesnt = Sacrifice. You may be willing to sacrifice things for someone you love, but clearly I\'m confused by you. Unless beside Love in the dictionary it says \"see sacrifice\" and beside Sacrifice it says \"see love\"...or maybe the dictionary is wrong...made by the devil...etc...???
Switch out Christian with just about any other number of people you could possibly find a way to group together under a name of commonality and that quote would still work. So, it\'s another one I dont quite understand I guess. * The guy beside me has an \"I\'m with stupid.\" shirt on \"( *
Aha...ok, fair enough. Generalizations are bad. You make a great point. However, in my defense, I\'ve yet to meet anyone that I generalized about that \"broke the mold\" so to speak. Many have seemed nice, smart and all that at the start, but you sit down and ask them simple direct questions or sit back and watch what they do and eventually they fell off my good side.
There seem to be quite a few posters here who might be the types to break my stereotypes. The site probably attracts the sort of people that would. I mean we\'re playing with little ungodly toys and all, so right there they\'re breaking away from the \"establishment\" some what. Too bad we\'re all so far apart outside the net. Might be nice to have a game or something with someone who could tempt me away from the dark side I\'ve chosen. Let go of my hate...nevah!lol
I know I\'m probably offending some people with my posts in this thread and I appologize but I\'m just real anti-religion these days it seems.
@ JimG:
Why would this remove you from future miniature exchanges?
I\'m neither agreeing nor disagreeing with any statement you\'ve made. I was raised Catholic, myself, though I\'m definitely non-practising, now, for myself, but that\'s a tale for another day.
My own personal belief is actually more along the lines of Rufus\' statement in the movie, Dogma... and I actually thought that way long before I saw the movie was released....
Belief is sometimes too strong a thing.
But having a good idea is safe.
Are there people who hate the catholics? Yes.
Are there people who hate the blacks? Yes.
Jews? Definitely. We\'ve had a rash of anti-semitism right here in Toronto, over the last year.
One of the biggest problems that we, as human beings have, is giving things labels. And they aren\'t always good ones.
Kyke, spic, wop, dago, nigger, mick, chink, nip, dyke, faggot, queer-boy, and thousands of others... I could list a lot more if I really wanted to, but I\'m not going to. What\'s the point? They\'re labels, and they\'re addressed at large groups of people, usually because of fear.
Fear of what? The unknown, of course.
We don\'t understand said group of people, so they get lumped in with their labels.
I\'m a 6\' tall, blonde haired, blue-eyed man of Irish/czech descent, born in Canada. I shave my head bald. I\'ve been accused of being a skin-head, an aryan (sp?), and all that kind of B.S. Why? Because of how I look. I wear blue jeans, t-shirts, and heavy boots (not Doc Martens.. can\'t afford them) a lot of the time. I \'look\' like the stereo-typed skin-head much of the time.
And yes, I\'ve had to put up with that particular label for a long time. And it isn\'t who I am. I shave my head because I look better without my hair (which tends to grow straight out from my head). I wear blue-jeans and t-shirts because, face it, they\'re damned comfortable. I wear work-boots much of the time because I am often called upon to move heavy things, and most of the jobs I\'ve had in my life have involved heavy lifting. Dropping things on toes without steel protection is more pain than I feel like dealing with.
This fear of the unknown is man-kind\'s worst enemy, in my opinion. It can be applied to people of colour, people of different religions, and even, as we\'re seeing here, to the text of books we aren\'t familiar with.
Here, in these forums, we express our opinions, openly, honestly, sometimes with a small degree of amusement, sometimes, yes, even with a degree of hostility.
The point is, even those posts that become hostile, to whatever degree, are still, mostly, respectful. As you said, there are a great many exceptionally intelligent people that post here, and that intelligence can lend weight to their words, because they have earned a degree of respect for it. But does that make them right about what they think?
Not necessarily. We are all very well aware that we are entitled to our own opinions, our own beliefs (or ideas), and our own lives.
Label me however you want. I know who I am, and I quite like me. My wife quite likes me. My friends quite like me.
People that don\'t like me.... *shrug* There\'s probably lots of them. That\'s their loss.... but that\'s just my opinion.
---
Jeez, I talk a lot, sometimes....
Why would this remove you from future miniature exchanges?
I\'m neither agreeing nor disagreeing with any statement you\'ve made. I was raised Catholic, myself, though I\'m definitely non-practising, now, for myself, but that\'s a tale for another day.
My own personal belief is actually more along the lines of Rufus\' statement in the movie, Dogma... and I actually thought that way long before I saw the movie was released....
Belief is sometimes too strong a thing.
But having a good idea is safe.
Are there people who hate the catholics? Yes.
Are there people who hate the blacks? Yes.
Jews? Definitely. We\'ve had a rash of anti-semitism right here in Toronto, over the last year.
One of the biggest problems that we, as human beings have, is giving things labels. And they aren\'t always good ones.
Kyke, spic, wop, dago, nigger, mick, chink, nip, dyke, faggot, queer-boy, and thousands of others... I could list a lot more if I really wanted to, but I\'m not going to. What\'s the point? They\'re labels, and they\'re addressed at large groups of people, usually because of fear.
Fear of what? The unknown, of course.
We don\'t understand said group of people, so they get lumped in with their labels.
I\'m a 6\' tall, blonde haired, blue-eyed man of Irish/czech descent, born in Canada. I shave my head bald. I\'ve been accused of being a skin-head, an aryan (sp?), and all that kind of B.S. Why? Because of how I look. I wear blue jeans, t-shirts, and heavy boots (not Doc Martens.. can\'t afford them) a lot of the time. I \'look\' like the stereo-typed skin-head much of the time.
And yes, I\'ve had to put up with that particular label for a long time. And it isn\'t who I am. I shave my head because I look better without my hair (which tends to grow straight out from my head). I wear blue-jeans and t-shirts because, face it, they\'re damned comfortable. I wear work-boots much of the time because I am often called upon to move heavy things, and most of the jobs I\'ve had in my life have involved heavy lifting. Dropping things on toes without steel protection is more pain than I feel like dealing with.
This fear of the unknown is man-kind\'s worst enemy, in my opinion. It can be applied to people of colour, people of different religions, and even, as we\'re seeing here, to the text of books we aren\'t familiar with.
Here, in these forums, we express our opinions, openly, honestly, sometimes with a small degree of amusement, sometimes, yes, even with a degree of hostility.
The point is, even those posts that become hostile, to whatever degree, are still, mostly, respectful. As you said, there are a great many exceptionally intelligent people that post here, and that intelligence can lend weight to their words, because they have earned a degree of respect for it. But does that make them right about what they think?
Not necessarily. We are all very well aware that we are entitled to our own opinions, our own beliefs (or ideas), and our own lives.
Label me however you want. I know who I am, and I quite like me. My wife quite likes me. My friends quite like me.
People that don\'t like me.... *shrug* There\'s probably lots of them. That\'s their loss.... but that\'s just my opinion.
---
Jeez, I talk a lot, sometimes....
QuietiManes
New member
Yeah, but you talk words good. :bouncy::bouncy::bouncy:
Got to agree with Naukhel\'s entire post
When there is so much sh*t in the world and on the news, especially with the london bombings and the fact they were all suicide bombers and three born in Britain. You\'d think people would be pleased kids and adults were reading a book like Harry Potter. Yes it has magic in but IMHO so does the Bible, raising the dead, walking on water, the fishes and loaves but, they are called miracles instead of magic so it\'s ok ???
HP is has a theme of standing up to evil and to do the right thing, it shows kids about friendship and loyalty, how can it be bad.
When there is so much sh*t in the world and on the news, especially with the london bombings and the fact they were all suicide bombers and three born in Britain. You\'d think people would be pleased kids and adults were reading a book like Harry Potter. Yes it has magic in but IMHO so does the Bible, raising the dead, walking on water, the fishes and loaves but, they are called miracles instead of magic so it\'s ok ???
HP is has a theme of standing up to evil and to do the right thing, it shows kids about friendship and loyalty, how can it be bad.
Avelorn
Sven Jonsson
Very interesting discussion. It is another interesting fact that discussions on this forum often tend to be of a higher level then many political and philosophical forums I have seen.
Why are prejudice so hard to get rid of? Because of some form of necessity, I\'m afraid. The brain saves alot of energy placing people in categories. And it always tightens a group of people to have other people to put the blame on. Ever heard of the \"evil boss\" phenomena that tightens the bonds of the employes? Therefore it is most important to always evaluate your own prejudices. I see myself as a, modern, unprejudiced man. But I still label people.
But there is a controvercy to all of this. There are reasons for the prejudices about people. It has it offspring from that our own identity also reins from a group identity and cultural identities. It is very important to understand that even though we are all equals in worth, we aren\'t the same. It isn\'t a coincidense that I seem to share some vital opinions that many other people from my cultural upbringing. It is the definition of right and wrong, good/evil in these kinds of matters that leads to dangerous prejudices.
EDIT* Forgot to add my point. And If we\'re not allowed to speak of differences a dialogue with racists and prejudiced people are impossible.
But even though there are some differences between different groups of people. The difference between individuals seem to overshadow those by far. And most of all, the things that unites us all are far greater that those separating us.
The problem, the danger in all religion is doing things for \"a higher cause\" Through a religion, or an ideology in the case of nazi germany and communistic Soviet, people can do things they wouldn\'t do in a normal day situation because they doing it for a \"greater good\". Sure it is barbaric to butcher muslims, but we were trying to save their souls. Converting them to christianity etc. And who decides this higher cause and the means by which it can be reached? the interpreter of the Bible or the Koran? The interpretors of Marx\'s writings or a dictator?
I therefor accept no authority in my religious beliefs. It is a relationship between myself and God and I will accept no sacrifice, of any other human being for my beliefs, except my own.
Why are prejudice so hard to get rid of? Because of some form of necessity, I\'m afraid. The brain saves alot of energy placing people in categories. And it always tightens a group of people to have other people to put the blame on. Ever heard of the \"evil boss\" phenomena that tightens the bonds of the employes? Therefore it is most important to always evaluate your own prejudices. I see myself as a, modern, unprejudiced man. But I still label people.
But there is a controvercy to all of this. There are reasons for the prejudices about people. It has it offspring from that our own identity also reins from a group identity and cultural identities. It is very important to understand that even though we are all equals in worth, we aren\'t the same. It isn\'t a coincidense that I seem to share some vital opinions that many other people from my cultural upbringing. It is the definition of right and wrong, good/evil in these kinds of matters that leads to dangerous prejudices.
EDIT* Forgot to add my point. And If we\'re not allowed to speak of differences a dialogue with racists and prejudiced people are impossible.
But even though there are some differences between different groups of people. The difference between individuals seem to overshadow those by far. And most of all, the things that unites us all are far greater that those separating us.
The problem, the danger in all religion is doing things for \"a higher cause\" Through a religion, or an ideology in the case of nazi germany and communistic Soviet, people can do things they wouldn\'t do in a normal day situation because they doing it for a \"greater good\". Sure it is barbaric to butcher muslims, but we were trying to save their souls. Converting them to christianity etc. And who decides this higher cause and the means by which it can be reached? the interpreter of the Bible or the Koran? The interpretors of Marx\'s writings or a dictator?
I therefor accept no authority in my religious beliefs. It is a relationship between myself and God and I will accept no sacrifice, of any other human being for my beliefs, except my own.
Sorry shawn, shouldn\'t have went there. I was trying to make a joke.
I wasn\'t attacking the Bible; in fact, I have a copy on my night table right next to my bed. I was simply poking fun at the Pope because he is afraid that Harry Potter might \'introduce\' kids to witchcraft. By that same set of logic then kids shouldn\'t read the Bible. It was a jab at the Pope, not the Bible.
A jab I shouldn\'t have made. I\'m of Irish/German and Estonian decent (with a smidge of Scottish and Italian). Most Epithets could be applied to me and my family. My wife is Jewish, and all four of my boys had Briss\'s, not baptisms. The ceremonies are very similar in that they both dedicate the child to God. Since I\'m pretty certain Jews and Christian worship the same God (actually, everyone worships the same God, they just interpret him differently) I figured he wouldn\'t mind. My four boys are Jews, my wife\'s a Jew, My one sister\'s husband was a Moslem Arab. My other brother-in law was black and now my sis divorced him for a Pueto Rican guy. My mother was born a Lutheran and my Father a Catholic. Neither practice their faiths, but my dad now considers himself a Rosacrucian (it\'s an Astrology thing).
It would surprise most people to know that I am born-again, but I haven\'t stepped foot inside of a house of worship since I was 20. I believe strongly in my faith, but I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ORGANIZED RELIGION. It may further surprise people to know I wanted to be a minister, but was so disillusioned by the people I looked up to that I turned from my church. I tried others, but it was much the same thing, people judging other people\'s \'goodness\' and faith. They have no right to judge anyone! There is only one being in the universe who has the right to judge me, and I\'m hoping that day is still waaaay off. lol
No one should ever be hurt by words, they are only sounds uttered from a temporary flesh shell. They are meaningless. Words can only do harm if YOU empower them.
I didn\'t mean to Pope-bash, I have explained TWICE already that I was just trying to draw attention to the Harry Potter novel. Only fourteen more hours...
