THE LAST U.K. GAMES DAY......EVER.....GOOD ONE AND ALL !

vincenti

Member
This my fifth games day is my last U.k. games day .I have met so many of you great people up there over the past 5 years I wanted to set the record straight as to why I am leaving this particular arena of model making.

Firstly it has nothing to do with sour grapes or not doing well, I have won something every year I have gone .Its is however all to do with the system!

As I have said with boring regularity on this site I originally come from the parallel universe of Military Modelling ,In that small and often petty world I am a \"world master\" and an International judge.My experience in figures runs into decades ( please forgive me if I sound arrogant ,or like some sort of Yoda figure)but I feel I should qualify my reasons by validating my opinions with letting you know I have a lot of experince in the figure making/painting world.
I also dont want this to degenerate into another G.W. rant /bash either.

So this is why I am going( at last ! I hear you sigh).I wholeheartedly disagree with the judging system used at U.k,G.Ds.
All the military modelling shows around the world I know of have ditched the first 3 past the post system, .They now give Golds for a standard of excellence,silvers for the next level down and so on. WHY, you ask!Because we realised the standards are so high ,the talent so great, to pick 1 gold ,1 silver ,1 bronze was a joke.When the art work is so awesome and you try and pick out just 3 winners negative judging takes place.
(I.E. pesonal preferance,styles acceptable to the judge,favourite periods ,races,even colours.Or at its worst the pushiest judge with the biggest mouth ends up declaring which is the winner),all these things begin to creep in.
As you can begin to realise this does not really do JUSTICE to the artists in question.


Know comes the most controversial part,G.W. has, as the show organisers and a buisiness, serious problems hosting and funding a figure competition fairly.Ultimately they cannot encourge this as an Art form (Creative,Imaginative) because the winners HAVE ,I repeat ,HAVE to be Identifiable G.W, products.
This means bridling and narrowing what is allowed to be seen as a \"WINNER\".
You cannot encourage fantasy Art which by its very nature is about Imagination and pushing the boudaries ,then only pick winners that symbolise the Image your company wants to promote.
The 2 things are in direct conflict with each other .You are not really encouraging an Art form ,you are manipulating it for your own financial ends! Which surprise, surprise is all about money!::cry:
I am not trying to make G.W out to be some evil buisiness empire ,its just the way it has to be for them as a Buisiness. When money talks,honour walks!
I wrote to them a couple of years back explaining the \"Open System,\" of judging ..Going into detail as to how this would encourge the art form and in turn got a very polite brush off letter back. :(

So as you can appreciatte I cannot honestly support this system any longer.

Add to that the fact I am one of the judges at Euromilitaire who has lobbied for a fantasy class to be introduced,(which has now been added.)You can see the only decent thing for me to do is vote with my feet;)
Euro is also a weekend event in Folkestone ,so lends itself to more socialising with fellow Hobbiests, another thing that 6 hours at the N,E,C doesnt really facillitate.
So its ......so long ,,,farewell ,,,,,aufveidersein,,,GOODBYE :D

P.S. I gave away my statues because as a 47 year old family man I think they are a bit gross and childish(not to mention cheap).

GOD BLESS ..................Adie \"VINCENTI\"Bay :D
 
G

Ghey Boy

Guest
LoL, ok. I can agree with some of what you say, although I\'d fully support GW\'s decision to have a significant part of the judging come down to 40k/WFB \"theme\" (and why not? I\'m sure that WWII painting comps require all entrants to stick to the WWII theme. I hate seeing non-40kish entries placing in the 40k single/squad category). I agree with the open system though.

I hope you\'ll continue to upload your historical and military pics on this site, Cheers.
 

stubert

New member
thats a shame i was hoping to meet you (and others) at next years GD. and i do understand what your saying, so dose this mean your not going to touch eny GW models?

cos i allways looked for new models, and loved everyone.

well enyhoo good luck for the future, and hope you dont go from CMON.....stu.....
 

alexholmen

New member
Soo true! I totally agree with you - wait a few years when the prestige of fantasy will have risen in the open comp. there will be no interest in GD anymore - hopefully soon! Best wishes //ALEX
 
Hej Adi... I totally understand what you are talking about... It makes totally sense...:cry:...

Sad that you are not attending any GD any more... really, really sorry to hear that, because we get to know in France and you are such a nice guy...:)... But, as you said, GD is not the Center of the Universe, not the only thing to do if you like miniatures... by far not...

So... at least we will meet at World Expo again, until then I hope you do Twice as much things (Historical, maybe stick to your roots...?...:)...)...

It is a very noble thing to give these Crap Resin Demons away... After gathering one of each color they are not too important at all...;)...
 

tidoco2222

Active member
Sad to see you go mate, I have been inspired by your works on many occasions. I do agree with the points you have made but can see little changing in the future as you say \"when money talks honour walks\" that is true in so many walks of life.
I hope to get down to Euro sometime and meet you and other fellow hobbyists.
Good luck mate and keep showing us your wonderful works whatever route you take.
 

matty1001

New member
You were absolutely fantastic to talk to and a great bloke! The demon still has me laughing, they way you handed it to me was so off the cuff and random lol

Shame I won\'t see you at another GD, I agree with pretty much everything you say, but I hope to see you at other events in the future! Shame you couldn\'t come to Paris next month.
 

airhead

Coffin Dodger / Keymaster
Addie, it sounds like the difference between a system that rewards excellence vs. a system that demands a winner.

Winners are very tough to judge in a very subjective catagory. Take the same pack of minis to another comp with a different set of judges and the results would probably be different.

I hear you about the \"Must be recognisable as GW product\" bits. Sometimes that makes it very tough to be original.

GW\'s loss is the historical\'s gain in this case. (aren\'t they the same weekend for some odd reason?)
 

demonherald

New member
A real shame but also I agree with you...After talking to you on the day I understand where you are coming from with the inability to push the art form versus the creation of a GW model>.. As a an of GW and the IP I have always seen GD for what it is.. A competition in painting Citadel Miniatures...
When we were talking in the hotel and couldn\'t really think of many independent comps in the UK which is something we need more of but I guess GW\'s dominance over here from theearly days has led to their shows dominating .
After the talk about Euro and the Fantasy categories it is definitely something I will be attending in the future to push the envelope of developing my Fantasy painting and modelling .Which strangely I see as different to my GW painting.. As long as this doesn\'t mean that you dissappear merely spread your wings and push the boundaries even further..good luck and god bless whatever you do and stay in touch.
 

squidders

New member
I too understand where you\'re coming from... and not just because i\'m a kiss-arse either lol

Next year, I hope to be attending Salute again, as well as EuroMilitaire in Folkstone and maybe even Gencon Indy... there is also a GenCon UK (In Reading I think) but I have other things on this year.

I believe all of the above allow you to enter GW/Citadel minis if you like?

Lastly... has anyone ever converted a demon award?
 

mickc22

Granddad!
here! here!
I went to Euromilitaire this year, on Sat, only took about 50 mins to get there. No being jossled about or getting up at stupid O\'clock

Plenty of different manufacturers there, I resisted the temptation of more lead and opted for the printed word (thanks for the heads up Rob), even had my book signed by Richard Windrow

Had a leisurely wander around the entries and some real close up looks
at some spectacular models,
Do you know what was best of show Adie?

I quite liked the germans diving for the champagne, and trying to keep the sharks at bay

I had a really enjoyable stress free day
 
Hey Adrian,

Sorry to hear you wont be in attendance anymore at GD\'s but I can fully understand your issues with the way they are rum. I guess this just means Ill have to track you down at other Non GW events. Hey check your email too..just sent you a message-jeff
 

LouW

New member
Hi Adrian, I was shocked when u told me this at the end collecting the minis. I\'ll be trying out the open system at Ravage next month and will report in.

Does EuroM always coincide with GD UK?
 

Talonicus

New member
Well we talked a bit at GD Adrian and I have to agree with all your points.
You should see me at euromilitaire next year and maybe paris aswell.

Keep doing the fantasy stuff. With plenty of practise you may get good at it.

lol

:p
 

hubbabubba

New member
Well, I\'ve never been to a GD, and never really fancied it, but what you say makes sence.
Looking forward to your next work on here anyway.
keep on trucking
 

jahminis

New member
i said the same thing about the formula in the thread that liz started, and people jumped on me...games day is more of a marketin\' scheme than a true paintin\' contest...i still stick by those words...figurin\' out the formula is as important as doin\' a wicked paintjob...i\'m still tryin\' to get the formula dialed in so i can achieve that long time goal of bringin\' home a slayer sword...hasn\'t happened yet, and i\'m damn proud of my daemon, so i\'ll keep pluggin\' away...once i get a sword, there will no longer be a need to attend games day...
so anyone who has achieved there goals, and then walked away, has the right idea(especially with the regular rise in ticket prices)...there are so many other aspects of the hobby, and so many other paintin\' competitions, to concentrate on...

cheers
jah
 

Trevor

Brushlicker and Freak!
Some of these issues is why I quite like the current Oz GD judging, where they supposedly concentrate on the painting. Thus, you are free to convert if you like (staying within GW imagery) but you aren\'t judged on the conversion, but the painting of the mini.

Of course quite how the judges seperate the sculpt and the paintjob I\'m not sure, but I like the idea of GD being a competition of just painting GW minis.

Then of course you need something else as well, a competition for all minis from all companies, with no restrictions to allow this artistic freedom. There is talk of trying to setup a national comp like this in Oz, we\'ll see what happens.
 
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