The Matrix Reloaded

[Corvus]

For those of you who have seen the movie: a small poll. IF YOU HAVEN\'T SEEN IT YET, STOP READING NOW (SPOILERS)!

Mainly there are two theories about \"The Real World\". The first is that it IS the real world, and the second is that it is part of the Matrix...

I think the second theory explains a lot: for example how Neo could stop the Sentinels and see future things (Trinity\'s accident) in the Matrix in his dreams.

So what\'s your opinion?

 

[Chern Ann]

Well, according to the Engineer, Neo is a human construct designed by the machines to repopulate Zion after their regular purges of the city. He was uploaded with a significant amount of info to reconstitute the Zion mainframe by the Engineer.

Assuming that the Real World is the real world, he could have stopped the Sentinels by somehow making use of his machine interfaces (the plugs all over his body) in a way that no other human knows how to, thanks to the info uploaded into him by the Engineer. Alternatively, since he\'s specially designed by the machines, he may be implanted with something else that allows him to control/shutdown Sentinels which he is only just learning to use.

Or, the Sentinels have very very firm instructions not to manhandle the One in anyway, so they can\'t get close once they identify him and are forced to shutdown (so no points for Neo raising his hand and fainting).

As far as seeing the future goes, I don\'t see how the Real World, being another layer in the Matrix, would assist him in predicting events within the bottom level?

Top -> Real \"real world\"
Middle -> False \"real world\"
Bottom -> Matrix

Neo is already one level removed from the Matrix. Having another level influencing him still doesn\'t explain why he could see the future.

Considering that the previous 6 Neos could get in to see the Engineer, presumably 6 other human companions (standing in the place of Trinity) must have died in order to shut down the power plant. He might have \"remembered\" this, the only difference now is that the person who dies is someone he loves, whereas the previous 6 Neos did not love the person who fell out the window and got shot.

Finally, I really doubt there\'ll be a 3rd layer. It\'s already been done in the 13th floor.

 

[Corvus]

Then how do you explain this guy (I forgot his name, sorry) being \"posessed\" by Agent Smith in the Matrix, and changing his behaviour (knife scene) in the real world? There is obviously a link between the real world and the matrix which doesn\'t only work with Neo.

Another question: does anybody know what the spoon is all about? In the first movie an orphan was playing with it in the matrix (\"there is no spoon\" ), but in the second movie someone gives another spoon to Neo (is this the same spoon? it also looks very weathered).

 

[kittykat23uk]

It was a gift from the same orphan to remind Neo of how to manipulate the Matrix (things aren\'t real and therfore you can bend the matrix to your will). I think that the Real life is actually real and not just a part of the Matrix.

However, if you really want to get into the whole true meaning of the Matrix and stuff then this essay makes for a good read:

http://webpages.charter.net/btakle/matrix_reloaded.html

Well anyway, I\'m sure all will be revealed in the next film - Roll on November!!

Regards

Kat

 

[freakinacage]

wow, this is all rather complicated! i think i may just wait for the next film before my brain starts to dribble out of my ears. will have to get 2 and 3 on dvd and watch them about a hundred times in order to figure whats going on!!

 

[Chern Ann]

It\'s a concept borrowed from the 13th Floor, and was partially covered in the first Matrix. Everyone that is connected to the Matrix is part of the system, ie every person\'s brain is just an extension of the Matrix\'s computing power (hence your body image is the same as your physical body, you determine your own shape in the Matrix). So (apparently, from the comic) when the Agents take over people, the original person doesn\'t disappear, their personalities are literally overwritten with those of the Agent\'s.

So when Smith takes over a human being, it\'s literally a computer virus entering the person\'s brain and overwriting it with a copy of Smith. Whether there\'s any vestige of the \"original\" person will probably be revealed in the final film. For all intents and purposes, the person walking around IS Agent Smith.

This was also handled in the 13th Floor, quite an interesting film if you get to see it.

 

[supervike]

must see...

I have got to see that 13th floor, sounds very interesting.

I have to admit that I was a little confused when Neo was speaking with the engineer guy about the different \'matrixes\', but after reading your explaination, I will have to admit, I AM A LOT CONFUSED!

I guess all will be revealed.

 

[Corvus]

Yes, the scene with the Architect was quite difficult to understand... But it prooves that Neo is some sort of restart button, a built-in test of the system. Depending on the door he chooses the matrix resets (like with the previous versions).

 

[Chrispy]

Doesn\'t anyone find it strange that the short films in the Animatrix explain more of the films than the films do?

For example, in \"Kid Story\" it explains that young kid who\'s always idolizing Neo.

\"The Second Reinassance\" also explains the history of how the machines took control of the earth. Except one little thing is nagging me: when man waged war on the machines in the beginning, they used nukes but supposedly that didn\'t affect them.... True, sheilded metal things are not affected by radiation and can go through an explosion, but an atom bomb causes an Electro Magnetic Pulse or EMP.... It seemed to work on them in the first film.

\"Final Flight of the Osiris\" just tells how the message got to Zion.. it\'s worth seeing if you buy the Animatrix, but I didn\'t want to sit through that crappy \"Dreamcatcher\"...

The scary part is all these films could just be a training simulation...

 

[Vidja]

Sheesh... I really, REALLY hope the Wachoskis know where they\'re going, and will be kind enough to tell us in the next movie...

I was so excited about Matrix II, but after actually watching it... I don\'t know.
The Neo/Architect dialogue was interesting (though confusing as hell), but that was all... the rest of the movie was pretty much a replica of the first one. Neo\'s far more powerful that Agent Smith now, there was no need to have him beating dozens of Smiths around for us to get the point. And Trinity\'s death was really not much of a shock, since Neo\'s got the resurrection power anyway...

Well, about the poll, now. I, too, had the impression that the \"real life\" is just another layer of the Matrix... so my vote goes to that option!

 

[frenchkid]

I was and still am a very very big matrix fan. The first movie was awsome and had everything right. And I have to say that I am very disapointed by Matrix II. It\'s not not entirely bad and it is style a good movie but it is far from the first one. They turned it into a comercial movie, hence the fight scenes every 5 secondes, and actually the only phylosophical ( sry for the spelling) part of the movie is when neo talks to the oracle. No you might tell me that the part with the architect ot the merovingien is complex but actually if you watch the movie a couple of times like have done you\'ll noticed that the architect just uses very complex sentences to say very simple things. That is another way to make the movie look like a good movie in the eye of the publique. they come out feeling like they understood nothing and feel like the matrix II was a very smart movie. Has for the agent smith taking over the body of the guy in the matrix you have to imagine the brain of that guy beeing a computer and agent smith beeing a virus (wich he is), once the virus gets into the computer it controls it complitely, thus taking control of the body. The fight scene between neo and the multiple agent smith is not there to show that neo is stronger than agent smith but to show the threat that agent smith poses to the matrix, the matrix dosn\'t controle him and neo can\'t beat him, so he is a real threat, that is actually on of the main point of the 2nd part of the movie.
And if you want to read essays about the Matrix go to this site: http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/
you\'ll have to look around cuz I can\'t give a link directly to the articles, but go in the matrix part, then press news, then look on the left and scrolle until you find a part called philosophy. I especially like the one called \"what\'s so bad about living in the matrix\" Well hope I didn\'t bore you to much

 

[frenchkid]

hummmmm... try this link maybe it\'ll bring you directly to the articles
http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_cmp/new_phil_fr_pryor.html

 

[silverandblackattack]

\"They Live\" is a better movie

I will not see the Matrix sequel. After hearing how \"great\" the Matrix was, I saw it on video and it BLOWS! The goal in life is to karate fight in slow motion. Wow! Xena has way better fight scenes. Also, the story is a rip off of \"They Live\". It is a much better movie!!!:flame:

 

[Chrispy]

Originally posted by silverandblackattack
I will not see the Matrix sequel. After hearing how \"great\" the Matrix was, I saw it on video and it BLOWS! The goal in life is to karate fight in slow motion. Wow! Xena has way better fight scenes. Also, the story is a rip off of \"They Live\". It is a much better movie!!!:flame:

Uh huh.. a movie about aliens controling the earth with secret messages gave the idea of machines controling a post apocalyptic future... And Pokemon is a rip of of Transformers..

 

[Micha]

You think too much, guys

Oh man, i think i shouldn´t stay on this site for so long ´cause you´re all so much more intelligent... just fun; anyway, i think you take the matter just too seriously, the Matrix was and action/sf movie and so is Reloaded. Action movie means for me: open scull and take brain out. So please stop searching for philosophy, logic or even SENSE where there is none and where any of those would do harm to a good move; perhaps all of you know the cheap Michael Dudikoff /Dolph Lundgren /Hulk Hogan films. They´re cheap B-movie crap - right? Now take Terminator, Demolition Man, Matrix, Mission Impossible or an other good, solid movie - they´re just as brainless and the first ones, just with better actors (imagine Arnie compared to Dudikoff ), better effects, and more cool stuff (martial arts, car demolition, sword choreography etc. ). Action/sf is about kicking butt and looking cool at the same time - think of \'Blade\' .Matrix is the same cathegory, good action, good effects and what looks like a story. As soon as you accept it, you´ll love both Matrix I and II equally, like I do

 

[No Such Agency]

I\'m going to have to go with:

1. The Real World (w. Zion) is real.

2. Neo can stop Sentinels because he\'s somehow connected with the Machines in a non-spooky manner (i.e. technologically). This enhanced connection may be a result of his visit with the Engineer.

3. When an Agent possesses a person, they do so temporarily and the person doesn\'t die. There\'s no evidence for or against this, but I think the Machines would set it up that way simply to minimize the loss of perfectly good coppertops.

4. Agent Smith\'s \"Real World\" possession of the dude\'s body is some special ability Smith has gained due to being renegade. Other Agents cannot do this, if they could they would have already, as a weapon against the Zionites.

While the Matrix movies are in many ways \"glossy\" action flicks, with lots of eye-candy and karate, I firmly believe that the makers are trying to produce intelligent film as well. However, I find it funny that the movies are seen by some as some kind of philosophical revelation, when they\'re really just clever and thought-provoking syntheses of a number of previous philosophies and theologies. The main advantage of this is that the thinking movie-goer does not groan and cringe every seven seconds as the muscle-bound bonehead hero blasts his way through another implausible situation. Neo and co. use their minds as much as their kung-fu; in fact until Neo came along, the kung-fu was just a way for one person to stall an agent while their mates got away. He was the first to ever win that fight.

 

[wyrmling_x]

Just an \"action movie\"?

The problem with saying that The Matrix and Reloaded are \"brainless\" action movies defies the original intent of the Wachowski brothers. They WANTED this to be a smart trilogy, they wanted it to be intellectually, philosophically and visually intriguing.

Yes, this IS another beat \'em up, massive explosions action flick...but it\'s also so much more, and to exclude that fact, you are missing one very large chunk of the movies.

I thought that Reloaded was fantastic, possibly the best movie ever. Why? Not because of the special FX, but because of the brain-teasing elements. My friends and I left the theatre on opening night, boggled, bewildered and amazed. We had a HUGE debate on what we thought was REALLY going on in the Matrix trilogy, and generally tried to figure out just what the heck everything meant (enter the whole \"Matrix-within-a-Matrix\" debate). Some might find this deterring, but we were amazed. Imagine, an action/sci-fi flick that actually makes you THINK! :wow:

Perhaps the most boggling thing about it is how the audience walks in after seeing the first one, and thinks they know or can guess what will happen, believing that the story will be linear and easy to follow by the general audience without attempt at thought. Haha...SURPRIZE! lol

It\'s amazing how many people left embittered because they realized they had to think when they originally thought they were just watching \"another action movie\". In my defense, I have to agree that it is not, in fact, another Bible or what have you - the writers simply used theology/philosophy/whateverology to create a darn smart film.

 

[Micha]

whatever you mean, friend

Well, Wurm, it´s well possible that the good Wachowskis wanted this to be a philosophic film, but it didn´t seem that way (not meant as criticism); the complex talk in Reloaded provided some rest so the calmer viewers don´t get a stroke from all the great action scenes; I admit that I was intrigued when I left the cinema, but only because I just didn´t get any sense out of all those dialogues - you just have to admit that the Mervingians´s talk was plain linguistic nonsense (just as his name - why a medieval German nobility clan if he´s so French? ) and so was the rest of the dialogues, and as soon as I had realized that I began to admire the film even more (remember what I said about brains and movies )

 

[wyrmling_x]

Ah, my apologies: I didn\'t mean that their intent was to create a philosophical movie, rather a philosophically engaging movie. To further explain, I believe that binding philosophy to the plot and movie \"core\" was a technique used to make viewers ponder, and to enhance the plot, not try to make themselves into another Socrates and Plato. It\'s still \"just\" a movie after all.

 

[Rachel]

oh no...

I\'m replying to a reloaded thread and I swore I never would . For the record, I really enjoyed the film. Anyway, just wanted to comment on The Merovingian - I believe the knights in question had some kind of belief they were direct descendents of Jesus, or something like that, which ties in with more of the \'The One\' stuff floating around and the various conspiracy theories over Persephone\'s comment about the Merovingian having been like Neo and some kind of link there.

All the names seem to have some kind of significance, regardless of the lack of subtlety (goddamn hacker names, can\'t anyone just be \'bob\'?). I\'m rather looking forward to the third one, I actually find Persephone one of the most interesting characters (although I\'ll admit that has more than a little bit to do with her being played by Monica Belucci, phoar... anyone seen Brotherhood of the Wolf? sorry, I forget the spelling of the proper French name).

oh, and I think that Zion is probably real world, mainly because I\'d hate for the reason for Neo\'s control of the sentinels to be such a cop-out as that... like the films where someone hits their head at the start, and at the end the whole thing was a dream. Cheap tactic, boring, too easy.

Roll on November December... Matrix 3 and Return of the King in a 2 month period? woot!