mickc22
Granddad!
Have a read through this Scott
Metal and Reflective surfaces it\'s very informative
Metal and Reflective surfaces it\'s very informative
The \"NMM Controversy\"
- Thread starter Alchemist
- Start date
ScottRadom
Shogun of Saskatchewan
Dude, your the linky KING. I look forward to it. I still find that where I really melt down is in placement of highlights and shades on metal. It\'s a lot easier on something without the reflective qualities like a cloak or skin. Hope that article helps me some.
Thanks again Mick!
Thanks again Mick!
Shawn R. L.
New member
My one comment on a subject that\'s been BEAT TO DEATH is this -
NMM or metallics - either way, did it get done well and how well does it work?
NMM or metallics - either way, did it get done well and how well does it work?
RuneBrush
New member
Really interesting read going though all the comments. The only bash I had at NMM looked pap, but having said that I did learn a bit from it 
I do think that its right to say that you need to be able to look at a mini and see how the light reflects to get NMM looking right a lot more than you do with normal painting. Also TM looks acceptable with a below average paint job, where as NMM doesn\'t.
I don\'t have an strong opinion on what should be used where, although I personally dislike seeing pure metalics used on cloth.
pete
I do think that its right to say that you need to be able to look at a mini and see how the light reflects to get NMM looking right a lot more than you do with normal painting. Also TM looks acceptable with a below average paint job, where as NMM doesn\'t.I don\'t have an strong opinion on what should be used where, although I personally dislike seeing pure metalics used on cloth.
pete
I think this was the best NMM thread.
http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/viewthread.php?tid=20400&page=1
It had:
A granny falling into a wheely bin.
Lonos art of cockpunching war.
A man prepared to eat a hat.
The word \'effeminate\' used countless times.
Swordwind and montka almost having a Uwe Boll style boxing match.
And lots of daft and pretentious posts.
Peace and love...
http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/viewthread.php?tid=20400&page=1
It had:
A granny falling into a wheely bin.
Lonos art of cockpunching war.
A man prepared to eat a hat.
The word \'effeminate\' used countless times.
Swordwind and montka almost having a Uwe Boll style boxing match.
And lots of daft and pretentious posts.
Peace and love...
ScottRadom
Shogun of Saskatchewan
Ha Matty!
Y\'know something....
I USED to agree with him about single figs being pointless, and that the only viable (to me of course) reason for painting was for gaming. Now I sing a different tune, and enjoy the painting more then the collecting for gaming reasons.
Still prefer a beautiful TM model over NMM model. But I am not going to start a thread about how stupid the NMM camp is.... \'cause they know already!lol
Kidding of course. I aim\'s to try it one day, and have a side project hopefully lining up that aims to be educational!
Y\'know something....
I USED to agree with him about single figs being pointless, and that the only viable (to me of course) reason for painting was for gaming. Now I sing a different tune, and enjoy the painting more then the collecting for gaming reasons.
Still prefer a beautiful TM model over NMM model. But I am not going to start a thread about how stupid the NMM camp is.... \'cause they know already!lol
Kidding of course. I aim\'s to try it one day, and have a side project hopefully lining up that aims to be educational!
obsidianpainting
New member
I have to use Automatons arguments with the nmm controversy.
NMM is amazing, and can look really really good. However, i think the reason why it became so popular is because not many people knew how to make it look TM to look really good.
Here is his article
This explains a way in which to make TM painting to look really really good. It brings back that metallic paints can look just as good, if not better, than NMM
NMM is amazing, and can look really really good. However, i think the reason why it became so popular is because not many people knew how to make it look TM to look really good.
Here is his article
This explains a way in which to make TM painting to look really really good. It brings back that metallic paints can look just as good, if not better, than NMM
Originally posted by dxhernandez
I don\'t know if this has been said already but I read an article somewhere that made a very interesting point.
Metallic paints are great for getting that shiny armor result fast and with minimal effort, but you still usually end up with a more, what i like to call, \"Cartoony\" feel.
This is simply because if we are portraying a life size person in a small mini form it is impossible for the small metallic surfaces of the miniature to produce the complex reflections of a large life-sized surface.
Therefore, placing a shiny coat of paint (metallic paints) on a small surface cannot replicate the reflections as if it were life-sized.
That is why most artists who are seeking a more realistic feel will go with NMM. It is a way to control the look of your reflections shadows and highlights in order to replicate the miniatures armor/sword/whatever as if it were a life-sized object.
hope that made a bit of sense
I have not seen anyone even try a truly convincing depiciton of \"real\" reflexion patterns in metal using NMM. I have seen a few examples of doing slightly more involved reflexion patterns, but in the end they end up looking very stylised (nothing wrong with that), still pretty far away from the complexity of real, life-sized metal objects, and hardly what you can call \"realistic\".
junior elf
New member
well yeah, but have a look at matt\'s sigvald\'s shoulder pads. they seem pretty realistic
I think both are perfectly acceptable. I have tried both and think that NMM can look fantastic in real life. The rackham display at GenCon proved this!!
One note that hasn\'t been brought up... I feel that if NMM is the choice than all other effects need to be painted as well. For example, if a Wolfen has a blade that is done in NMM then the Wolfen\'s tongue should have \"painted\" highlights to show that it\'s wet (as opposed to gloss varnish.)
The opposite would be true with TM paints. If the Wolfen blade is done in TM then the tongue can highlighted normally and also get some gloss coat to really show wetness.
Basically I\'m saying that if NMM is the choice then it feels strange to have other \"realistic\" elements on the same mini. It always bothers me to see a NMM figure that is standing on a 2part epoxy water base. In my opnion it would look better on a base where water was implied through clever painting (like eric J pulled off.)
This is just my opinion, does anyone else agree?
That being said, I really like the realistic options that painting in TM provides my minis.... tamiya smoke, tamiya red, spot-gloss varnish, clear water effects, clear ice, clear drool, pigments and powders, all of which look great on a figure painted in TM and not quite as good on a figure done in NMM
One note that hasn\'t been brought up... I feel that if NMM is the choice than all other effects need to be painted as well. For example, if a Wolfen has a blade that is done in NMM then the Wolfen\'s tongue should have \"painted\" highlights to show that it\'s wet (as opposed to gloss varnish.)
The opposite would be true with TM paints. If the Wolfen blade is done in TM then the tongue can highlighted normally and also get some gloss coat to really show wetness.
Basically I\'m saying that if NMM is the choice then it feels strange to have other \"realistic\" elements on the same mini. It always bothers me to see a NMM figure that is standing on a 2part epoxy water base. In my opnion it would look better on a base where water was implied through clever painting (like eric J pulled off.)
This is just my opinion, does anyone else agree?
That being said, I really like the realistic options that painting in TM provides my minis.... tamiya smoke, tamiya red, spot-gloss varnish, clear water effects, clear ice, clear drool, pigments and powders, all of which look great on a figure painted in TM and not quite as good on a figure done in NMM
Originally posted by junior elf
well yeah, but have a look at matt\'s sigvald\'s shoulder pads. they seem pretty realistic
I\'ve seen it and in my eyes it falls under the categories \"slightly more involved\" and \"highly stylised\". Nothing wrong with that, and I think it\'s bloody good painting, but life-like and realistic it\'s not.
ScottRadom
Shogun of Saskatchewan
Well good. I am glad we were all able to come to an agreement then NMM sucks.
Glad that\'s over and settled!lol
I guess following the same discussion (sorta) do you guys mostly feel NMM has sort of become less popular? Was the Rackham confrontation stuff that made NMM so popular kind of slowly become less and less popular?
I know that there are plenty of people who swear by NMM here and on other boards but do you guys think it\'s sort of dwindling slightly? I see that EM is starting to have some pieces done in NMM hitting their books and WD and maybe that will popularize the style again?
Or is it just me? Is NMM as popular now as ever?
I\'ll tell you what, as a TM fan the one thing I really like is the very well done placement of highlights from some of the NMM painters on this site. If I could figure that stuff out... BAM!
Glad that\'s over and settled!lol
I guess following the same discussion (sorta) do you guys mostly feel NMM has sort of become less popular? Was the Rackham confrontation stuff that made NMM so popular kind of slowly become less and less popular?
I know that there are plenty of people who swear by NMM here and on other boards but do you guys think it\'s sort of dwindling slightly? I see that EM is starting to have some pieces done in NMM hitting their books and WD and maybe that will popularize the style again?
Or is it just me? Is NMM as popular now as ever?
I\'ll tell you what, as a TM fan the one thing I really like is the very well done placement of highlights from some of the NMM painters on this site. If I could figure that stuff out... BAM!
Brother Captain
Member
What matters most to me is how NMM or TM ties with the rest of the mini. Even the best metalics (either in NMM or TM) loose their value when they look out of place.
A great example of how metalics tie with the rest of the mini as well as with it\'s fluff and background is mattsterbenz\'s sigvald: http://www.coolminiornot.com/213336
NMM much like all the \"advanced\" techniques is a tool which can produce amazing results if used correctly. It can also be a great way to practice blending and highlight placement. I think it is considered special because it involves a great deal of skill to be done correctly. There is no \"tabletop quality NMM\". Because of that most painters start miniature painting with TM which can produce good tabletop results with litle effort. When they want to get better at painting they will already have some grasp of the TM technique so it will be easier to improve that technique instead of switch to NMM. At least that\'s what happened to me and though I\'d like to try NMM I don\'t have enough time to learn a new technique from scratch (and being quite lazy doesn\'t help either).
As for the realism of TM and NMM it still depends on how the technique is used and how the rest of the mini is painted. TM tend to be more realistic but then realistic TM used in a mini where the rest of the colours are painted in a highly stylized way would look out of place. In my oppinion what makes a good mini is not neceassary its realism. Excelent minis are often not painted in a realistic way
Anyway it\'s a good thing that some people prefer NMM and others TM. It would be borring to see models painted using only one technique and I think many people like CMON precisely because they can see mini\'s painted using various different techniques.
@Backstabbeth: I\'m honoured.
@matty1001: Thanks for the link to that topic. It realy made my day.
A great example of how metalics tie with the rest of the mini as well as with it\'s fluff and background is mattsterbenz\'s sigvald: http://www.coolminiornot.com/213336
NMM much like all the \"advanced\" techniques is a tool which can produce amazing results if used correctly. It can also be a great way to practice blending and highlight placement. I think it is considered special because it involves a great deal of skill to be done correctly. There is no \"tabletop quality NMM\". Because of that most painters start miniature painting with TM which can produce good tabletop results with litle effort. When they want to get better at painting they will already have some grasp of the TM technique so it will be easier to improve that technique instead of switch to NMM. At least that\'s what happened to me and though I\'d like to try NMM I don\'t have enough time to learn a new technique from scratch (and being quite lazy doesn\'t help either).
As for the realism of TM and NMM it still depends on how the technique is used and how the rest of the mini is painted. TM tend to be more realistic but then realistic TM used in a mini where the rest of the colours are painted in a highly stylized way would look out of place. In my oppinion what makes a good mini is not neceassary its realism. Excelent minis are often not painted in a realistic way
Anyway it\'s a good thing that some people prefer NMM and others TM. It would be borring to see models painted using only one technique and I think many people like CMON precisely because they can see mini\'s painted using various different techniques.
@Backstabbeth: I\'m honoured.
@matty1001: Thanks for the link to that topic. It realy made my day.
