The old Rackham paints..

[Limara]

Hey there!

After being away from the hobby for a few years, I've decided to pick it up again. What can I say, I miss it! And as the days are getting darker, how better to spend my time painting away?

Here's the thing though. I used to Love my old Rackham paints. Unfortunately, all my old bottles have dried out and I had to get rid of them.. I know that not all of you guys loved Rackham paints, mainly because if you thinned them down they would separate. But I used them a little thicker (in comparison) and they were really all I needed. The things that I loved about Rackham paints were:

They dried the same way as how they looked wet. (This is a mayor plus!!)
The thickness and covering was really good.
They blended really well.
They didn't separate in the bottle.
There was a pastel range. (also a big plus as I always paint my mini's light)

I've gone from Rackham paints to a full new set of Vallejo Game Colour and I must say.. I haven't been able to get any good results with them from day one. They have been a big disappointment.. They separate, they dry up darker, I can't get them to blend properly, some colours dry up satin some mat, some colours don't cover at all. This is probably a skill problem on my side, but it makes me feel really incompetent.. On the plus side, I love the metalic range of vgc and I intend to keep that!

Anyway, looking at my little list on what I loved about Rackham's, what paint would you recommend to replace my vallejo's with? I'd love to get a full set, to get a solid base to start with but I want to make the investment worthwhile. I misjudged the vgc set and I don't want that to happen again.. I'm looking for a paint set to replace them and I've heard some really good things about P3 and Scale75. What do you guys recommend?

 

[gohkm]

I have heard many good things about Scale75, but I haven't tried them yet, primarily because of cost.

I use P3 paints almost exclusively - they thin well without splitting excessively, even with thinners from other brands, have sinfully good coverage (even yellows and reds), and are really easy to wetblend.

They are a bit thicker than usual, but less gel-like than Rackham paints.

In addition, I use Vallejo Air Colour - these act like richly pigmented glazes, and are excellent for glazing. The metallic range is also very good as the pigments are very finely ground.

Both will spray easily through an airbrush, although P3 require more thinning than VAC.

 

[MAXXxxx]

This is probably a skill problem on my side, but it makes me feel really incompetent.. On the plus side, I love the metalic range of vgc and I intend to keep that!

not really, it's mostly a VGC problem. The VMC/VAC/supposedly the new GamingAirColor behave much better for the coverage/blending/glossyness part (they (or at least VMC) has the separation part though, so you have to remix it on the palette too)

Anyway, looking at my little list on what I loved about Rackham's, what paint would you recommend to replace my vallejo's with? I'd love to get a full set, to get a solid base to start with but I want to make the investment worthwhile. I misjudged the vgc set and I don't want that to happen again.. I'm looking for a paint set to replace them and I've heard some really good things about P3 and Scale75. What do you guys recommend?

I'd say it depends partly where you live. In the EU I know very few stores that carry P3 even though the paintline is a few years old now (same(or even worse) for reaper), while scale75 is carried by more and more.
Then again, if you order all colors once, and later reuse (if at all) the same store it won't be a problem.

As for the paints... I'd say Scale75. They dry more matt, really good for blending, good color range. Separation in bottle... not too bad, but happens.
+ I might be completely off, but Scale75 is formulated more with painters in mind, while P3 more with gamers.

And of course even if you have one of the sets, if you see a nice new color from the other don't hesitate to get it.

-------

and off topic, but I have 2 sets of Rackham paints, I'd be willing to sell one, but problems could be because of shipping costs and your definition of dried out bottles (the worst is the forgotten gold color, being clumpy and all, but that was like that even new, same in both boxes + even in 3 starters I tried). I say they are still usable, but you might say that you threw out bottles just like them.

 

[Trevor]

As has already been said, VGC are not great. Pretty much any of the main alternatives should be OK (VMC, Games Workshop, Scale 75, Reaper Master, P3), BUT which is best for you depends upon how you paint. Given what you have said, the GW base range and edge paints might suit your painting style best (and are easy to get hold of). Really you need to try out the different brands, do you have any friends you could borrow from to try out the different ranges?
I also have a bunch of the Rackham paints and probably have a few spares, but it depends upon where you live and postage costs.

 

[Limara]

Thanks all for the nice replies!

Gohkm, I like what I've heard about Scale75, but I was looking for a little more reference to back it up. I like that they can be used for airbrushing as well, though I have never tried airbrushing before. I feel that's a new skill to explore all together.

Max, I've stopped playing a long time ago, because I was always more of a painter anyway. That's alright. (Off topic, I'd love to take you up on that offer! It would be christmas come early! Let me drop you a pm.)

Trevor, auch painful to hear that any others would be better.. And there I thought I had a good deal on the VGC-set. Ah well, that was nearly 4 years ago anyway. Thanks for the tip, I'll go sniffing out some game stores and see if they have any painting-get-togethers! Would be fun!

 

[MAXXxxx]

I've stopped playing a long time ago, because I was always more of a painter anyway. That's alright.

that makes the whole thing easier. Scale75 all the way

 

[Ritual]

Trevor, auch painful to hear that any others would be better.. And there I thought I had a good deal on the VGC-set. Ah well, that was nearly 4 years ago anyway. Thanks for the tip, I'll go sniffing out some game stores and see if they have any painting-get-togethers! Would be fun!

Some of the VGC paints are quite alright, so don't go throwing them away. But, VMC and Scale75 are the ones I tend to use the most.

 

[AndyG]

Hi I've just started using the scale 75 and I've got to say I'm very impressed on all levels with them. Also the other ranges of Vallejo are very good just not the game range. Also GW are very good easy to come by and some of the paints I've had for ten+ years and they're still good to go. Overall though I'd say Scale75 are the best.

 

[SkelettetS]

scale 75 paints separate the same way as VMC though, at least thats my experiance. to me thats not really a problem, especially with som agitator balls in the paints its quite easy to mix.

i mostly use the old GW range and VMC, never cared much about the VGC though.

 

[Limara]

(Looks like the forum ate my post..)

I'm surprised by all the positive results on the Scale75. I'd never heard of it before, it seems relatively new. But it's already on my wishlist! I love dropper bottles. I'm thinking about getting agitator balls for my VGC too, it might help in getting them un-separated more easily.

 

[Ritual]

One thing about Scale75 paints... the droppers are sealed when you buy the paints. So, you need to push something sharp through them first. Then, when the paints are new you need to shake them A LOT!! You'll notice if the stuff that comes out is a clear liquid, a solid paint or something inbetween.

 

[SkelettetS]

One thing about Scale75 paints... the droppers are sealed when you buy the paints. So, you need to push something sharp through them first.

or, you just press harder... :silly!:

 

[Limara]

Haha thanks for the tip guys! I'll keep it in mind!

 

[Ritual]

or, you just press harder... :silly!:

Oh, and never trust this guy!!! :sinister:

 

[StuartH]

I'm enjoying the GW new range of paints as they have some quite muted tones in comparison with the old Vallejo game colour that I used before I stopped painting.

i am just painting with what I have and learning the pros and cons all over again and how to deal with it.
yes my brushes might not be the best and neither might my eyesight but I'm enjoying painting again because I'm learning at the same time.

just give it a go with what you have for now. After 10 minis painted try some other stuff

 

[Limara]

Very good idea StuartH. I'm working on an Arwen figure right now. It's not going to win any prizes, it's just me getting back into painting again. I seem to have a million mini's up in the attic waiting to get painted. We'll see how it goes.

 

[BloodFather of Kharnath]

Very good idea StuartH. I'm working on an Arwen figure right now. It's not going to win any prizes, it's just me getting back into painting again. I seem to have a million mini's up in the attic waiting to get painted. We'll see how it goes.

So so happy to hear you are starting up the hobby again. Every day more and more people are getting to miniature painting, and it makes me smile inside. Especially since you have voiced your question here! You have come to the best community in the world for serious mini painting.

I have a bit of every paint brand, though haven't started buying any Scale75 (just because my LGS doesn't carry them). However, at some point I am going to learn to do TMM and when this happens I will HAVE to buy S75. A little background on the paints, especially the metallics. A man by the name of Alfonso Giraldes was hired by S75 to get with some chemists and come up with the paint ranges. He wanted something similar to Citadel's old metallic range, whom veterans could tell you were the best on the market, and still have not been surpassed in quality. Well, he did this and more when he created the metallic line from S75. He wanted a metallic that could be super thinned for glazing yet would not lose the superior pigmentation in the process. From what I gather, he succeeded.

As Skel said, seperating really isn't an issue unless it happens on the paintbrush. You can always quickly mix your paint on the wet pallet before applying it to the mini. Not really a big deal or a reason not to purchase a paint. I judge a paint by, when thinned, how smoothly it distributed over the surface of the mini. If it applies very evenly and doesn't streak or clump or otherwise misbehave, it is a superior paint. It must be able to do this both when slightly diluted and uber diluted. And that's it, that is my litmus test.

Many people complain about VGC. While not the best paint, and inferior to VMC, it really isn't that bad IMO. The best thing about VGC is that their paint line matches the old Citadel paints. For instance, there is no longer a Snakebite Leather. For many NMM painters, this is a MUST when it comes to making gold. Well, VGC has a Cobra Leather that is exactly the same. So, for discontinued paints from Citadel, VGC is the way to go. What's more, they recently came out with a Vallejo Game Air line that is great even for the paintbrush because the paints are pre-diluted more towards what we want for our layers.

To me, there are certain paints from different manufacturers that I simply cannot go without. Like Smoke from VMC. Incubi darkness from Citadel. Cobra Leather from VGC. Ivory from VMC. Armor Wash from P3. And a ton more. If you want a list I will gladly post it here.

Conversely, there are paints from different brands that I'd stay away from. Abaddon Black from Citadel, for example, is far too glossy. My understanding is that S75 makes the best black. Anyway , you get the point. I basically consider myself a collector of paint. I have over $800 worth of the stuff.