To Pin or not to Pin, that is the question (re: Molochs)

[Alchemist]

Hi,
I\'ve been painting for a bit shy of three months and am gradually taking on new techniques, even trying my hand (rather awkwardly) at NMM. But there are two \"intermediate\" skills that I have somewhat deliberately avoided: basing and pinning. I\'ll leave basing aside, only to say that I plan on buying some flock this weekend and giving it a go.

So, pinning. Is it really necessary? My glue of choice has been ZAP CA which, while somewhat messy and prone to \"wash\" over a section of the mini if I\'m not careful, sets very quickly and works adequately well. Sure, I\'ve had delicate pieces come apart when dropped, but they are the exception, not the rule. When necessary I will use the green stuff; I have even tried using 5-minute epoxy, but found that it really takes 10 minutes to set, which is kind of prohibitive.

Anyways, I just spent half a C-note on Rackham\'s Molochs, which are beautiful, detailed figures. I don\'t plan on painting them for quite some time--I want to develop my skills on my few dozen unpainted Reapers before moving onto my more prized Confrontation minis--but I would like to assemble them so I can at least have them looking at me on my desk. Is pinning necessary? Or, more specifically, in what instances is pinning a good idea and in what instances is it basically overkill?

Thanks!

 

[GreenOne]

It all depends on how much you\'re going to move them around, and the size of the pieces.
Small things like arms, can often hold with only glue, but larger things like wings will often need pinning. The safest route is to pin everything that\'s big enough to be drilled without destroying. When it\'s done right, you will never regret pinning a piece, while it may happen otherwise. Any thick glue have a good chance of making a mess; try super glue or similar, or green stuff.
On a side note, you don\'t necessarily need flock for basing, I rarely do use it. I use static grass, sand and various \'moss\' I bought at the dollar store. Basing is half the fun imo, so you should give this a try.

 

[Aliengod3]

I always pin my minis. If I am working on a mini that is metal I pin. If I am working on a mini that is part metal part plastic I pin. If I am working on a coversion I pin. To me there is nothing worse than when pieces of a mini break off when it could have been avoided by pinning. I highly recommend pinning. Pin everything you can. Learn to love it.

 

[Aschul]

Yeah, don\'t be lazy - pin everything. Otherwise you\'ll just regret it later.

 

[Dragonsreach]

I\'ve just had to look up the Molochs you are refering to.
The basic answer is YES pin everything.

The more complex answer is that with Rackham and other figures the level of pinning is dependant on the thickness and weight of the sections to be pinned together and their joint structure.

For Example Joining a large wing to a body will require strong pinning joints, possibly two pins depending on the amount of contact surface that you have available and the size of the pieces. Now while that sound difficult it isn\'t, GW (in the form of Mike McVay) showed the simple way of matching up pinning positions. Firstly drill and set the two pins in the Say the wing, dip the tips of the pins into RED paint and quickly touch the contact surface where the wing is to go. Voila you have two red dots where to drill.

Also you have to take into account the strength of the pin join, so for the likes of the wing scenario I would use steel dressmakers pins cut to length for structural strength. (To cut them safely Place the pin into a Wine bottle Cork. Stops piece flying round to found by an unsuspecting bare foot later on).

For thin items like arms, as I did recently on a Slaaneshi Masque, I use the thinnest Guitar String wire I had available and drilled carefully with my Dremel.

 

[Corgan]

Something not totally relevant but has to do with pinning.

I want to make a base with a slate stone on wich the miniature stands. I don\'t know ow to create this stone. Cork does not look like a realistic slate sone. Only a real slate stone looks ok but pinning on it, will either destroy your drill or the slate stone. Perhaps the solution would be a dremel or to find plastic slate stone. I can not find the last one around.

The result will be something like that http://www.shop.microartstudio.com/shale-bases-20x20mm-p-43.html
but the point is not to have to buy such bases but to create them.

What do you suggest?

P.S. If you think this should be a seperate topic, I will remove it.

 

[atacam]

Right I\'ve just pulled my Molochs out

And can only reiterate what D/S has said, although I use paper clips to pin everything. and so far they have held, even pinning wings to my Netherlord. They are only 0.8mm wide so do everything so far.

 

[tidoco2222]

I rarely pin my models but then I don\'t often play so there is less need for it, but certainly on big models I would say yes definitely. I have just started working on the Archaon model from GW the mounted version and this is for a display piece for a local store that I have been asked to do. I have pinned everything and it has taken me hours but it is going to be time well spent and it will be the same with the Moloch models.
Paperclips are very good I bought a pack of spears from Foundry a long time ago and found them to make excellent pins for larger fitting parts.
Incidentally does anyone have any Molochs to sell/ trade?

 

[freakinacage]

Originally posted by Aschul
Yeah, don\'t be lazy - pin everything. Otherwise you\'ll just regret it later.

when in doubt pin

 

[Alchemist]

Thanks, all. I guess I\'ll try to pin the suckers. Another, related, question: What would you do with bigger models that you\'ve already glued but didn\'t pin, but haven\'t painted yet? Specifically I\'m thinking of two Reaper models: Verocithrax and Agramon; Verocithrax especially, as it has large heavy wings (at about 10 inches tall it is by far the largest figure I own). Should I just hope for the best or is it worth it to pull the wings off and re-do the whole job?

Originally posted by tidoco2222
Incidentally does anyone have any Molochs to sell/ trade?

There are models out there--I think there is one on Ebay right now, and someone offered to sell me theirs for $50 on Bartertown...I got mine for $50 from someone, and I think that is about what it will take (and what the list price is). My guess is that the price is going to go up eventually once they become more scarce, so if you want them don\'t be shy about spending $50 now. Who knows, you might be lucky and get them for less, but I don\'t think less than $40.

 

[TAB Studio]

On dragons or 54mm 1/6 scale minis...I have glued then pinned the wings right through the join, after cutting the pin flush, I greenstuff behind the pin to cover the entry point and exit. Seems to work very well for me.

As far as the drill and slate, I tried a hole in a piece from a roof and I could not get through it with the dremel, I had thought it would be no problem but it was as you said Corgan
I plan to go to the hardware store to find the answer cause when they do the roof they drill two holes to screw attach the slate, so there is a way.
I will u2u you as soon as I find a way

 

[Ritual]

Slate is not one specific type of rock. There are many types of slate. Some are really easy to drill through, even with a pin vice, and some are very difficult. You won\'t know till you try.

As for pinning in general... I go by the principle that if it\'s physically possible to pin something I\'ll pin it. Even though I never use my minis for anything but display, I feel much better having stuff pinned. You never know when something might fall off... If you transport the mini, if something falls on to it, if you drop the mini, if you accidentally nudges it... It doesn\'t take that much effort to pin things and the mini will be much more durable for it.

 

[Alchemist]

Another, technical question: What to drill with? I hear folks mention Dremels, but I\'m not sure I want to shell out $50+ on an electric drill. I\'ve also seen pictures of hand drills used, so I bought a $4 one at Michael\'s. It came with 1/8th and 1/16 bits, but I\'m thinking I might need a 1/32 for the smaller pieces--and they don\'t sell those at Home Depot or Lowe\'s.

Do the hand drills really work? And if so, what is the usual size bit that you use?

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by Alchemist
Another, technical question: What to drill with?
One of the easiest things to start with is a Pin Vice.

Not too expensive and with a good set of drills will last quite a long time. (In my case 30+ years)
I hear folks mention Dremels, but I\'m not sure I want to shell out $50+ on an electric drill.
It\'s not a case of shelling out but an investment in saving time. A dremel isn\'t just a drill, with the right burrs and grinding tools its a godsend for modelling.
I\'ve also seen pictures of hand drills used, so I bought a $4 one at Michael\'s. It came with 1/8th and 1/16 bits, but I\'m thinking I might need a 1/32 for the smaller pieces--and they don\'t sell those at Home Depot or Lowe\'s.
Do the hand drills really work? And if so, what is the usual size bit that you use?
Get a set of these

Micro Drills. That set will cover most modelling needs and isn\'t too expensive.

 

[cleen X]

But how about GW space marines 30 mm? Do you need to pin them? And what should I pin them with? And is pin vice the tool to use on GW space marines?

 

[GreenOne]

I got a generic brand rotary tool (dremel like) for 40$ and later got a complete set of bits and tools for another 40$ and it\'s probably the best investment I have made for the hobby.

 

[arogers907]

Originally posted by GreenOne
I got a generic brand rotary tool (dremel like) for 40$ and later got a complete set of bits and tools for another 40$ and it\'s probably the best investment I have made for the hobby.

Yah. I love my dremel. It saves time, sure. More than that, though... my pin vices always seem to have unfinished minis pinned into the ends. =P

And, yah. Pin everything. If it\'s too small to pin, I greenstuff and glue. Works better than just glueing for me. I don\'t have any advice on the slate, though.