totally unrelated subject

cassar

cassar

BALLSCRATCHER
I have a problem im trying to identify a very old (antique) possibly in excess of 100 years Damascus double barrelled 12 gauge hammer shotgun it belonged to my father inlaw, The problem is there there doesnt appear to be any visible makers mark that i can identify only a whole clatter of proof stamps etc i know there are a few enthusiast on nthis site so im giving it a go here as well as on some other dedicated gun websites to see what pops up.
Here are some picks.

length just a tad under 4 feet total
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007-29_zpsa9d6c6c4.jpg


008-28_zps2a15d2d7.jpg


009-27_zpsaf352e59.jpg


010-24_zpsd154ca64.jpg


011-22_zpsa1c7ef43.jpg


012-19_zpsd76ee0ad.jpg


013-17_zps3d590165.jpg


014-14_zps8a220d6d.jpg


015-11_zps0bfaa20c.jpg


016-12_zpsabef4048.jpg


018-8_zpse4673232.jpg


020-7_zps7bb07e8a.jpg


021-7_zps94eeaeba.jpg


I have a sneaky suspicion that it might be french or belgian in origin. any help would be great cheers.
 
Bloodhowl

Bloodhowl

Active member
Belgian and proofed for blackpowder. Sorry mate. Best I can come up with. That AC stamp on there might be a Manufacturer. And it's also possible the gun is old enough the Manufacturer did not put a mark on it. The gun may have been manufactured somewhere else and imported into Belgium then proofed. From the same book in picture below: "Proof of a firearm has been defined as the "testing of a new small arm before sale to insure so far as practicable its safety in the hands of its user.""

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cassar

cassar

BALLSCRATCHER
cheers mate as far as i can tell its got the leige proofs and as you say the black powder, the PJ is a proof from 1977 as far as i can tell the *ac is the tester code im guessing its from some time between the late 1800's say 1857 and 1923 judging by the other leige proofs im going to have to get it nitro tested and marked i think.
 
Bloodhowl

Bloodhowl

Active member
If you find out, please post back or pm me with the details. That is one sexy looking antique boom-stick!
 
Sand Rat

Sand Rat

New member
Bloodhowl beat me too it - but definately Belgian proofmarks - nice pattern to the steel as well. Knew a gunsmith here a few years ago who was going to line some similar barrels with modern steel barrels and make large caliber rifles out of them.
 
cassar

cassar

BALLSCRATCHER
I have traced most of the proof marks on the gun, Belgian Leige definitive and black powder proofs as well as inspectors marks also an english black powder proof then theres the barrels and chokes, the only one to still puzzle me is the PJ on one barrel im wondering if it might just be a previous owners innitals and im chasing my tail looking for anything else.
 
cassar

cassar

BALLSCRATCHER
just the same feedback i got from yourself Blood and thanks for the assist much appreciated. :)
 
Shawn R. L.

Shawn R. L.

New member
Interesting this should come up. I was watching a show the other night (Pawn Stars) and they got to discussing a large calibur rifle made of Damascus steel that was about the age of your piece. One thing I remember was that they said that type of steel is likely to burst if discharged. Can't remember why that is but might check with a gunsmith to see if this is so.
 
cassar

cassar

BALLSCRATCHER
Shawn R. L. said:
Interesting this should come up. I was watching a show the other night (Pawn Stars) and they got to discussing a large calibur rifle made of Damascus steel that was about the age of your piece. One thing I remember was that they said that type of steel is likely to burst if discharged. Can't remember why that is but might check with a gunsmith to see if this is so.
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Hi shawn yep the Damascus steel hasnt been made for centuries and nobody really knows how it was made the stuff we call Damascus steel today is really pattern welded and is folded and folded repeatedly i think with the gun barrels they coil steel wire around a mandrel and weld it all together they arent built for strength although some of the Belgium stuff is of a good quality this is one of em and has the superior proofs.
 
Sand Rat

Sand Rat

New member
You definately want to get it nitro tested - although, a beauty like that, I dont know if I'd fire it with modern powders - don't know about your side of the pond, but over here you can get black powder equivalents and hand load shells - although I have to admit I'd probably have the barrels acid washed to bring out the patterning and then use it fro a wall hanger.
 
cassar

cassar

BALLSCRATCHER
Sand Rat said:
You definately want to get it nitro tested - although, a beauty like that, I dont know if I'd fire it with modern powders - don't know about your side of the pond, but over here you can get black powder equivalents and hand load shells - although I have to admit I'd probably have the barrels acid washed to bring out the patterning and then use it fro a wall hanger.
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Im thinking the same its too old really for day to day use so a restoration might be the route to go down as to the modern cartridges ive fired it years ago (late 90's) and the cartridges were just standard clay shells however that was before i know what i know now lol.
DSCF0997a_zpsca88168a.jpg
 
Sand Rat

Sand Rat

New member
Hmm, looks like an overpressure issue there -

Reminds me of a story - was in the gunshop that the friend of mine ran, and on the counter he had a Webley .454 - proof marks up. When I rolled it over, the left side of the barrel was bulged at the chamber. The owner had managed to get the weapon to double - fired a round normally. Fired the second round and nothing, fired the third and it was enourmously loud, and the rest fired as normal. Then he noticed the bulge. Idiot.
 
Shawn R. L.

Shawn R. L.

New member
Sand Rat said:
Hmm, looks like an overpressure issue there -

Reminds me of a story - was in the gunshop that the friend of mine ran, and on the counter he had a Webley .454 - proof marks up. When I rolled it over, the left side of the barrel was bulged at the chamber. The owner had managed to get the weapon to double - fired a round normally. Fired the second round and nothing, fired the third and it was enourmously loud, and the rest fired as normal. Then he noticed the bulge. Idiot.
Click to expand...

Did he look down the barrel to see what the problem was? :)
 
Sand Rat

Sand Rat

New member
No - but if the idiot had stopped when the second round did not fire properly, set the gun down in case it was a miss or hang fire and then opened the cylinder and checked the barrel he would have saved himself repair costs.
 
Bloodhowl

Bloodhowl

Active member
Sand Rat said:
No - but if the idiot had stopped when the second round did not fire properly, set the gun down in case it was a miss or hang fire and then opened the cylinder and checked the barrel he would have saved himself repair costs.
Click to expand...

But then he wouldn't be supporting those aspiring gunsmiths (like me) with getting a new barrel for his rifle!
 
cassar

cassar

BALLSCRATCHER
sandrats right its hard to miss a weak round makes a distinctive sound more of a pop than a bang, still could be worse could have been me paying Bloodhowl for a repair lol
 
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