True Scale Space Wolves, Fluff Accurate Models and Rules

AJAX40k

New member
"My green stuff hardened just fine, and I've been able to file and sand some stuff down fairly easily. (the shoulder pad on Henir) Maybe it's your ratio of green:blue?"

I tried a higher blue to yellow ratio and it files down a little better. I used the grey stuff for the first time last night and must say that I like it a good deal more for the armour. Although I think it is just me being quirky! I love the axe head! and thanks for posting the how to notes. I'm 75% done with my first 10 figs.
I haven't tried grey stuff... but just buying the bitz (even from ebay) exhausted my store of disposable income. Once I finish these guys I might sell them and start over... who knows? I need to find a job first- stupid college student hours... by the way... damn... you're fast.

After much debating and comments I did go ahead and widen the back packs following the Master of the Forge Tutorial. Did you decide against doing this part? I know that not everyone loves it but the wider ones do seem to fit the model better. Not that I'm looking for more work! :)
Yes, I made one and I tried it... but I didn't much like it for the Wolves. I would put it on a regular marine but I didn't like the way it looked. I've always thought the backpacks were slightly over the top anyway. Plus, that backpack method is nearly impossible with the more detailed and complex backpacks that come with the new wolf pack box, and I really wanted to keep some of them cause they are quite cool.

Do yu have any tips on doing the shoulder pads? I did 20 of them last night and it took forever to wrap the plasticard strips on the edges. Add it clipping, filing and tweaking and it spilled into today!
cut a long, thin strip, and glue it to the bottom corner going up and over the pad, run the strip over the top and glue a little bit to the other side, then use clippers or the xacto knife to cut that bit off. Then glue one end of the remainder to the corner across the bottom and carefully cut the remainder off at the other side. you'll have to file down where the two bits of plasticard meet but that's the fastest way I've found of doing it. (I can do a mini picture tutorial if that is unintelligible, just let me know!)


I can't wait to see your lord!
Wish granted! (sort of... I plan on finishing him tonight if essays don't overwhelm me and eat my soul.)

I liked the whole comment in the quote with blue ink thing, it makes responding really easy.

AJ​
 

AJAX40k

New member
Ok, I didn't want to respond to Chrome without some pictures of the shoulder pads. Unfortunately my camera is mad at me for some reason and refused to focus on the pads themselves. Normally I wouldn't even post anything this bad but seeing as this is just another quick update during one of my study breaks I don't have time to be my usual perfectionist self.

Left shoulder pad:
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Do the pointy things look ok? Should I just leave it as a circle and paint on the triangles? Or maybe swishy triangles? Like this:
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Right shoulder pad:
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Should I extend the sword so it's not broken or leave it as it is?

Tell me what you think of those.

@Chrome: I can't imagine how frustrating braiding tiny strands of green stuff must have been. I think I'll skip it for this particular round of Wolves. Maybe my next batch.

I believe a converted model without some personal theme in it is improperly done, especially if its for your own collection. I am, actually, a fan of the duality theme and the Sun theme :)

I see what you mean now... Hmm... I was trying to go for a "real codex" feel for the whole thing, as opposed to a supplement. I will try to find the specific rules that act that way and rename them or follow your second template, because I like that one better.

More updates soon! Due to the soul-crushing power of these essays I'm not so sure I'll be able to finish up my Lord tonight :( He WILL be finished by the end of the week!

AJ​
 

wargamer43210

New member
Sorry to hear about the essays! I like the custom shoulder pads. I would probably extend the sword but it looks fine broken too. Since a person is going through all of the trouble of upsizing these guys you may as well make each one unique!

About being close to having my first 10 man squad done - It's because I finished college 15 years ago, lived in the bowels of corporate hades until the end of last year and am now enjoying the righteous freedom of the self employed. Nothing like being able to set your own schedule to let you have lots of fun in life! I wish I had done this sooner but I had trouble letting go of the employer security blanket. ;-)
 

AJAX40k

New member
I'll try to finish up the sword... but I'm not sure it'll look any good... it's an awfully small sword.

Wow... congratulations wargamer! I have to say I am quite jealous... What field are you in that allows you to own your own business and still have enough time to make true scale marines all day?

Also after looking at the pictures I think I know why I don't much like the sun on the shoulder pad, I think I'm gonna try to sculpt another four rays (two up at the top framing the cross guard and another two down at the bottom pushing out from behind the tip) so that the sun is properly symmetrical.

AJ​
 

AJAX40k

New member
Ok, well, with spring break coming up I probably won't get another chance to post until the Monday after next, it depends on when I can get to the internet cafe :)

I finished up the Wolf Lord but... I'm just not satisfied. I don't like him very much at all... I don't know what it is, there isn't anything wrong with him he just doesn't look as good as I thought he would. On a completely different note: I think I might scratch the pointy bits on the sun...

I am aware there are things that need polishing: I definitely need to wrap the handle of the axe in some green stuff so there's some texture (I decided that after it was all glued up... stupid piece of... :( that'll teach me to glue before I have a second pair of eyes take a look) and I need to fill in the underarms... So I'm hoping I'll change my opinion after that, but I don't have high hopes. Maybe a cowering Chaos Marine will change my mind? Who knows, whatever ends up happening I hope I like him better afterwards, otherwise I'll just have to change his weapon to something less awesome, cause I love the body, that turned out great. Maybe a single-handed version of the axe and a storm bolter so you can see his face and stuff...

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What do you think?

I need an honest opinion so please be brutally honest. Don't worry about hurting my feelings- I'm not thrilled with him myself.

AJ​
 

Master Of Asgard

New member
Not as good as your others IMO. The axe does look badass and so do the body and all his extra pieces of equipment. I'm not sure if it's finished so stuff like mould lines and the armour on the back of his leg needing filling in is not so much of an issue. Like you said it needs polishing.
The first thing that struck me about the whole axe pose is that his feet seem very close together and his legs quite straight. It just doesn't seem like a natural body position for this action. It might just be the angle of the 1st photo but I would think for a swing like that you'd need one foot in front of the other and a bit of a wider stance. It is an ambitious posture and a really cool idea, but also a shame that like you say it conceals his face.
As for the sun thing, I don't think it looks great but it is definitely salvageable. I think it's a good image, and you should very carefully trim and file it down, so all the edges are smooth and straight, and so that the sun and it's rays are maybe half as thick as they are now. That way the sword will stand out more and the sun itself will look more subtle, more like it's a thin layer of armour decoration. The wolf howling at the moon looks brilliant by the way.
Hope this helps and one day I'll get some of my own stuff up here so I can get the same treatment!

John
 

Arden Fell

New member
Loving this true scale SW marine, but have a couple of comments.

SW's by their very nature are 'busy' figures with their wolf pelts, flowing locks of hair and runes. I think that you may have gone over the top alittle with the pouches, grenades, extra knives, etc. It's gonna be a hard figure to paint in that pose already without adding all that extra detail.

As for the pose and the axe, I see where master of Asgard is coming from with this, but with a few tweaks the closed foot position could indicate a running attack, you would just have to adjust the two pelt atils on the jumppack to indicate a forward motion (bend them back a little).

Otherwise, it's a pretty decent job. :)
 

AJAX40k

New member
Master of Asgard said:
Not as good as your others IMO. The axe does look badass and so do the body and all his extra pieces of equipment. I'm not sure if it's finished so stuff like mould lines and the armour on the back of his leg needing filling in is not so much of an issue. Like you said it needs polishing.

I agree! I love the axehead, I love the body and I love how all the stuff on his belt has come together to make him look like he's actually carrying a battlefield loadout, but I wasn't so sure about the whole package, so I decided to stick him together and see what I thought before I went through and did all the fancy stuff- hence the unpolished-ness of the mini at this stage. (the backs of the legs were actually an oversight.. I really have NO idea how i missed that >.>)

Master of Asgard said:
The first thing that struck me about the whole axe pose is that his feet seem very close together and his legs quite straight. It just doesn't seem like a natural body position for this action. It might just be the angle of the 1st photo but I would think for a swing like that you'd need one foot in front of the other and a bit of a wider stance. It is an ambitious posture and a really cool idea, but also a shame that like you say it conceals his face.

He is not supposed to be running, he is supposed to be bringing the axe down on someone's head, and his left foot is about to step forward for that little extra oomph to make sure it cleaves those few more inches :) I think that might be a little more clear with the completion of the base- I've decided to pilfer some of my brother's chaos stuff (possibly a berserker, but more likely a traitor guardsman so I don't have to truescale the marine...) and have him cowering on the ground about to get cut in half.
I do have to say that this action takes a little more of a leap, imagination-wise, than I wanted to make it, but I didn't want to risk cutting up the legs- the details on them were just too cool to waste (the wolf-head hipguards could be lost, for instance, when I would reposition his thigh)

Master of Asgard said:
As for the sun thing, I don't think it looks great but it is definitely salvageable. I think it's a good image, and you should very carefully trim and file it down, so all the edges are smooth and straight, and so that the sun and it's rays are maybe half as thick as they are now. That way the sword will stand out more and the sun itself will look more subtle, more like it's a thin layer of armour decoration.

Hmm... I'll try it, I think that might be what the problem is, I just had trouble actually sculpting anything that was that small- it would stick to ANYTHING more readily than the plastic of the shoulder pad, and it was just too damn small to actually sculpt- even with the very tip of an xacto-knife blade. I'm starting to understand why GW uses 3ups rather than just sculpting at scale.
By the way, make sure to tell me when you do post and I'll give it a look.

Arden Fell said:
SW's by their very nature are 'busy' figures with their wolf pelts, flowing locks of hair and runes. I think that you may have gone over the top alittle with the pouches, grenades, extra knives, etc. It's gonna be a hard figure to paint in that pose already without adding all that extra detail.

I wouldn't say that Space Wolves are 'busy' I'd say they are 'detailed'. Busy, to me, is more like this (not to say anything bad about that... it's beautiful and Bennett is a cool guy) than knives, pelts, ammo-pouches, grenades and runes- those are the necessities. Most marines that you see go into battle with nothing on them, just their bolter and their armor. I always preferred making them look like they could fire more than 20 shots before going "well... out of ammo... time to use my bolter as a club!" so, for the most part, I give my marines the equipment they need. This Lord needs a pistol, three pouches of ammo, a couple of grenades, and his helmet. As for the knives... you can never have too many knives! One never knows when one might need them. Regardless, as the Lord he needs to have more detail, more runes, more wolf teeth, more pelts and more impressive gear than anyone else. Hence the runic helm, the big belt, the fancy pistol, the huge axe and the custom shoulder pads. (not to mention being a few mm taller than everyone else) So he's not really over the top... 'Over the top' would be if I started putting a second layer of pouches over the fist, or put a pistol on his ankle, or attached something to his backpack. Filling his belt with important gear isn't so over the top.
I do agree that it might be harder to paint but that is part of the challenge. If I took off all the extra detail just to make it easier to paint, I would be cheating the mini out of some of it's potential just to make it easier on me, which isn't fair in my opinion.

Arden Fell said:
As for the pose and the axe, I see where master of Asgard is coming from with this, but with a few tweaks the closed foot position could indicate a running attack, you would just have to adjust the two pelt atils on the jumppack to indicate a forward motion (bend them back a little).

He's not supposed to be running though, he is dealing a death-blow, stepping forward as he does it. (Imagine chopping wood... only the wood is trying to overthrow your government and slaughter your people by the billions) Again, I think this will be more clear once I get my hands on that poor guardsmen (who will probably be peeing his pants >.>)

Although... at this point... if the pose is questionable and unnatural, he looks less cool than the other wolves, the pose covers his face, etc etc... I think I might just scratch the arms and start over with something a little more workable and natural. I'll give it the week and see how I feel after vacation.

Yeah I know I said I'd be on spring break right now, but plans changed and I have to wait to leave until tomorrow... oh well... it just gives me some more time to work on my Wolves! (of course, I'm putting the lord down for now, I'm just too frustrated with him to deal with that.)

AJ​
 

AJAX40k

New member
Ok... I know he isn't a Space Wolf... but I spent the evening devoted to making this one guy and I actually really like him. He's about a head taller than the other marines I've made, probably because of the different method I've used on the shoes and the little bit extra I gave him in the stomach area. Originally I wanted to sell him... but I don't know yet... maybe if I get a good offer? Regardless it was a good use of my evening and I had a lot of fun :)

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He's made of a few parts from the commander sprue, including the plasma pistol and power fist. The shoulder pads are from Forge World (I got the Space Wolf conversion kit for terminators a few years ago and I held on to the extra pads) The head might be from a Dark Angels sprue that I got at Games Day? I can't be sure...

I don't have a specific chapter in mind for him... I thought afterwards maybe a Salamander... I'd freehand the scale pattern on the cloak rather than trying to retro-sculpt it, put some fire motif on the leg and possibly power fist... hmm... I am kinda liking this idea. I might keep him as a display piece.

Anyway, hope you guys like him. If you are really interested in buying, and you have to have him, send me a PM and we'll see what we can work out.

AJ​
 

Master Of Asgard

New member
He's really cool. Even taller than the others you say? I like what you did with the laurel wreath on the shoulder pad. And yes I agree that the marines should be kitted out to go to war for a long period if time. Makes them look more like real soldiers. (As real as one can get in the 41st Millenium where there is only war.)

It feels a bit silly sometimes, but I find a good way to find out if a pose is going to work or not is to get a broom or something and swing it around. That way you can see what is natural first hand. But yes chopping up those legs would have been a shame.
 

AJAX40k

New member
Master of Asgard said:
He's really cool. Even taller than the others you say? I like what you did with the laurel wreath on the shoulder pad.

Only a bit taller, about half a head... it was mostly to test the plasticard on his feet trick... I found its much, much, much easier than green stuff and much cleaner as well.
I should explain that... The Master of the Forge says that you should pin the legs to the base- I decided I wanted to be able to switch them between 40 and 30mm bases in order to be able to play them as Terminators in regular games of warhammer and fluff marines in friendly games, so while the Master can just sculpt the bottom of the feet to the base easily, I have to sculpt around my magnet and make it flat and normal looking, which is much easier when you just cut out a piece of plasticard.
The laurel was somewhat inspired, if I do say so myself. I was going to put it on his head, but then I decided to put it on the shoulder and I then tried to use a little battle honor in the center but I decided to go with the skull from the Forge World pad cause it fit PERFECTLY in the middle and it made me happy :)


Master of Asgard said:
And yes I agree that the marines should be kitted out to go to war for a long period if time. Makes them look more like real soldiers. (As real as one can get in the 41st Millenium where there is only war.)

Regular marines tend to look silly with as much kit as I like to give them, they look encumbered, which is part of the reason I like the truescale guys so much- they have that extra room that you need to give them equipment without it looking silly

Master of Asgard said:
It feels a bit silly sometimes, but I find a good way to find out if a pose is going to work or not is to get a broom or something and swing it around. That way you can see what is natural first hand. But yes chopping up those legs would have been a shame.

I... actually do that all the time... I did do it for the Lord, I had my room mate do it for the Lord as well (so I could see it form 3rd person perspective) and I decided that sacrificing the detail on the legs was not worth the extra sense of reality that changing the pose would achieve.

@Mickc22: You should! I got my bitz off eBay. But if you have the cash I would just buy a Tactical squad and 2 squads of Terminator Assault marines (for a total of 10 of each)- all the extra bitz you get from the packs is worth it and lets you have so much extra detail without having to scrape stuff together. Anything you don't use you can then put on eBay!

AJ​
 
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Rugne

New member
Really, really nice work there mate, I'm sure that's going to get some wows on the gaming table, rule wise, have you considered the movie marine rules that came out a few years ago? A lot of fun to play with :D

Marc
 

AJAX40k

New member
Really, really nice work there mate, I'm sure that's going to get some wows on the gaming table, rule wise, have you considered the movie marine rules that came out a few years ago? A lot of fun to play with :D

Marc

Read backward in the thread, I've written my own rules. The movie marines rules are neither tailored to Space Wolves, nor very much in the spirit of the 40k universe in my opinion. I also don't really like the whole "action hero" nonsense that goes along with them...

AJ​
 

wargamer43210

New member
That is a great looking marine. I really like the look of the cloak too. I've tried cloaks a couple of times and have had nothing but trouble trying to get them to look right. Any tips on how you shaped that one to flow without being pressed against the model?
 

AJAX40k

New member
That is a great looking marine. I really like the look of the cloak too. I've tried cloaks a couple of times and have had nothing but trouble trying to get them to look right. Any tips on how you shaped that one to flow without being pressed against the model?

Well... this is my first attempt at a cloak, it was moderately successful in my opinion but it could use some improvement... I wish it was thicker and wider. But if you like it this way:

I made this one by putting some petroleum jelly down on the table, taking a large amount of green stuff and making it into a square, then smooshing the square down until it was flat (really flat). The next part is kinda tricky: cut out the shape you want (make sure it's smaller near the top and wider near the bottom)- the reason this is tricky is that its difficult to judge the right size for the model, plus whenever you cut, no matter how much petroleum jelly is all over the knife and green stuff it will always stick and pull and deform the cape. The trick is not to just pull straight up, but to try and separate the two as close to the table as you can. Then pull the cape away from the table carefully and slowly, making sure not to deform the shape you just cut out.

Once you have the shape its a matter of fitting it to the model and making it look like its flowing. Just imagine a cape blowing in the wind- or look it up- and have it doing some of the stuff you see. Again, if you need or want pictures I can make another cape- my Wolves could use a few wolf pelts here and there.

Hope that helps, good luck! Post some pictures if you do give it a try.

AJ​
 

wargamer43210

New member
Thanks for the tips! I'll have to give it a try! I've never tried using petroleum jelly to work with green stuff. Are you using it for other sculpting too? How do you clean it off of the figure before painting?

Well... this is my first attempt at a cloak, it was moderately successful in my opinion but it could use some improvement... I wish it was thicker and wider. But if you like it this way:

A bigger square not smashed quite so flat should give a thicker, wider cloak. One that hooks just behind each shoulder pad a flows under the backpack would look really cool.

For wolf pelts we'll have to add a few steps of detailing after the base design drys. :)
 

AJAX40k

New member
Thanks for the tips! I'll have to give it a try! I've never tried using petroleum jelly to work with green stuff. Are you using it for other sculpting too? How do you clean it off of the figure before painting?

I use it basically all the time- it makes the green stuff more pliable, easier to sculpt, it doesn't stick to anything, and it leaves a shinier, smoother surface on anything you sculpt. I don't clean it off, but I rarely prime GS'ed models less than a month after I finish them, cause I always end up sculpting in the winter and priming in the summer.

Also I usually mix the petroleum jelly while I'm mixing the blue and yellow, I don't know if that makes that much of a difference but it might. Nor do I use very much.

A bigger square not smashed quite so flat should give a thicker, wider cloak. One that hooks just behind each shoulder pad a flows under the backpack would look really cool.

A bigger square smashed not so flat looks odd because the edges tend to taper a little too much... I don't know how to avoid that. I also tried to do the "behind each shoulder pad" thing, but that's something you have to plan ahead for >.> I did not. I put that guy together in about 4 hours and did not plan ahead at all, the whole thing was on the fly.

For wolf pelts we'll have to add a few steps of detailing after the base design drys.

Yeah! I think the best fur I've ever seen is Victoria's Winged Boar. It's nice and fluffy, nice and time-consuming, and turns out to look totally realistic, plus it would be really easy to build off of that thin cape (not to mention wolf pelts would probably be an irregular shape and the skin would be much thinner than the actual fur, which makes that thin cape method ideal)

I am back from my week vacation! I learned how to ski :) but now I am going to start up my project again, I got some bitz from my brother and a request to make a true-scale chaos sorcerer, so hopefully that will be finished by the end of the week. I'll take some pictures as I go.

AJ​
 
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