Trying to improve and try in paint styles

[Aliengod3]

I am trying to improve and I wanted to get an idea of what people see most commonly in top rated minis? Also, I am trying to break away from my normal comic book style and want to try other styles. What is a good way to get color to be less saturated, adding greys? Thanks

 

[Jazz is for losers]

Personally I always really liked your style since I saw your Trollblood, I think I was going through a Hordes phase at the time. I see it as a traditional 'eavy metal style done really well. What you're asking for is pretty vague though. If you want to try a whole new look I'd reccomend getting the Miniature Mentor sub and downloading all those vids (been thinking of trying this myself, I've never really tried anything new since I used to read WD years ago. I don't know any painters, I think the only way I can get better is to try something like MM). Or maybe try the OllieKickflip style, he has a great tutorial over on the Reaper forums iirc.

 

[Einion]

What is a good way to get color to be less saturated, adding greys?

Yep, that's one of the ways. Overall it's perhaps the most versatile single method (although there's no reason to use only one) however many people find it a little more difficult to control than they expected. So if you want slightly duller add a little grey to the colour, if you want very dull add colour to the grey; plus, don't expect a 1:1 mix to be half as dull as you started with, it won't always work out that way.

Another thing to watch out for is the occasional colour shifts - principally with yellows and oranges, which will tend to go slightly greenish.

Excluding this and using complements in various ways you can also just start with duller colours (plenty available among the hobby paints). And another main way of getting unsaturated colours is to mix directly for it - so instead of mixing green with yellow and blue for example you might use yellow and black, perhaps even an ochre and black if you want to go very dull etc.

Einion

 

[skeeve]

Adding gray is a possibility and it has its uses. You can also try adding browns or adding complementary colors. In addition you can try dark filters (aka glazes). Which "dark" depends on what color you are putting them over, again, brown, gray or very dark blue work well. In all frankness though, I think you are painting at the top level already and in your case it will diversify you style rather then "improve" techniques.

 

[Aliengod3]

You are correct, I want to be more versatile. That is a better way to explain my thoughts about improvement. As for the miniature mentor videos I have a couple and I use the concepts discussed in them (i.e. diluted paint, etc.) however even when I do this I end up with the same results! It does not make any sense. I have checked out the olliekickflip tutorial and I have also had a painting session with him where we discussed paint methods and application but I end up with the same results regardless of paint application and methods, very strange...

As for common things I see in top rated minis, I was thinking along the lines of adding character to minis, such as textured clothing, textured skin, blood stains, using complementary colors for shading, and other similar details that give a mini more life. I saw a real good example of this which inspired my desire to really push myself. Yellow One has a dwarf bolt thrower and crew that has minute detail up the yin yang!

http://coolminiornot.com/239537

I guess I want to learn more about how to paint with less saturation. Any tips are appreciated Also thank you for the help so far! I am going to try out some of your great suggestions.

 

[freakinacage]

i like your work as it is

 

[dauber22]

Using compliments,split compliments, white, black,browns or grays will all help desaturate your colors. A little experimenting can lead to some wonderful surprises and colors you never considered before.I actually really enjoy playing with mixing colors and have been known to "waste" considerable amounts of paint just playing around.
That being said, I agree with the esteemed Mr. InACage: I like your stuff just the way it is.

 

[automaton]

Hi Damian, I'll answer your question here rather than by PM.

You said you don't want 'comic book minis'; at the same time, I wouldn't recommend going too neutral with all your colours, because it can make the minis become a bit boring...takes away some of the impact, and I think impact is important for fantsay-style figures. Instead, I think it's better to aim for a balance between more neutral colours, set against a couple of quite saturated colours. So you might choose 1 or 2 very bright or strong colours at the start, and construct the rest of the colour scheme around those, using more neutral versions of complementary colours to provide a balance. This sort of scheme avoidsd the 'comic book' colour clash, I think, because it doesn't use too many strong colours; at the same time, you can use some strong colour to create visual impact for the figure.

As far as the technical aspect goes, well I personally don't actually add grey very often...I'm more likely just to start with a less intense paint to beign with, and work the colour from there by mixing. But in effect that's the same - whether you add grey, or start with a pre-mixed paint colour that is more neutral, amounts to nearly the same thing, after all (except of course that with the pre-mixed paint pot you know what you're going to get before you start mixing!). I do think it's important to use the very very saturated colours quite sparingly, though...in my opinion, the most saturated area belongs in the mid-to-light part of the surface, while the shadows and extreme highlights become less saturated version of that hue.

Does that make sense?

 

[Aliengod3]

Instead, I think it's better to aim for a balance between more neutral colours, set against a couple of quite saturated colours. So you might choose 1 or 2 very bright or strong colours at the start, and construct the rest of the colour scheme around those, using more neutral versions of complementary colours to provide a balance. This sort of scheme avoidsd the 'comic book' colour clash, I think, because it doesn't use too many strong colours; at the same time, you can use some strong colour to create visual impact for the figure.

Is this sort of the idea you used with Grakkha?


Thanks for your support Dauber and Freak

 

[Einion]

You are correct, I want to be more versatile. That is a better way to explain my thoughts about improvement. As for the miniature mentor videos I have a couple and I use the concepts discussed in them (i.e. diluted paint, etc.) however even when I do this I end up with the same results! It does not make any sense.

Something to consider then, try doing a couple of minis in a completely different style to your normal stuff - deliberately mix colours in new ways, add excessive amounts of 'texturing' or colour variation, weathering and edge wear, dirt and grime.

If you do a couple like that, where you know you're taking it to extremes, it should be easier to break out of your normal 'mode', compared with just trying to tweak your current methods. It might be a good idea to try this in a larger scale than you usually work in, the larger canvas can help break one out of normal painting habits. Might also help if they're historical models.

Then rein in back in a bit and you should be painting in a different way.

Alternatively, try this: paint a mini without thinking about it, then put it aside for a couple of days or a week. Now pull it out, look at it afresh and add to it with additional detail and texturing, glazes to tweak the colour here and there, and weathering. I started doing this a few years ago to make my paintwork a little more intricate and it worked for me; I'd never do enough in one go to get quite as detailed as I wanted to go at the time. Partly this was a form of laziness and fear of messing up, but after a break I found I was much less precious about all the paint on the figure already than when I'd just completed it.

There is a danger with this in going too far - you have to consider sometimes if you're adding detail for the sake of adding detail (it's fun apart from anything!) rather than because it's actually helping the end result be better.

I guess I want to learn more about how to paint with less saturation. Any tips are appreciated

Unfortunately I don't think there are any neutral greys available in hobby paints (at least not a set in different values) but you can mix your own fairly simply. The route is to use white + black with a little brown to reduce the blueness (usually this is an umber but use what you have available - nearly any dark brown will do the job okay). It's a lot of work but many people who've done it report that the effort is well worth it since you get a lot of experience by doing it, in addition to having the paint available at the end of the day of course.

Truly neutral greys aren't absolutely necessary to use for dulling down colours but they help avoid some unintended colour shifts.

Mixing complements are another route but it's not a simple area and overall I think split complements are a better bet at the end of the day; however it's a lot of extra effort every time you mix, especially when you're new to doing it. I would recommend trying it if only because sometimes it's the best way of neutralising certain colours (yellows for example, oranges sometimes too).

Mixing directly for a duller colour is the simplest mixing route, if you have the paints available; just using duller colours straight from the bottle is of course the very simplest way. But both may involve buying more paint, when greys and complementary mixing are definitely available with whatever your current palette is.

Einion

 

[Einion]

Neutral greys

For anyone that wants to try using greys but is put off by the thought of mixing them, you can buy them. Unfortunately most fluid paints have only a single value of neutral grey available, if at all; of the ones I know of Tri-Art, Liquitex and Americana all have only one. The only full range I think is available in acrylics is this from Golden, in their heavy-body range. So a lot of diluting would be needed but it would save time mixing from scratch, with the assurance they're perfectly neutral... and it'll work out tons cheaper than starting with any hobby paint, which are hugely expensive at the end of the day.

Einion

 

[Aliengod3]

Thanks Einion. I am working on a couple of models now where I am just practicing different types of textures (for my trollblood army) such as tartans, thick weave cloth, ripping, etc. and it is coming along nicely.

I think I will also start looking for some less saturated paints too. I know vallejo has a bunch however I find vallejo paints very difficult to dilute properly.

 

[Elly3438]

Damian, I love your stuff, but it's good to see you wanting to improve and branch out, instead of sticking to the same ole usual. I look forward to seeing what new techniques and such you add to your minis!
Great info as usual Einion and Auto~
~Jeff~

 

[Joek]

I'm another big fan of the way you paint your figures Damian, but it's definitely a good thing to try something different - it's one of the hardest things to do though - after years of painting in a particular style, I find it terribly tough to not fall back into my usual practises!

I suggest dry-brushing everything in white

25 years ago, this is what I did with everything!

 

[BPI]

Hi AlienGod3, advice I've been given before when asking similar question was to get out of my comfort zone. 54mm military historical, pick a nice model & paint it to look real. No Fantasy extremes or tricks, just naturalistic, historically accurate paint. Or stretch yourself away from paint. A nice vehicle scene can have mucho weathering & mud. Chance to work with pastels/oils/powders & build your skills up with different materials.

On a smaller level, you mention painting tartan on Trollbloods. Be sure not to paint a generic tutorial tartan. Actually take the time to pick a real one & then reproduce it well enough to be recognizable by members of the local Scots society!

Good luck :good:

Cheers, B.