[UK] Government pay-per-use car taxation petition

[noneedforaname]

we could always get you a trike lol

personally I say balls to global warming, Im looking forward to the next ice age, I love snow lol

Because that is what will happen, its called global correction the planet is constantly doing this. Look at the global tempretures over the millenia (these have been assesed from deep ice core samples) there is a constant rise and fall of tempreture from ice age to buggering hot.

There is a school of thought that we are simply reaching the top of the rise from the last ice age, as sson as the ice caps will melt the \'salt elevator\' system will stop, causing the gulf stream to stop warming the uk artificially and we will end up with a climate like canada.

Therefore no flooding (new ice in northern europe will soak this up) or mass heat rise in northern europe.

See we can all just go out buy some ski\'s and stop caring about global warming.

As for tax, just stop paying it

 

[Dammekkos2]

Originally posted by Trevor
Trouble is that something needs to be done about the massive overuse of motor vehicles. Anything that reduces cars on the road is a good thing, global warming is going to cost billions and something needs to be done NOW.
Our current lifestyle is simply unsustainable and we are in serious trouble. We need to change our wasteful society, complaining about it won\'t make it go away and just because we have been able to fritter our natural resources and damage our environment in the past does not mean we will be able to in the future. A little pain now, could prevent catastrophe.
...
Ideally, there should be a government scheme that allows you to trade your gas guzzling car for a green, solar powered one.

Indeed, there isn\'t a remote chance of me signing this petition, although some aspects of this proposal aren\'t my cup of tea (like tracking, but they do that already with mobile phones). And tbh, I think \"non-working mothers\" should be charged £186 for the monthly \"school run\". I walked to school most days.

 

[noneedforaname]

The trouble is this will simply be a greater incentive for less people to work rather than make people work. A family will eventually realise that if neither of them work then not only will they not have to pay the tax they will in fact have a taxi laid on for there child by the social services.

This is part of labours strategy to remain in power.

1)Make people dumb and unemployable so they have to rely on welfare.

2)Those that have avoided labours education, education, education are being given greater benefit incentives not to work.

3)Labour employs vast amounts of civil servants on a par with soviet russia.

This means large swathes of the population are dependant on labour staying in power to maintain there current lifestyles.

Labour have bought there votes.

The side effect of this is those of us who want to work are squeezed with a ever growing tax burden.

These people will either leave the country (like they are doing) or decide they are better off not working.

When the working population decreases to a critical point the whole economy will collapse, the country will be bankrupt and the UK will be reduced to a third world economy.

This will happen a lot sooner than global warming, so what is the greater threat to society global warming or labour?

 

[War Griffon]

Maybe the Greens/PC Brigade can blame global warming on the motorist but what about industry who pump thousands tons of noxious gases ect into the atmosphere daily and get away scott free.

As soon as you mention global warming everybody blames motorists...I seem to recall reading somewhere a while back a paper that stated \"That despite the increase in the number of people using cars the Co2 emitions levels from cars have actually decreased\" And this apparently took into account older cars and not just the newer ones.

On the other hand I am all in favour of charging those that use 4 x 4\'s around the town/city and for school runs extra after all most of these don\'t even see off road in the UK unless they accidently run over the flower bed and are just a status symbol by out of work mothers.

 

[noneedforaname]

Apparentl in los angeles the air quality is improving as more cars come onto there streets with catalytic converters.

The engine takes in the polluted air as part of the combustion process, the pollutants pass through the engine without being combusted and the catalytic converter then mop\'s up these pollutants, giving out cleaner emissions out the back than what went in the front.

See cars can be good for the enviroment.

 

[Infidel Castro]

Originally posted by generulpoleaxe
this is what every one gets for voting in labour.

I disagree. This party has as much resemblance to socialism as my arse does to Keith Chegwin\'s face. On second thoughts, maybe a bad comparison :moon:

And as to the issue itself, I\'m a cyclist. My lady, however, has a nice red Nissan. With the council tax increases (84% in the last decade on average) and British Gas putting up prices again even on the back of a fall in energy costs, we\'re in a position where people are feeling the pinch in a big way. Add to that the fact that interest rates have gone up, the bottom line is that we\'re right in the shite in the UK. Furthermore, the Orwellian nightmare is poised to overrun us. That freaks me out big time. I\'ve signed it because of that more than anything else.

 

[johnboyjjb]

Originally posted by wiccanpony
well I would sign if I could......damn! what will they tax next.. sex,

German brothels are now taxed quite heavily if I remember the article correctly

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by johnboyjjb

Originally posted by wiccanpony
well I would sign if I could......damn! what will they tax next.. sex,

German brothels are now taxed quite heavily if I remember the article correctly

That\'s because they\'re legal, so they have to add VAT like any other business...

 

[Evil Dave]

So let me get this straight.
I assume you pay sales tax when you buy the vehicle, and you also pay tax on the fuel for the vehicle.
Now they want you to pay a tax to use something that you have already bought and paid taxes on?

Isn\'t that comparable to GW charging you a fee every time you dip your brush into a pot of paint you\'ve already bought?

 

[Highbulp Billy]

One of the points I find hard to accept is reconciling the fact that the Government say commuters should use trains and are raising the cost of car use to encourage that but, on the other hand, train companies are saying that too many people are using peak trains and so they are raising prices to try and discourage usage! Wouldn\'t it be a good idea to ensure there is suitable alternative transport before pricing everyone off the raod?

Also, is the return of Robin Hood to our screens and these increased taxes just a coincidence?

 

[Chern Ann]

I think this system is similar to something we have in Singapore, where we\'ve had similar devices installed for years.

They work a little differently however, and are basically electronic gantryless tolls that automatically identify the car and deduct the toll from the prepaid card slotted into the reader at specific gantries only. This system was allegedly studied for use to control traffic into London but I believe they went with a different system that recognises car number plates instead.

A GPS system that tracks car position at all times I\'d say is a serious breach of privacy, it\'s equivalent to having a policeman following you all the time and monitoring where you go. This kind of data can be made to look like anything when supplied with a context. I\'d be surprised if anyone would put up with that, beyond the $$$ complaints.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by Evil Dave
So let me get this straight.
I assume you pay sales tax when you buy the vehicle, and you also pay tax on the fuel for the vehicle.
Now they want you to pay a tax to use something that you have already bought and paid taxes on?

Unfortunately these laws are already being discussed here in the United States as well....

Usage road tax is going to happen here at some point....IE...You would have to pay taxes on the amount of miles you drive every month.

Like you say Dave...we ALREADY pay taxes on buying the car (sales tax) yearly usage (licensing and registration fees), gas taxes (the amount of \'tax\' money on Gasoline is obsene), your property taxes go to fund the roads (amongst many other things)....

The big new \'tax\' here in America is the sneaky little \'1 cent option sales tax\'. So for every dollar you spend, another penny is added to the normal sales tax to help fund things like roads & schools (which SHOULD have already been paid for by the general fund)....

Here in my town, they have added 2 cents as the \'local option\' tax. (one cent per dollar for the schools, one cent for the roads). These \'taxes\' were only supposed to last 5 years...but already they have been extended.

New taxes are rarely repealed. If you don\'t fight like hell to stop them, you may as well plan on paying for it for the rest of your life (and then some because of the \'inheritance tax).

I believe the Boston Tea Party was over a 3 percent tax....(i\'m saying we should all REVOLT!)

 

[karoath]

Sigh

Yet more redistribution of the wealth... socialism at its best. Since when does the government know more about how you should use your money than you? I am always sickened to hear when people agree that the government should make laws regarding how and when people can do the ordinary things in life, who should get more money than others, and quite simply how we should lead our lives. It is frightening to see freedom surrendered so easily. As with new taxes, freedom surrendered is not easily reclaimed. Having studied the US tax code (I am sure that the UK tax code is worse), I\'ve noticed it is quite clearly a form of social and cultural engineering. A person needs to be very careful about permitting their government to claim such power. So even though I am not from the UK, I\'d strongly encourage people to from the UK to sign the petition... unless of course you feel that the government should tell you how and when you are allowed to drive your vehicle, thereby controlling your life and telling you what is best for you.

 

[matty1001]

Originally posted by Dragonsreach

Originally posted by matty1001

But...you could always just get a bike.

Matty That is a very patronising and somewhat insulting comment. I travel 40 miles each way to work. A bike (or motorcycle) is out of the question as I have been instructed by my doctors that as my balance mechanism is so damaged that I would be a Liability and dangerous (as well as uninsurable).

Then 2 post later I explained that i was meaning for inner city travel.
Plus that some circumstances will require a car, such as Finn18\'s load and distance, Wargriffons distance and your balance.

 

[Dammekkos2]

Originally posted by karoath
Yet more redistribution of the wealth... socialism at its best. Since when does the government know more about how you should use your money than you? I am always sickened to hear when people agree that the government should make laws regarding how and when people can do the ordinary things in life, who should get more money than others, and quite simply how we should lead our lives. It is frightening to see freedom surrendered so easily. As with new taxes, freedom surrendered is not easily reclaimed. Having studied the US tax code (I am sure that the UK tax code is worse), I\'ve noticed it is quite clearly a form of social and cultural engineering. A person needs to be very careful about permitting their government to claim such power. So even though I am not from the UK, I\'d strongly encourage people to from the UK to sign the petition... unless of course you feel that the government should tell you how and when you are allowed to drive your vehicle, thereby controlling your life and telling you what is best for you.

Yes, it\'s all about the individual isn\'t it? I wish everyone had the same sense of entitlement as yourself, what a wonderful society we\'d be living in if that were the case.

 

[noneedforaname]

Yes it is all about the individual, we have a biological imperative to survive and pass on our genes.

It\'s this biological imperative that makes capital and corporal punishment such an effective deterrant.

If we lived in a society where everyone was self less and though of the whole we would all be dead.

We would all be rushing to kill ourselves so that everybody else had enough food, water, air etc.

When was the last time the entire human race committed mass suicide?

It\'s our need to survive that actually creates society, we form alliances with others to strengthen our survival chances. This is the enviroment where people work hard and strive to suceed. The greater the cost of failure the greater the reward of success.

Socialism and the re-distribution of wealth would destroy our society, there would be no imperative to work as i\'ll get the same anyway. As soon as everyone takes that attitude the socio-economic structure of that group collapses.

Unfortunately this is what labour is reducing us to, there is an ever growing reduction in the rewards to work and we see our society falling apart, crime rising, unemployment rising, standards of education falling, health service disappearing.

Perhaps its time for some people to start kicking a little ass?

 

[Swordwind]

This is ironic as the book I\'m currently reading is \"Twelve Days\", about the 12 day Hungarian revolution that threw out the Soviet government that had been controlling every aspect of thier lives. A bunch of civilians with rifles and petrol bombs did it alone!

Then the commies sent more tanks into Budapest than the Axis sent into all of Russia in WW2...

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by noneedforaname
It\'s this biological imperative that makes capital and corporal punishment such an effective deterrant.

That is quite thoroughly proven false...

 

[noneedforaname]

how is it wrong anyone who has received capital punishment has never re-offended.

As for corporal punishment whats more likely to stop someone re-offending lashes or a cuddle and ask them nicely if they would perhaps think about maybe not doing it again.

The current problem is everyone in this country can now say corporal punishment won\'t work now its not being used.

Criminals may say it wouldnt stop them, they only say that because they know it wont happen because every criminal knows his rights.

Make a few examples and crime would fall drastically, it will never stop crime as there are habitual criminals by pscychological and social reasons.

 

[Ritual]

Crime rates (of crimes punishable by death) in countries with capital punishment are generally higher or equally high as in countries without. There\'s been many studies all over the world on the preventive effects of capital punishment and there seem to be no evidence of such an effect. Some studies even suggests that capital punishment has the opposite effect. I have no links, and I don\'t intend to look for any, but I\'m sure you can find some for yourself if you wish to.